Collingwood 2010/11 vs Richmond 2017/18

[Seedsfan]

A 20-2 record suggests the comp was arguably weaker.


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The comp was far stronger back then, like Collingwood Geelong and Hawthorn were all dominant that year. The competition is more even now but the talent in the top 4 is no where near what it was. Hell Collingwood are second at the moment, the 2018 Collingwood side is no where near as good as the 2011 Geelong, Hawthorn or West Coast sides

 

[Seedsfan]

Agree, Gold Coast 2011 were such a strong team

Yeah because they are a power house now. Same goes with Carlton 2018 what an amazing side.

The competition is more even now but the top end clubs were better back then

 

[Damon_3388]

The comp was far stronger back then, like Collingwood Geelong and Hawthorn were all dominant that year. The competition is more even now but the talent in the top 4 is no where near what it was. Hell Collingwood are second at the moment, the 2018 Collingwood side is no where near as good as the 2011 Geelong, Hawthorn or West Coast sides

Having a few dominant sides is moreso indicative of an imbalance in talent distribution, rather than a greater level of talent across the league.

 

[TiggerMan22]

The comp was far stronger back then, like Collingwood Geelong and Hawthorn were all dominant that year. The competition is more even now but the talent in the top 4 is no where near what it was. Hell Collingwood are second at the moment, the 2018 Collingwood side is no where near as good as the 2011 Geelong, Hawthorn or West Coast sides

Depends which was you look at it. Those 3 teams were so far above the rest of the comp that they would only really challenged by each other.
Currently the top end isnt as strong as it was then, so the comp is more even and the difference between 2nd and 10th isnt that large.

 

[ARES]

Seems we have the shortest odds since the Pies in 2011 to win the premiership after round16

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

Watching Richmond fans try spin it in their favour is hilarious.

Statistically it isn't even close so i wont go through the boring process of spewing out numbers that have already been stated. Ontop of that Pies hadto go through 3 historically great teams (Hawks, Cats and Saints). Richmond compete with who? A pies team who has beaten 1 top 8 side? Please.

Pendlebury, Swan, Ball, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom.

Good luck competing with that midfield for a start.

 

[Benny78]

This seems like a weird thread given Geelong won the flag in 2011 and pumped the Pies a couple times along the way.

That's the point. This is basically a "Geelong 2011 better than all of them" troll thread.

I'm interested in Bulldogs 2016 vs Geelong 1963.

Or the Hawks 08 vs Woewodins Brownlow

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Bit of a weird comparison IMO. I can probably understand the comparison between the Collingwood forward press and our current gamestyle - perhaps the Bulldogs should be getting a mention here as it was largely their gamestyle in 2016 that helped us adopt something similar.

Collingwood made 2 GFs (winning one) so you'd have to say they have the points on the board. If we can go back to back, that might change things but for now, they were a pretty formidable outfit. I think they had something like 10 AA players across both the 2010 and 2011 seasons?

We had 2 by comparison last year (one being the AA captain as well) and perhaps will have a similar number this year. Based on that, I'd say they have more top end talent than we do. Would also be interesting to see their full ground press vs our manic pressure and see which game style holds up.

side note: Jack won the Coleman in 2010 - if we could take his goal kicking prowess (admittedly, today's vintage is nothing to sneeze at) and combine with his selfless, team play of the last 18 months, he would be one heck of a player.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Strange comparison in many ways.

But the Pies played a style that is the logical predecessor of the Tigers game. The massive press and playing round the wings to generate scores a different way than the norm. I'd say that the Tigers have advanced the whole thing a lot. As for the quality of the teams.

Tigers are very even. Pies similar in some ways, small elite group and relied on a lot of guys that played their role very well.

One of those things. Compare premiership teams and usually you can make agreements either way.

 

[Brad Goodman]

It's difficult to compare even with just a few years between, but people are talking as though Richmond 2017-18 aren't just a run of the mill top team. They are 27-10, 125.8% over that timeframe, no more impressive than virtually any other top side from a particular season.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Watching Richmond fans try spin it in their favour is hilarious.

Statistically it isn't even close so i wont go through the boring process of spewing out numbers that have already been stated. Ontop of that Pies hadto go through 3 historically great teams (Hawks, Cats and Saints). Richmond compete with who? A pies team who has beaten 1 top 8 side? Please.

Pendlebury, Swan, Ball, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom.

Good luck competing with that midfield for a start.

St Kilda were “Historically great team”?

0 zero flags and whole heap of spuds in their starting 22.

 

[Macpotata]

Who would win?

Very good question indeed. Good post.

The Pies were phenomenally good in the back to back grand final seasons. I cbf finding out exactly but off a quick glance the last game they lost in 2010 was in round 10 away to Brisbane at the GABBA. They had a drawn game in round 12 with Melbourne whom they barely beat and barely survived back in round 2. They went on a crazy run since that GABBA loss and pretty much destroyed everyone. Belted Geelong and the Saints in the home and away games and in the finals { aside from the drawn game } but that was the only blight on a tremendous season and tremendous reign of rich form. Finished the season with a 17-1-4 win record as opposed to the Tigers 15-7.

On Richmond. Their last loss at a glance I'm guessing came against the Saints in round 16. From that point on or at least in the finals, they demolished everyone in sight. I recall in the late home and away games the maulings of Freo and the Saints but now have just remembered we beat them at Skilled after the Saints loss. In any case Richmond played the finals series and beat everyone in sight by the Flemington Straight. No one was even remotely close. Not us, not the Giants and certainly not the Crows who had a very good year and finished top albeit ever so slightly. Dusty won the Norm Smith and Brownlow putting in one of the most memorable seasons in AFL history. The Tiges started the season well and would have lost 3 straight or so against Adelaide, GWS and Freo.

On to the present time and the Tigers sit top losing three games for the year and have come in to some pretty ominous form. Their losses were away to good home teams or at least at the time in Adelaide in the Grand Final rematch, the West Coast who were flying high once more pardon the pun and the Port Adelaide Power although the Tiges were missing influential gun Dustin the Danger Martin. It will have to be yet to be determined who is the better of these sides because when you look at what the Pies did the next year it was remarkably exceptional. They musty have had a very long win streak going back from 2010 because we inflicted their first loss for season 2011 in round 8 and were the only side to beat them for the remainder of the year. We murdered them in the final home and away game but their position as number one on the ladder was already solidified going into that final game. The Pies finished 20-2 with a percenatge of 167.7 and amassing 2592 points scored for the year. They had a brownlow medallist in Dane Swan and multiple avenues to goal in Swan himself with 32 snags for the year, 24 from Pendy, 25 from Sidebottom, 69 from Cloke, 26 from Blair, 21 from Beams, Krakouer in his first year chipping in with 35, 23 from Brown and 27 from Dawes. Other players were around the high teens also which tells you about their scoring power and many attacking weapons. Collingwood was well in the Grand Final for 3 quarters with the deficit sitting only at 7 with one quarter still to play. I thought they'd overrun us at one stage in the 2nd when Krakouer nailed a few majors. Making b2b Grand Finals speaks volumes so unless the Tigers can better that or at least replicate it somewhat, I've just provided all the evidence one needs. The Pies are the better team. Less losses, a premiership also and back to back Grand Final appearances is very hard to top. At this stage the Pies are in front but there's plenty of football left and the result yet to be determined. What the Tigers do have in their favour however is they didn't draw their Grand Final and their finals campaign was blistering to say the least. Once again no one got near them. I will reiterate that the Pies lost 4 times for the year and they did destroy a super team on it's way to saluting not just in the home and away year but in the prelim where we had the wood over them certainly in finals eclipsing them in the previous 3 seasons gone by and in the previous preliminary final by a big way. Edged them in 07 also. To knock off a bogey team that played off in 3 successive Grand Finals is huge as was beating the Saints who were also a bogey side for the Pies beating them in the previous 2 finals campaigns and were in the decider themselves the year before.

The Pies are in front at this stage but the last dance of the Flemington Straight could be just around the corner. It could also be against one another but perhaps one of them won't be in prime nick by the time the dance does comes around.

But which one will it be?

 

[calyam]

Based on tactical advancement, the Tigers would win. The game evolves and gameplans that were once effective become antiquated and easily countered. But relative to the competition at the time, Collingwood was clearly the more dominant side. There is a big difference between a team with a percentage of 138% (2018) and a team with 168% (2011)

 

[Pie eyed]

Yeah cos the Malthouse saga shafted a great team. Agreed!

LOL 1 post.
Can't do better than that Mick?
How's that bleeding butt going?

 

[captain blood 17]

St Kilda were “Historically great team”?

0 zero flags and whole heap of spuds in their starting 22.

They had a streak dvd though. Cool as.

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[tony__montana]

Good post macpotato.

On talking footy (or one of those shows) Richo showed how many sides since 2001 have been 12-3 or better that havent gone on to win the flag that year and it was an extraordinarily high number. There were a number of sides that were really dominating their seasons - wce were 16-0 in 2005, saints the same in 2009, hawks 15-1 in 2012, pies 15-1 in 2011, bombers 15-1 in 2001, geelong 15-1 in 2008. So whilst we're having a very good season, there have been plenty in recent times who were travelling better, much better and didnt go on with it.

Motto of the post - as a tiger fan I am quite bullish that we are capable of going back to back as long as our list stays healthy, but by no means is it a fait accompli. A lot of water to go under bridge before finals. If we went back2back then we can start talking and arguing the merits of being one of the great sides, until then we're a premiership side nothing more(not that im complaining about that!)

 

[Macpotata]

Good post macpotato.

On talking footy (or one of those shows) Richo showed how many sides since 2001 have been 12-3 or better that havent gone on to win the flag that year and it was an extraordinarily high number. There were a number of sides that were really dominating their seasons - wce were 16-0 in 2005, saints the same in 2009, hawks 15-1 in 2012, pies 15-1 in 2011, bombers 15-1 in 2001, geelong 15-1 in 2008. So whilst we're having a very good season, there have been plenty in recent times who were travelling better, much better and didnt go on with it.

Motto of the post - as a tiger fan I am quite bullish that we are capable of going back to back as long as our list stays healthy, but by no means is it a fait accompli. A lot of water to go under bridge before finals. If we went back2back then we can start talking and arguing the merits of being one of the great sides, until then we're a premiership side nothing more(not that im complaining about that!)

West Coast lost to the Pies actually in round 9 haha yeah but I get ya. Swans got them for the second loss then they started to stagger a bit. But yes certainly the motto is correct as you said, still have to see how things pan out.

 

[calyam]

St Kilda were “Historically great team”?

0 zero flags and whole heap of spuds in their starting 22.

In VFL / AFL history there have been 6 teams who have one 19 games or more in a row. St Kilda achieved that in 2009. By comparison, there is a 121 teams that have won a premiership. It might be worth remembering that while one team wins a premiership every year, not all premiership teams are created equal. Some face phenomenal competition and others get a much easier ride. St Kilda of 2009 / 2010 is arguably the best team in league history that didn't win a Grand Final; so the teams that beats them must be pretty extraordinary.

 

[captain blood 17]

In VFL / AFL history there have been 6 teams who have one 19 games or more in a row. St Kilda achieved that in 2009. By comparison, there is a 121 teams that have won a premiership. It might be worth remembering that while one team wins a premiership every year, not all premiership teams are created equal. Some face phenomenal competition and others get a much easier ride. St Kilda of 2009 / 2010 is arguably the best team in league history that didn't win a Grand Final; so the teams that beats them must be pretty extraordinary.

Lol, what a load of shite. You telling me that saints team was better than the Geelong 89 team for example? Please.


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[Barry_Badrinath]

In VFL / AFL history there have been 6 teams who have one 19 games or more in a row. St Kilda achieved that in 2009. By comparison, there is a 121 teams that have won a premiership. It might be worth remembering that while one team wins a premiership every year, not all premiership teams are created equal. Some face phenomenal competition and others get a much easier ride. St Kilda of 2009 / 2010 is arguably the best team in league history that didn't win a Grand Final; so the teams that beats them must be pretty extraordinary.

I’m pretty sure the 2010/11 Pies didn’t have to beat the 2009 Saints to win their premiership. They beat the 2010 model, which went 15-6-1 (same as the Crows last year but with a worse percentage).

In 2011 the Saints were irrelevant.

 

[rmcq]

Pies would be 5 points up at 3/4 time, then the Tiges would smash them by 40 points in the last quarter.

 

[PieLebo87]

Pies would be 5 points up at 3/4 time, then the Tiges would smash them by 40 points in the last quarter.

I think it’s the other way around...

 

[rhys_22]

The Collingwood obsession by richmond supporters (and numerous others) is funny. Loving it. Richmond supporters up and about after winning 1 flag in 36 years, and Collingwood supporters up and about after winning 2 flags in 20 and being top 4 Again. Life is good . Go pies. By the way pies easily.

 

[NorthernLights]

Collingwood 10/11 and it's not even close

 

[barrackers]

We had 2 by comparison last year (one being the AA captain as well) and perhaps will have a similar number this year. Based on that, I'd say they have more top end talent than we do. Would also be interesting to see their full ground press vs our manic pressure and see which game style holds up.

I see a lot of Collingwood 2010 in Richmond's current game plan, with both displaying outstanding defensive structures and manic pressure.

Our tackle numbers were through the roof in 2010 where we laid a league high 1945 tackles across the season followed by St Kilda (1798) and Fremantle (1637) with the league average being 1572. In 2017 Richmond laid 1741 tackles, which was fourth to Geelong (1904), Adelaide (1797) and GWS (1762) with the league average being 1576. As seen below it's not the be all and end all though.

Most tackles in a season

1. 2048 Sydney (2016)
2. 1945 Collingwood (2010)
3. 1904 Geelong (2017)
4. 1894 Sydney (2011)
5. 1830 Sydney (2012)
6. 1829 St Kilda (2009)
7. 1800 Collingwood (2011)
8. 1798 St Kilda (2010)
9. 1797 Adelaide (2017)
10. 1787 Western Bulldogs (2016)
11. 1778 Sydney (2013)
12. 1775 West Coast (2011)