Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)

[BluesRule]

What if Charlie and Harry have formed a decent forward combo at years end?

Do we take Lukosius then?

I think we see what we are offered in live trading on draft day (or before). Could net a lot of picks by swapping #1 to say Brisbane Collingwood STK Adelaide or Port who would all want him. Leaving us to get the midfielders we really really need.

On the assumption that Harry and Charlie are really looking good by then...

 

[Cutz]

There hasn't been enough heat put on Steven Silvagni for his poor recruitment of mature players. SOS has been right to bring in more experienced bodies whilst our draftees develop, its the quality of the ins that has been very disappointing:

Poor Choice:
Sam Kerridge
Andrew Phillips
Liam Sumner
Daniel Gorringe
Billie Smedts
Rhys Palmer
Matthew Lobbe
Matt Shaw

Jury still out Choice:
Jed Lamb
Lachie Plowman
Jarrod Pickett
Alex Silvagni
Matt Kennedy
Darcy Lang
Aaron Mullett
Cam O'Shea

Great Choice:
Matthew Wright
Caleb Marchbank

For me the reason we have gone backwards has been the mature players we have brought in have been so poor. And when you look around at some of the mature bodies that got picked up cheap over the past few years, Tim Kelly, Bayley Fritsch, Tom Stewart, Willie Rioli, Sam Murray - you have to ask the question if SOS has been covering the State Leagues well enough?

 

[mario bortallotto]

No, I wouldn't !!

I'd throw a 'measured, not obscene' amount of money at certain players we have identified as being beneficial to our cause and most importantly, genuinely want to come to us to be a part of the big picture.

There not going to be banging on our door asking too come in !! . I’m big on free agent because cash is better to go overs on than picks at present time.we have cash and very few A/B grade players (young developing players excluded) a lets wait on natural progression approach is crap and delusional. Decent free agent mid are very few this year 4-5 .. we need one now .

so what do you think getting a wines for example should cost ....

 

[Cutz]

I reckon sos has done an amazing job with what he had to deal with. Our list was pathetic.

Totally agree Soap...Stop for a second and think we were at with our list when Malthouse walked out....There was zero prospects and very little if any improvement in the list as whole.

Least now we live and we look forward to players improving, and we get in some games these 5-10 minute glimpses of what the future may look like. These glimpses impress me no end.

I feel like our drafting and trading has gone to a new level & as our kids improve we'll see kids that join the list improve quicker in a more established system and an improved team synergy.

SOS has been awesome. Looking forward to what he and his new mates are going to deliver towards the end of this year.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Taranto, DeGoey and Gaff would be ideal.
Oh... and to keep our first this year and next

I'd have pick 1 on the table for Taranto. He's that good already and has a massive engine for a 2nd year mid.

 

[Jimmae]

List is taking shape apart from another 5 A graders.

RFA + trade to get two in + BSOS + Hickmott + 2 other kids will do me.

I would dangle first pick for the right player...and that player is Tim Taranto + pick 16 on a stupid front ended 7 year contract

tfw your recruitment strategy is delusional, and written on the back of a napkin:

 

[Coops93]

These pictures are probably a strong indication of our issues at the moment, and give some hope for the future:

It's been identified before, weakness in the middle age bracket, but to see it displayed like that is stark.

 

[pinot]

2015

Sam Kerridge + Pick 28 for Troy Menzel

Pick 8 + Plowman + Lamb + Phillips + Sumner for Pick 28 + 77 + 95 + 2016 first round pick

Pick 11 + 2016 third round pick for Pick 20 + 21

Pick 19 for Chris Yarran

2016 first round pick for Lachie Henderson

Pick 21 + Pick 60 for Tom Bell + Pick 41

Chris Judd - retired
Andrew Carrazzo - retired
David Ellard - retired
Cameron Giles + Blaine Johnson + Fraser Russell + Matthew Watson + Tom Fields + Nick Holman + Brad Walsh + Robbie Warnock delisted


Draft

Pick 1 - Jacob Weitering
Pick 10 - Harry McKay
Pick 12 - Charlie Curnow
Pick 23 - David Cunningham
Pick 53 - Jack Silvagni



2016

Billie Smedts + 2017 first round pick + Pick 63 for Zach Tuohy + 2017 second round pick
Caleb Marchbank + Jarrod Picket + 2017 second round pick for Pick 45 + pick 58 + Geelongs 2017 first round pick
Rhys Palmer for Pick 135
Pick 48 + 66 + 70 for GWS 2017 2nd round pick

Andrew Walker - retired
Cameron Wood - retired
Matthew Dick + Jayden Foster + Clem Smith + Andrejs Everitt + Billy Gowers + Jason Tutt + Dillon Rainbow + Mark Whiley delisted


Draft

Pick 6 - SPS
Pick 27 - Zac Fisher
Pick 47 - Harrison Macreadie
Pick 59 - Cameron Polsen
Pick 61 - Tom Williamson
Pick 65 - Patrick Kerr

2017

Pick 10 + Pick 16 + Pick 73 + 2018 second round pick for Bryce Gibbs + 2018 2nd round pick + 2018 3rd round pick + pick 77
Matthew Lobbe for Pick 95
Pick 28 + Pick 30 + 2018 second round pick for Pick 16 + Pick 40
Darcy Lang + 2018 4th round pick for pick 58 + 2018 4th round pick
Matthew Kennedy for Pick 28

Dennis Armfield - retired
Kristian Jaksch + Liamn Sumner + Andrew Gallucci + Daniel Gorringe + Matthew Korcheck + Dylan Buckley + Rhys Palmer + Cieran Sheehan + Simon White + Blaine Boeckhorst + Billie Smedts delisted

Draft

3 - Paddy Dow
10 - Lochie Obrien
30 - Tom DeKoning
70 - Angus Schumacher
78 - Jarrod Pickett



I don't think anyone can fathom what a big job SOS had to do with this list. I in fact grade him A+

If you pay careful attention he turned Bryce Gibbs into Lochie Obrien + Matthew Kennedy + Tom Dekoning

There are not many more obvious delistings to go. I have absolute no problem with such courage, smarts and testinal fortitude considering rhe massive task at hand.

 

[norway blue]

List Management & recruitment isn't an exact science so there will be mistakes, the good operators seem to make less of them. Nothing to gain by admitting errors, just move on & rectify the issue and keep sticking to the plan.

As for State League players ?? I see no reason as to why the club shouldn't be putting them all under the microscope and assessing if any of them could graduate to AFL level. Whilst you would expect it to be a lower number who would come into consideration, it would be naïve & irresponsible to completely ignore that sector of players.

Agree. TBH I hope we are top of the ladder re number of scouts .


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[norway blue]

Some of the best players are dickheads.

Toby green . Although I could be wrong. Maybe he’s a nice guy off the paddock .


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[norway blue]

I have always lived by the theory of "NO COLLINGWOOD" at Carlton. Has NEVER worked and I don't want them anywhere near us. I don't care how good. Same with Essendon

The one off half back was great for us. But I gets ya .


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[norway blue]

I think we see what we are offered in live trading on draft day (or before). Could net a lot of picks by swapping #1 to say Brisbane Collingwood STK Adelaide or Port who would all want him. Leaving us to get the midfielders we really really need.

On the assumption that Harry and Charlie are really looking good by then...

Good call. I think how we go second half will dictate who we get. Like it .


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[King Cripps]

I think we see what we are offered in live trading on draft day (or before). Could net a lot of picks by swapping #1 to say Brisbane Collingwood STK Adelaide or Port who would all want him. Leaving us to get the midfielders we really really need.

On the assumption that Harry and Charlie are really looking good by then...

The Harry and Charlie combo is looking very positive what if either the Crows or Port are prepared to pay their weight in gold to get the number 1 pick, example the Crows offer us one of the Crouch brothers and their first rounder this year and their first rounder next year.
I know I am dreaming aren't i

 

[Chookie]

Totally agree Soap...Stop for a second and think we were at with our list when Malthouse walked out....There was zero prospects and very little if any improvement in the list as whole.

Least now we live and we look forward to players improving, and we get in some games these 5-10 minute glimpses of what the future may look like. These glimpses impress me no end.

Yep couldn’t agree more. And IMO this is why our rebuild has taken longer than expected. Bolton/SOS inherited an old list and as you mentioned there was very little in the way of talent coming through the ranks Cripps aside. It’s a pretty bad position to be in from a list management perspective because the only way forward is the draft, its not like you can trade players out as so few had currency or value.

IMO this is a key reason as well as to why you cant compare our rebuild with other clubs. I dont think there has been a club that has had to turnover their list as much as we have to get to our current position. I read the other day where we have had 42 individual list changes in three years, would be highly surprised if another club has had more.

On a positive note at least now there is plenty of upside.

 

[F_therest]

Yep couldn’t agree more. And IMO this is why our rebuild has taken longer than expected. Bolton/SOS inherited an old list and as you mentioned there was very little in the way of talent coming through the ranks Cripps aside. It’s a pretty bad position to be in from a list management perspective because the only way forward is the draft, its not like you can trade players out as so few had currency or value.

IMO this is a key reason as well as to why you cant compare our rebuild with other clubs. I dont think there has been a club that has had to turnover their list as much as we have to get to our current position. I read the other day where we have had 42 individual list changes in three years, would be highly surprised if another club has had more.

On a positive note at least now there is plenty of upside.

Yep which is why I'm many respects, we can only really hope to start to climb the ladder next year.

End of this year is essentially the end of the 'rebuild' and it's about developing and pushing up the ladder from there.

The message has been consistent from the club this whole time...the big list cuts are over, we have the talent now it's about development and building synergy.

We won't be trading valuable senior players for draft picks anymore...if anything we will be trading draft picks for senior players.

 

[Soapy V]

The one off half back was great for us. But I gets ya .


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If it was between 2000-2014 it has no relevance. That period is stricken from any memory

 

[Soapy V]

We need genuine hardness it’s as simple as that . We’ve added some highly skilled players through the draft , outside of Cripps they are nicely skilled complimentary players. p

Not sure it's an issue going forward. Cripps Kennedy Jones Williamson Dow SPS McKay Charlie Silvagni Charlie etc are all hard characters IMO

 

[Soapy V]

Don’t rate Dalhaus very much dosent get very high numbers and handballs too much I know that Hall goes missing every now and then but he gets high 20’s and 30’s when on and kicks goals breaks lines.

I think if you could get Dalhaus for around $600k a year over 3-4 years I would do it. Fits age we need, can kick a goal and play mid and is a tough nut. Costs nothing in terms of trade and picks. I'd do it

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

No we most certainly do not. I'm of the school of thought that our forward possibilities are starting to look great. Harry looks good with a whole heap of development in front of him. Think what this kid is going to look like with another 30-40 games in him, and another 7-10 kilos on his frame. Not saying he's going to be Tom Lynch...but I think he's gonna make opposition defenders feel very edgy... Dont need to make any comment on Charles...He just speaks for himself really. But when you factor in improvement in him as well...the whole set up is starting to look Franklin-Roughead-esque. ..Maybe I'm dreaming !!! ; )

We need Mids...END OF STORY. Big bodied, users of the ball who make good decisions. Ability to defend and run and spread is a must. Run and Spread will come as tanks develop no doubt...But these prospects need high football IQ...

These players are there...and they're not just high draft picks like Rankine or Walsh. As mentioned previously by another poster if our new talent acquisition team translates into better draft day performance improvement will logically follow.

Maybe not immediately....but it will.

I agree with you in a way although Buddy and Roughead combined for 113 goals in their third seasons so we are abit behind. One thing I think we lack just as much as we do midfielders is players who are natural goal kickers. If Lukosius is best available than we absolutely need him. We still have plenty of ways to bring in midfielders

 

[Soapy V]

I agree with you in a way although Buddy and Roughead combined for 113 goals in their third seasons so we are abit behind. One thing I think we lack just as much as we do midfielders is players who are natural goal kickers. If Lukosius is best available than we absolutely need him. We still have plenty of ways to bring in midfielders

I think once they mature Dow SPS Pickett Cuningham Fisher O'Brien Lang Polson Garlett are all capable of kicking multiple goals. Then there is Cripps Kennedy as well on top of our Key Forwards in McKay Kerr Silvagni x 2 TDK and Charlie. I think once we get going kicking goals won't be an issue at all. I reckon it will be on of our strengths

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think once they mature Dow SPS Pickett Cuningham Fisher O'Brien Lang Polson Garlett are all capable of kicking multiple goals. Then there is Cripps Kennedy as well on top of our Key Forwards in McKay Kerr Silvagni x 2 TDK and Charlie. I think once we get going kicking goals won't be an issue at all. I reckon it will be on of our strengths

I also hope so but hoping players become something they naturally are not shouldn't be planned around. How many of those players have kicked 20 goals in a season?
It's almost like trying to turn flankers into midfielders. It can happen but you wouldn't rely on it.

 

[Soapy V]

I also hope so but hoping players become something they naturally are not shouldn't be planned around. How many of those players have kicked 20 goals in a season?
It's almost like trying to turn flankers into midfielders. It can happen but you wouldn't rely on it.

You're kidding right?

IMO they are all natural goalkickers and it's just another reason I am so confident on this group

 

[HereComesJuddy]

No & No

So Heath Scotland didnt give his all for the navy blues? Ok then

 

[TerryWallet]

These pictures are probably a strong indication of our issues at the moment, and give some hope for the future:

It's been identified before, weakness in the middle age bracket, but to see it displayed like that is stark.

This post is worth 1,000 posts trying to verbalise our position.

We are a couple of years away from better times appearing. But we are doing the necessary painful work now to recover the Club from a horrendous period pre 2016.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

You're kidding right?

IMO they are all natural goalkickers and it's just another reason I am so confident on this group

Kidding? Cripps is a natural goal kicker? It's about his worse trait.
Pickiett and Lang are the only two who look half dangerous. Dow could do so