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I hate stupid people who think we have peace now that the two buffoons took a selfie together
Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 5
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Ratts of Tobruk
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To be fair, I think Fox probably gets a lot of their phrases from the Trussians. Fox were anti-Trump to start with, of course. They changed for the sake of the Republican Party - their bae - and, of course, their bottom line.
Don't trust the media! But two leaders posing for pictures = peace on earth!
The symbolism is fine by me. If it is followed up with meaningful action that achieves that aim. The fact the cancelling of war exercises with South Korea was done without Japan and South Korea getting a heads up... that action would concern them. China is the big winner. We all know Trump likes 'big' things. The fact he so quickly made friends with 'little Rocket man' is likely to do with discussions and assurances that came from China.
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floodbuster
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The "agreement" was made between Trump and Un only in private and a reporter who was there said that a few hours had passed and Trump's press conference had started and still no one other than Trump's lackey's had seen the agreement.
He then said that the press started ask when the world would get to see this historic agreement and Trump's reply was oh, I thought you had it to which he then motioned to his people to hand it over and even then it took a while for it to be produced.
Since this de nuclearization agreement is just 4 paragraphs, 2 of which is NK agreeing to be nicer (so to speak) to the world and the 3rd is basically that NK will adhere to the agreement made between NK and SK about 6 weeks ago.
There is speculation that when Trump's people saw that this agreement was hardly worth the paper it was written on that they then scrambled back to Un to add in the 4th paragraph about repatriating dead US soldiers bones.
The fact that he told such a bold faced lie about thousands of parents asking him to do that gives the speculation credibility.
Ratts of Tobruk
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You and I will disagree on this, but I dislike that Monbiot has gone with so much of the rest of the Internet in making huge calls about Democracy off the basis of the extremes. Did Trump win due to "the corruption of 21st-century liberal democracy" or due to enough people believing that was the case in order to not vote in quite enough numbers for Clinton?
Because that is democracy working, in a way. Because that specific impact (obviously targeted by the Trussian campaign) combined with the rustbelt econmic voters and the anti-immigration vote and anti-left types to result in him winning enough College votes to be POTUS (ignoring the non-democratic aspects of the College and various unfair voting systems that are different region-to-region). It is, in my opinion, the same reason, 'liberal democracy' is compromised. Because Democracy requires yo win votes. Governments were more pro-environment when the people were impassioned (see Rudd's win), as compared to when anti-carbon tax propaganda flooded into the space left when that 'do something' conversation settled down. The main explanation for Clinton's lack of campaigning in the rustbelt was because she thought she could win without doing it, and therefore she would have more flexibility when negotiating policy through Congress. Wrong call, obviously, and cowardly, but unsurprising in a country that is far more individualistic that the rest of 'the West'.
The above is a comment on his conclusions, rather than his specific point about trade deals having sunset clauses.
FireKrakouer
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest.
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So the quality of my posts may be inversely proportional to how well rested I am? I will be sure to experiment with this. I may need people to start rating all my posts out of 10 so that I can accumulate data.
My point about resuming war games was to settle some of the melodramatic posters who claim Trump has "pulled out of SK". That's nonsense. The US have can resume war games with the click of their fingers. I don't believe it will come to that as I think both sides will honour the agreement, but I was pointing out that the US have really "given up" nothing.
Ratts of Tobruk
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I hadn't seen anyone post that. My concern, as mentioned above, is the lack of warning. Given Trump keeps annoying his allies and embracing the allies of those that benefit him most personally (via political propaganda & business), it's understandable people might be worried but I haven't seen it amongst the posts I have caught in this ever-spooling thread.
South Korea, of course, is the major pusher of recent NK agreements, but they will have required assurances from the US after Trump's meeting (and no doubt received them from State staff).
FireKrakouer
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest.
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Haters gonna hate. Cheer up sunshine!
Fair enough. Do you have a link for SK not being kept in the loop with what concessions the US were willing to make? All I saw was a press release from Moon this morning praising the leaders and how the summit went.
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What’s the matter Chief?
You missing the war drums?
It’s been 3-4 years since another country has been destroyed and you’re suffering withdrawal symptoms. Is that it?
Pathetic!
There is an Australian citizen being held in detention because he exposed crimes by the USA - does this matter to you? But the N Koreans you heard - from these same USA - mistreat their citizens for whom you are suddenly stricken with grief.
This is past bizarre!
Nothing quite as gullible as white progressive with unconscious Neo- Christian sensibilities.
Don’t worry - I’m sure your desperately non homophobic non misogynist non racist peers will quickly help you think well of yourself.
RupieDupie
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Yeah but to be fair on Obama he would (in my memory) whore himself to any two bit dictator especially if there was a bit of munny in it.
But when Trump is a bit hesitant with Merkel but then goes in for the grope with Un, it seems he is saying; “accepting refugees is bad, but torturing and brutalising citizens is ok”.
That seems to be the kind of morals we are grappling with in the world today.
FireKrakouer
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest.
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He doesn't need to be kind to Merkel, Trudeau et al to prevent WW3. They are firmly attached to the US teet, and are complaining that their free ride may be ending. As I said, having uncle Sam defend Europe made sense immediately post WW2, but it doesn't anymore.
That same people who complain that Trump isn't presidential enough are now complaining that he acted respectfully to Un. How would you have preferred for him to behave during a tense peace summit?
That same people who complain that Trump isn't presidential enough are now complaining that he acted respectfully to Un. How would you have preferred for him to behave during a tense peace summit?
My youtube history would be vastly different to yours
China just got one of their stooges to convince the USA to immediately stop joint military exercise in the region, to work towards de-nuking the region and potentially withdrawing all together from the region in exchange for some photo opportunities and maybe a Nobel Peace Prize.
I have no doubt China are willing to pay that price and it seams you are as well to prevent WW3
Ratts of Tobruk
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It was widely reported. Forces post-summit were still going ahead with exercise-planning as they hadn't been told otherwise. Or here's the ABC with a quote from a guy chosen for you not due to his name, but because he previously said Trump deserved praise for making DPRK realise America was serious:
(Also, QuietB above referring to US "potentially" pulling out of SK, for reference as per previous conversation.)
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Lips moving, telling lies
Oh I got one, our glorious alliance is on the verge of committing a major genocide in Yemen and no one gives a s**t. The Saudis say the invasion is a humanitarian initiative, good guys, that's why they are our allies and cultural influencers.
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http://theduran.com/watch-syrian-president-assad-explains-the-real-reason-why-hes-still-in-power/
No matter how obvious this may be - it needs to be restated repeatedly.
We Australia are not nice guys. Our behaviour on the world stage is reprehensible.
We are part of a homicidal genocidal history which continues to be sustained thru a craven relationship with the USA and our past relationship to the English Empire.
Nor do we behave like this for any noble reason - except to be on the ruling side.
Every accusation we cast at a Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot applies exponentially to us and our best buddies.
When during the period from 1946 to 2001 we and our allies were economically unchallenged, we could be from time to time be magnanimous, just and moral
Proving that human nobility is always dependant on a feeling of strength.
As our supremacy has come to be challenged, we have reverted back to our primal savage instincts. We again abandoned all pretence of international human rights and engaged in acting and justifying torture, we bombed civilian cities to ruble, our soldiers raped, looted and murdered. We have humiliated ourselves in the eyes of innocents. What we did to Iraq, Libya and Syria is unforgivable.
When the fringes of the internet reveal our human rights screed to be lies and crimes, we are pleased for our politicians to skew the truth and pressure Google, Facebook and others to censor every counter view as fake news. Heaven forbid people might have different opinions.
Still, while our noble spirit our dignity maybe dormant but it is not dead - otherwise censorship would be unnecessary. It may have atrophied from disuse yet it remains there in our constitutions, literature and philosophies - our nobility can easily be rediscovered, picked up, dusted off and restored to its full vigour.
All we need do is reassert our individual integrity as adults. Boogeymen stories are there to frighten children and keep them in line. Assad is no devil and Obama is no Saint. How can we justify holding Assad to greater account then Obama or Bush or Trump? When the USA and we have our own houses in order, our innocent released, our homeless sheltered, our hungry fed, our sick treated, our victims protected, our ignorant educated, our justice equitable, our businesses accountable, our whistleblowers celebrated - then we just may have the necessary character to challenge Assad and his like. Not till then and certainly no now.
No matter how obvious this may be - it needs to be restated repeatedly.
We Australia are not nice guys. Our behaviour on the world stage is reprehensible.
We are part of a homicidal genocidal history which continues to be sustained thru a craven relationship with the USA and our past relationship to the English Empire.
Nor do we behave like this for any noble reason - except to be on the ruling side.
Every accusation we cast at a Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot applies exponentially to us and our best buddies.
When during the period from 1946 to 2001 we and our allies were economically unchallenged, we could be from time to time be magnanimous, just and moral
Proving that human nobility is always dependant on a feeling of strength.
As our supremacy has come to be challenged, we have reverted back to our primal savage instincts. We again abandoned all pretence of international human rights and engaged in acting and justifying torture, we bombed civilian cities to ruble, our soldiers raped, looted and murdered. We have humiliated ourselves in the eyes of innocents. What we did to Iraq, Libya and Syria is unforgivable.
When the fringes of the internet reveal our human rights screed to be lies and crimes, we are pleased for our politicians to skew the truth and pressure Google, Facebook and others to censor every counter view as fake news. Heaven forbid people might have different opinions.
Still, while our noble spirit our dignity maybe dormant but it is not dead - otherwise censorship would be unnecessary. It may have atrophied from disuse yet it remains there in our constitutions, literature and philosophies - our nobility can easily be rediscovered, picked up, dusted off and restored to its full vigour.
All we need do is reassert our individual integrity as adults. Boogeymen stories are there to frighten children and keep them in line. Assad is no devil and Obama is no Saint. How can we justify holding Assad to greater account then Obama or Bush or Trump? When the USA and we have our own houses in order, our innocent released, our homeless sheltered, our hungry fed, our sick treated, our victims protected, our ignorant educated, our justice equitable, our businesses accountable, our whistleblowers celebrated - then we just may have the necessary character to challenge Assad and his like. Not till then and certainly no now.
Trump is an unhinged maniac ready to start war at a moment’s notice. Under no circumstances should he reduce the size and scope of US military power.
The agreement has been supported by UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres. South Korean President Moon Jae-in has given great praise to it, while acknowledging there is a long way to go.
People are saying here (and elsewhere) that the US has abandoned South Korea, but in South Korea the meeting has been generally well received.
Our media has focused on Trump, but realistically it has been Moon who has been driving this peace process. That he’s been able to get Trump and Kim to have a cordial meeting is to his credit. Western liberals shouldn’t undermine this good work just because they hate Trump (who, for sure, is a hypocrite given his carry on about Iran, but no need to be hypocritical back).
The agreement has been supported by UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres. South Korean President Moon Jae-in has given great praise to it, while acknowledging there is a long way to go.
People are saying here (and elsewhere) that the US has abandoned South Korea, but in South Korea the meeting has been generally well received.
Our media has focused on Trump, but realistically it has been Moon who has been driving this peace process. That he’s been able to get Trump and Kim to have a cordial meeting is to his credit. Western liberals shouldn’t undermine this good work just because they hate Trump (who, for sure, is a hypocrite given his carry on about Iran, but no need to be hypocritical back).
I don't have any issues with him pissing off Merkel et al (be better if he talked smack to their faces but whatever), likewise the meeting with Un should be seen as a positive first step - as someone else already posted, nothing else has worked might as well give this a crack. Yeah Un is a nutcase and NKorea's human rights issues needs to be addressed in a meaningful way at some point, but one step at a time.
The divide and frustration occurs when we get you blokes declaring Trump has secured a de-nuke agreement like its some sort of meaningful, binding resolution, complete with checks and verification. On top of that you're all in here bleating on about the dreaded 'left' preferring nuclear war to Trump getting a win. Now, I don't doubt that in the pathetic corners of the web you blokes frequent, examples would have been gleefully interpreted to this effect. In this thread? Nothing even close, as far as I can tell mainly just hopefulness with a healthy dose of skepticism based on NKorea's modus operandi throughout modern history.
In your frothing exuberance to cheer lead your god emperor, several Trump supporters in this thread are fast surpassing Bennett levels of delusion re: current attitudes.
He just makes up any old shyte at any old time. He probably forgot that it was the the Korean war, not Vietnam.
Funny thing is, the Trumpites don't even blink when he says this sort of dementia like crap.
Vietnam war , The Bone Spur war
RupieDupie
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Yep, but when “the loony lefties” point out the injustices and how rotten the people in power are they are ear-marked as Commies and Hippies. I can only say “I told you so” w.r.t. WMDs, even though I didn’t have the intelligence of the intelligence community.
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