The importance of the Academies in attracting talent

[legend166]

So a lot of the talk around the state of the game lately has been whether there's enough talent going around. One of the advantages of going to 16 a side, people say, is that you immediately get rid of the 36 worst players.

Probably the best way around this is actually increasing the talent pool. And the easiest way to increase the talent pool is to try and draft more players out of NSW and QLD.

So the current way the AFL is trying to do this is through club run Academies, which have drawn a lot of ire over the years, particularly from McGuire and his cronies.

What McGuire and others don't seem to realise is the difficulty the AFL will have in attracting talent without club run Academy's. That brings me to the point of this thread, which is this article: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/st...r/news-story/1ccddc324b2000061c3547dbc3311bb1

So long story short, a promising young athlete is tossing up between Australian Football (he was in the Swans Academy at this point) and Rugby League. His local NRL team essentially signs him up to their under 15s side and from there's it's just a matter of whether he's good enough to play for them in the NRL. He doesn't have to worry about any draft sending him across the country. He is essentially guaranteed to play for his childhood club if he's good enough.

That's what the AFL is competing with when it comes to attracting talent in non-AFL states. The Academies obviously aren't going to be the silver bullet in every case, just like it wasn't here, but it's still a much better solution than pretty much anything else. Especially when it's properly integrated into the draft system with the points method they have now. I'm also all for tuning and tweaking the rules when necessary to make it as fair as possible (I.e. I think we can all agree the zones in the GWS Academy were a bit ridiculous. I also see the arguments about Blakey but I'm not sure how you solve that one without being grossly unfair to the player involved). But the general principle of club run Academies with pathways into the club needs to remain.

So hopefully the AFL don't bow to the continued pressure of the insular Eddie types, although I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Pykie]

Nobody has any issue with the existence of the northern academies in principle.

Everyone want's to increase the talent base.

We have an issue with annexing the entire state as an exclusive draft zone. Having exclusive rights to every single player from a state is completely against the core foundations of a draft.

Why can't you develop the NSW talent pool for the benefit of the entire draft pool? I don't really care if they AFL has to fund the whole thing (lets be honest they do anyway, as GWS, GC and Brisbane aren't paying for anything at the moment)

Why does it have to benefit only 4 teams? How is making only 20% of the league stronger making the entire talent pool stronger?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Nobody has any issue with the existence of the northern academies in principle.

Everyone want's to increase the talent base.

We have an issue with annexing the entire state as an exclusive draft zone. Having exclusive rights to every single player from a state is completely against the core foundations of a draft.

Why can't you develop the NSW talent pool for the benefit of the entire draft pool? I don't really care if they AFL has to fund the whole thing (lets be honest they do anyway, as GWS, GC and Brisbane aren't paying for anything at the moment)

Why does it have to benefit only 4 teams? How is making only 20% of the league stronger making the entire talent pool stronger?

This is boringly repetitive.
1. Let's be honest the AFL does not fund the academies beyond the seed funding that is available to all clubs va the Next Generation Academies.

2. The giants academy has helped 16 players to an AFL debut. 11 for the Giants. Access is not exclusive and was never going to be.

Glad you're not opposed in principle, now if you could just address reality

 

[Colonial]

Nobody has any issue with the existence of the northern academies in principle.

Bullshit

We have an issue with annexing the entire state as an exclusive draft zone. Having exclusive rights to every single player from a state is completely against the core foundations of a draft.

Core foundations of the draft, that benefits Victorian clubs?

Why can't you develop the NSW talent pool for the benefit of the entire draft pool? I don't really care if they AFL has to fund the whole thing (lets be honest they do anyway, as GWS, GC and Brisbane aren't paying for anything at the moment)

Sponsors pay for the majority of the Academy with the AFL putting in a minimal amount.

Why does it have to benefit only 4 teams? How is making only 25% of the league stronger making the entire talent pool stronger?

You mean like an automatic home state advantage for the GF?
Bigger 3rd party payments?
No travel?
Biggest junior/reserves comp?
The Competitions media based around Victorian loyalties?

Oh I see that benefits 10 clubs not 4.

 

[Lensen]

I think the entire premise that there isn't enough talent is simply wrong. Its that instead of the best 800 or so players being in the elite comp, it's the top 600-650 or so with a bunch of kids on each list that clubs hope will be good in four years. Who often aren't

I mean yet again we yesterday see an example of a mid 20s guy come in and immediately make an impact against kids - this is a guy who was about the 80th or so picked in last year's draft pool

So no, I don't agree bastardising the already flawed draft further to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist, is worthwhile

 

[Pykie]

Bullshit



Core foundations of the draft, that benefits Victorian clubs?



Sponsors pay for the majority of the Academy with the AFL putting in a minimal amount.



You mean like an automatic home state advantage for the GF?
Bigger 3rd party payments?
No travel?
Biggest junior/reserves comp?
The Competitions media based around Victorian loyalties?

Oh I see that benefits 10 clubs not 4.

Are you just tin foil hat rambling now?

How does the entire NSW and QLD talent pool being eligible for the rest of the competition only benefit Victoria?

Oh yes "sponsors", you are losing $20m a year that the sponsorship money could be going to, that the AFL has to pay for, but because the sponsorship money is getting funneled in the academy as apposed to the football department, you are paying for it right?

How is the TAC Cup and VFL at all relevant when we don't have priority access to it? You have just as much right to draft a kid from Flemington as North does.

No travel to where?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Are you just tin foil hat rambling now?

How does the entire NSW and QLD talent pool being eligible for the rest of the competition only benefit Victoria?

Oh yes "sponsors", you are losing $20m a year that the sponsorship money could be going to, that the AFL has to pay for, but because the sponsorship money is getting funneled in the academy as apposed to the football department, you are paying for it right?

How is the TAC Cup and VFL at all relevant when we don't have priority access to it? You have just as much right to draft a kid from Flemington as North does.

No travel to where?

Pfft nonsense after nonsense. Definitive statements without a single reference or even data. But yeah, everyone else is rambling.

 

[Colonial]

Are you just tin foil hat rambling now?

How does the entire NSW and QLD talent pool being eligible for the rest of the competition only benefit Victoria?

Oh yes "sponsors", you are losing $20m a year that the sponsorship money could be going to, that the AFL has to pay for, but because the sponsorship money is getting funneled in the academy as apposed to the football department, you are paying for it right?

How is the TAC Cup and VFL at all relevant when we don't have priority access to it? You have just as much right to draft a kid from Flemington as North does.

No travel to where?

Tin foil hat???? Lol you mean like the Kanga fans in this thread?? Hell your post is completely tin foil hat.

 

[Pykie]

11 for the Giants. Access is not exclusive and was never going to be.

Glad you're not opposed in principle, now if you could just address reality

The majority of which you passed on when they were bid on, but at that point you could of taken them if you wanted, that's still priority access.

The remainder are from the Ovens and Murray region which has been stripped from the GWS zone.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

The majority of which you passed on when they were bid on, but at that point you could of taken them if you wanted, that's still priority access.

The remainder are from the Ovens and Murray region which has been stripped from the GWS zone.

Now you change the subject. You're really bad to communicate with. I'm done.

 

[Pykie]

Pfft nonsense after nonsense. Definitive statements without a single reference or even data. But yeah, everyone else is rambling.

Sorry which of these statements do you disagree with?

That the TAC Cup is open to the entire competition?
The VFL is open to the entire competition?
Every NSW/QLD prospect is not open to the entire competition? (apart from the Ovens and Murray region into the bottom of the Riverina)?
The majority of GWS' funding comes from the AFL and is recording huge operating losses?

 

[The 747]

This thread won't end well. But I think the idea is excellent and brings players into the game.

The execution is a little off and the main issue for most is that as soon as the Swans lose their COLA hey wow they get Heeney for SFA via the academy. And GWS already had huge draft concessions and then they start getting academy talent. Just the timing of both really.

Haven't heard any complaints about QLD academies due to the weakness of both clubs up there.

 

[RobbieK]

Why can't you develop the NSW talent pool for the benefit of the entire draft pool? I don't really care if they AFL has to fund the whole thing (lets be honest they do anyway, as GWS, GC and Brisbane aren't paying for anything at the moment)

Why does it have to benefit only 4 teams? How is making only 20% of the league stronger making the entire talent pool stronger?

It is pretty simple:

1. We don't have exclusive access to the players in our academy. We do get a discount on matching the bids other teams make for the players, it used to be too big but has changed to a more reasonable discount, designed to reflect the fact that we have spent money on a players development and deserve to get some return on that investment. It certainly won't be the case that academy players only end up at the teams whose academies they came through.

2. If the Swans develop a player who wouldn't have otherwise been AFL standard through our academy and select them in the draft that benefits the rest of the league because we haven't had to use that draft selection on a player from Victoria, WA or SA, leaving that player available to be selected by another club instead. So, even if academy players aren't leaving NSW or Queensland, the rest of the league is benefiting from NSW and Queensland teams not selecting players from other states.

 

[Kwality]

Nobody has any issue with the existence of the northern academies in principle.

Everyone want's to increase the talent base.

We have an issue with annexing the entire state as an exclusive draft zone. Having exclusive rights to every single player from a state is completely against the core foundations of a draft.

Why can't you develop the NSW talent pool for the benefit of the entire draft pool? I don't really care if they AFL has to fund the whole thing (lets be honest they do anyway, as GWS, GC and Brisbane aren't paying for anything at the moment)

Why does it have to benefit only 4 teams? How is making only 20% of the league stronger making the entire talent pool stronger?

Home grown heroes, kids like the boy Blakey, must play in NSW to build the game - that Nick Reiwoldt spent his career in Vic not Q, did nothing to grow the game in Q.
Its fine for (example) Buddy to have his career in Vic & NSW, WA has a strong heritage, same for Vic.

I strongly support the developing States having 1st dibs on these kids, bit like Sydney passing on F/S for Josh Dunkley, they go into the pool.

 

[Bluelegs]

I think this argument is lost a bit when you have a potential father/son pick who was always going to play football joining the Sydney Academy and giving Sydney preference.

 

[Colonial]

I think this argument is lost a bit when you have a potential father/son pick who was always going to play football joining the Sydney Academy and giving Sydney preference.

how else was he going to be developed in the Northern States?

 

[M Malice]

Probably the hottest young talent in Rugby League at the moment ie. Kalyn Ponga, was courted by the Lions but there is just too much money very early on in RL for the AFL to compete with for elite young talent.

I would be all for the AFL to run and fully fund all the academies, must also include NGAs and the proposed return to zones and their related talent identification and development programs (literally 100s of kids every year from under 12 up go through the Lions academy) it's not all about hogging elite talent, participation is a real focal point.

If the AFL was to run the northern academies though there must be real local involvement, no fly ins who have never left Melbourne except on junkets who have zero understanding of the nuances and challenges of the northern markets.

 

[raymond35]

Article says he played for a few years after trying the game in primary school. Does the swans academy include 12 year olds?

 

[RobbieK]

I think this argument is lost a bit when you have a potential father/son pick who was always going to play football joining the Sydney Academy and giving Sydney preference.

I agree that someone like Nick Blakey was not the intended recipient of academy training. That being said:

1. Should he have been banned from joining the academy and forced to play local club football that is miles behind the standard he would have played had he still been living in Victoria? Would he still be being touted as a first round pick if he hadn't had that development? Just being the son of an AFL player doesn't mean you are going to be up to the standards of AFL football, there are plenty of average father/son picks, plenty of potential father/sons who are passed over altogether.

2. He is the one who chose Sydney. He could just have nominated for North or Brisbane, it wasn't automatic. At least one of those clubs was going to be disappointed that he didn't nominate them. Given he has lived just about his entire life in Sydney, his family is in Sydney his dad is the assistant coach of the Swans, it isn't that surprising he chose Sydney. Still, any club can still make a bid on him and we are almost definitely going to have to use a first round draft pick to get him.

I like the father/son rule, it is one of the better traditions in the league, and I feel awkward about Blakey coming to us. I'm not sure what the solution for this outlier case is, though. The AFL was in charge of youth development in NSW and Queensland for a long time and they did a rubbish job and it attracted and developed very, very few AFL standard players. The current club based academies were brought in as a result and have been significantly more successful. I think ideally players in the northern states would be developed in a system independent to the clubs and would simply be available to all, but we tried it, it didn't work, and this is the compromise system we have in place - a system that works, albeit is tied to particular clubs and therefore gives those clubs preferential access.

 

[Pykie]

how else was he going to be developed in the Northern States?

Probably the same way Nick Riewoldt went at #1 playing out of Queensland.

 

[RobbieK]

Article says he played for a few years after trying the game in primary school. Does the swans academy include 12 year olds?

The youngest players are 11: http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/academy/about

 

[Cincinnatus]

Its hilarious when the Vics get into a thread and start whining about disadvantages for them, and yet actively defend all of their advantages.

This funniest of all is:

We have an issue with annexing the entire state as an exclusive draft zone. Having exclusive rights to every single player from a state is completely against the core foundations of a draft.

Having the GF exclusive to Vic is completely against the core foundations of a national code, bud.

 

[Colonial]

Probably the same way Nick Riewoldt went at #1 playing out of Queensland.

Yes the biggest and 3rd bigest states developing 1 star every 30 years.

Easy for a fan of a traditional state to say "just play in the local development system"

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Pykie]

Its hilarious when the Vics get into a thread and start whining about disadvantages for them, and yet actively defend all of their advantages.

This funniest of all is:



Having the GF exclusive to Vic is completely against the core foundations of a national code, bud.

I agree and it's discussed ad nauseam.

Whenever this is discussed everyone suddenly hits defensive mode and starts flinging s**t as if it's just Victorians whinging about the academies.

 

[Cincinnatus]

I agree and it's discussed ad nauseam.

Whenever this is discussed everyone suddenly hits defensive mode and starts flinging s**t as if it's just Victorians whinging about the academies.

There are heaps of academy threads.