MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL thread: 2018 Edition: Weighed in the balance, who will be found wanting?

[TheCount]

Just looked at the ladder, and if you're going purely off wins in a row, the form team of the competition is.... Brisbane, with 3 wins on the Trotsky. Melbourne and the Weagles next best with 2.

That is crazy, and not just that Brisbane are the “form team”

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin, with the exception of Carlton and GC’s perennial losing streaks, the Dogs have lost 2 in a row, and the other 12 teams are all on a 1 win, or 1 loss streak

 

[Cannon82]

That is crazy, and not just that Brisbane are the “form team”

Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin, with the exception of Carlton and GC’s perennial losing streaks, the Dogs have lost 2 in a row, and the other 12 teams are all on a 1 win, or 1 loss streak

Yep, almost some neat symmetry to it with the exception of the two dire teams.

Good example of a weak competition. Elite teams are consistent - most teams seem to be putting together patchy streaks of form this year.

 

[TheCount]

Yep, almost some neat symmetry to it with the exception of the two dire teams.

Good example of a weak competition. Elite teams are consistent - most teams seem to be putting together patchy streaks of form this year.

Well thats certainly the glass half empty way of looking at it, tho seldom is the glass half full when you're posting at 3am on a Monday morning.

 

[Cannon82]

Well thats certainly the glass half empty way of looking at it, tho seldom is the glass half full when you're posting at 3am on a Monday morning.

So judgmental. I remember when you used to judge a post on the content of its characters rather than the time it was posted. You've changed.

 

[TheCount]

So judgmental. I remember when you used to judge a post on the content of its characters rather than the time it was posted. You've changed.

Posting times have had it too easy for too long

 

[Bluelegs]

Years ago, West Coast used to play 'Eagle Rock' after the club anthem was played a couple of times. Fitted for easing out the spectators. Ideally after a win for us and the Grand Old Flag is belted out a couple of times, i would have loved to hear 'High way to Hell' while exiting the MCG

Thought our addition of Hell's Bells before we ran out was inspired.

 

[Bluelegs]

Not really, since the club refuses to use the "demon" anymore cause of sponsorship dollars it literally makes zero sense.

Are you living in 2011?

We have been embracing our moniker under PJ, hence the current club slogan Raise Hell.

 

[schmuttt]

If you've already watched it look away, but even as a neutral this is a great watch.

 

[degustation]

Naitanui out has big implications for our game v West Coast. A must win if we want to push for top 6, could be an 8 point game if they slide without him. Keen to see more Gawn dominance like Thursday

 

[LeverPuller]

Naitanui out has big implications for our game v West Coast. A must win if we want to push for top 6, could be an 8 point game if they slide without him. Keen to see more Gawn dominance like Thursday

Lycett is no Roughead

 

[degustation]

Lycett is no Roughead

True but he was just average against Grundy on Sunday.

 

[Topkent]

Even vardy plays allright. WC will never have a ruck division as bad as the dogs.

 

[schmuttt]

Even vardy plays allright. WC will never have a ruck division as bad as the dogs.

If Gawn is going to carry us to another win it is far more likely to be this week against the Cats than the Eagles. Lycett is miles ahead of Smith and Stanley.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Because he is a flog who plays favourites with teams and is one of the worst reporters in footy.

And a massive flog too. God that guy’s a flog. Such a flog. Did I mention he’s a flog? Flog.

 

[Ablett2Garland]

anyone catch footy classified, sos giving it to lloyd and caro?

 

[Topkent]

anyone catch footy classified, sos giving it to lloyd and caro?

What was it about? Because SOS deserves to be grilled. He's been s**t at 2 clubs.

 

[Topkent]

If Gawn is going to carry us to another win it is far more likely to be this week against the Cats than the Eagles. Lycett is miles ahead of Smith and Stanley.

Lycett would be a genuine first ruck at most clubs. They rated him better than Sinclair who goes allright aswell

 

[Bluelegs]

What was it about? Because SOS deserves to be grilled. He's been s**t at 2 clubs.

Has gotten an incredible reception after the interview but I'm watching it now but he's deflecting a lot of the conversation and making excuses. Said something to the effect of "It would be very easy to create a list to hit 8th, 9th, or 10th". We could do it like that *snaps fingers* But to create a list to win a premiership takes time." He then cited Richmond. Thing is Richmond won 10 games in the third year of their rebuild and made finals the following year. Carlton are 18th with 1 win.

 

[Topkent]

Has gotten an incredible reception after the interview but I'm watching it now but he's deflecting a lot of the conversation and making excuses. Said something to the effect of "It would be very easy to create a list to hit 8th, 9th, or 10th". We could do it like that *snaps fingers* But to create a list to win a premiership takes time." He then cited Richmond. Thing is Richmond won 10 games in the third year of their rebuild and made finals the following year. Carlton are 18th with 1 win.

Which list had more resources to work with? Melbourne 2013 or Carlton 2015?
By the completion of 2016 we almost made finals. Meanwhile Carlton are worse now after 3 seasons.

Melbourne's list has top end talent no doubt. We also went an added Lever Melksham Hibberd Frost Tyson Salem etc. Then we drafted AVB Harmes Fritta Hannan Wagner Smith from rookie or mature age selections. Literally all sos has done is turf their whole list and draft kids and ex GWS rejects. I can't think of how anyone could have done much worse with the amount of access he had at GWS and now Carlton.

 

[Bluelegs]

Which list had more resources to work with? Melbourne 2013 or Carlton 2015?
By the completion of 2016 we almost made finals. Meanwhile Carlton are worse now after 3 seasons.

Melbourne's list has top end talent no doubt. We also went an added Lever Melksham Hibberd Frost Tyson Salem etc. Then we drafted AVB Harmes Fritta Hannan Wagner Smith from rookie or mature age selections. Literally all sos has done is turf their whole list and draft kids and ex GWS rejects. I can't think of how anyone could have done much worse with the amount of access he had at GWS and now Carlton.

The listcloggers were brought up by Lloyd and SoS essentially said that you can't just fill your list with kids you have to get recycled players and many of those players are not seen as long term.

Thinking back to our own form our only short term trade-in players were few and far between. In 2014 it was players like Daniel Cross, who filled a leadership role and is now a coach, Aidan Riley who admittedly did very little and was delisted a year later, and Viv Michie who was similar, the rest of our ins from 2014 were draftees or targeted trades who have provided significant service to the club like Vince and Tyson.

The following year we drafted hard and our only trade ins were Garlett, Frost and Lumumba. Lumumba being the only clear dud from that crop but at least had some credentials to his name. We then went to the draft hard again.

Finally in 2016 we traded in Melksham, Tomas Bugg, and Ben Kennedy. Kennedy was a flop but our hand was somewhat forced by Howe's decision to leave. Melksham has turned into a star and Bugg a solid serviceman. Again we mostly went to the draft.

I reckon you could look at most other semi-successful rebuilds over the first few years and they would show similar trends.

 

[TheCount]

Has gotten an incredible reception after the interview but I'm watching it now but he's deflecting a lot of the conversation and making excuses. Said something to the effect of "It would be very easy to create a list to hit 8th, 9th, or 10th". We could do it like that *snaps fingers* But to create a list to win a premiership takes time." He then cited Richmond. Thing is Richmond won 10 games in the third year of their rebuild and made finals the following year. Carlton are 18th with 1 win.

I've just read some of the transcripts of it, all these people applauding him were clearly responding to his body language, and the passion in his voice, because just strictly reading it, it is exactly as you say, deflections and excuses.

 

[Bluelegs]

I've just read some of the transcripts of it, all these people applauding him were clearly responding to his body language, and the passion in his voice, because just strictly reading it, it is exactly as you say, deflections and excuses.

As I said in the Footy Fourth Estate Thread. I think a lot of people praising him simply have a hard-on for footy staff members giving spite back to the media.

 

[Djcjdees]

Has gotten an incredible reception after the interview but I'm watching it now but he's deflecting a lot of the conversation and making excuses. Said something to the effect of "It would be very easy to create a list to hit 8th, 9th, or 10th". We could do it like that *snaps fingers* But to create a list to win a premiership takes time." He then cited Richmond. Thing is Richmond won 10 games in the third year of their rebuild and made finals the following year. Carlton are 18th with 1 win.

Not just this, but as I said in the other thread, their list really isn't that promising.

Aside from Cripps, who is clearly one of a kind, and Curnow to a MUCH lesser degree, their best players week-in-week-out are all going to not be there in the next few years. Simpson, Kruezer (he's 30 next year, and now has a heart murmur ffs), Murphy (just re-signed but can barely get on the park), Rowe (32 next year), Thomas (32 next year) etc

They have 2 players who are definitely going to be good (Cripps, Curnow), then a massive gap, then some half decent players (Plowman, Marchbank, Docherty - in this group because he has to come back from an ACL, Fisher) and then some decent prospects who are still pretty green and finding their feet in a rabble of a side (Mckay, Weitering, Dow). Then another gap to a bunch of decent depth (Lamb, Silvagni, Curnow, Lobbe, Lang, Kerrdige etc all list fillers).

And that's it.

There's going to be way more pain before it gets any better.

 

[Pedantic]

The cynic in me says that they've recruited these below par short term players simply so they can then delist them in a year or two and talk about how bad the list was because they had to turn over so many players. Surely anyone you recruit under say 25 should be someone you at least hope can give the club several years of service -- sure, some won't work out even with the best recruiters and development, but planning to delist them a year or two after you get them seems like planning for failure. The strangest thing for me is seeing Carlton supporters saying they were recruited purely as depth to play in the VFL and weren't expected to even be given a game at AFL level -- how has this helped them at all??

You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Surely to fill out your list around the kids, you want to get a mix of a) experienced veterans, who have preferably played in successful teams, to provide leadership and teach good habits, b) guys who can't get a consistent game at a top club for whatever reason but are quality in the reserves and might come good with some opportunity (but generally not guys who have actually been delisted for not cutting it...), c) top quality state league players in the hope that a couple might cut it at the level and the rest will at least make your reserves competitive, d) anyone who has the reputation for working like a maniac on the track and during games -- if you can't get talent, workrate is a must. Carlton seem to have recruited too many mature agers who don't fall into any of those categories, which is why they were planning to delist them almost as soon as they picked them up.

 

[Djcjdees]

Uh oh. Made the mistake of turning on AFL 360 now that my 8month old son has decided to sleep for a bit.

Robbo: WE NEED MOAR THEATRE IN THE GAYME!

Whately: The game is gearing up for not just one change, but a whole raft of changes. And the first will be starting positions.

Honestly, I'm out if they start bring these rules in. I'm honestly out. Surely I won't be the only one? Zones and starting positions is absolutely contrary to what Australian Rules is all about. Hate using the cliche but it is most certainly not aligned with the fabric of the game. I thought that was the first and most important part of the rules committee or image of the game committee or whatever they have called themselves - to not mess with the fabric of the game. Any zone at all or indeed any starting position at all is disruptive to the meaning of the sport.

Ugh