Why women play the rough/risky game of AF? How can we get more?/Improve the AFLW? Any barriers?

[jatz14]

I would suggest the AFL is spending a lot more than $6M on teenage female football all up over four years. Much more in fact when you consider the number of academies etc. $6M over 4 years would be lucky to be 15 FTEs putting aside other operational costs

In terms of 14 and unders, the recent release of the Ausplay survey has Aus football at 60k and cricket at 29K. The large numbers the AFL (and cricket) report would include introductory programs as well as a school competitions. Also, the 60K that showed up in that survey is almost certainly well unders as the latest survey averaged from the middle of 2016 to middle of 2017 so will only have captured half the massive increase this year. I think football is doing very well getting girls playing in club teams

$1.5M a year doesn't seem all that much, Australia wide. Footy has more sources of development I think. In WA, Eagles and Freo are both involved in female development as is the WAFC. Each of the WAFL clubs now has an under 18 team.

Footy investment in women is pretty big now even before you get to the AFL.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BringBackTorps]

Perspectives (3 minute ABC radio AM Program audio) from a young junior Fitzroy Football Club girl on why girls want to play AF, & from Fitzroy JFC officials; & AFL's (former) S. Lethlean on challenges re the big increase.

Fitzroy went from 4-8 girls' teams in 2017, & wants more! (Aust. wide, c. 400 ADDITIONAL NEW JNR. girls' teams were expected to be created in 2017). If their perspectives are correct, the female AF regd. nos. boom will likely be continuing for some time- & bodes well for the eventual AFLW increase in skill standards, & fan support/crowds.

SEN Radio (Melb.news) reported today inner sthn. Melb. Albert Park Golf Course might lose half of its Course, because "...like many Golf Courses around Australia, it is losing players..."; Albert Park said "booming cycling & community sport clubs" might be the beneficiaries.
I am aware Inner nthn. Melb. Northcote Golf Course (fairly close to Fitzroy) is under similar pressure.

Golf & Racecourses could be dragged into "code wars"!

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4642895.htm

EDIT:
In figures released by the AFL later today, the no. of jnr. & adult female teams grew in 2017 to "1690, an increase of 76%".
There were 983 jnr. & adult female teams in 2016 -which increased by c.707 teams in 2017. The big majority would have been jnr. female teams.

 

[TWLS]

Well we got more this year Torps.
2016 = 380,000 total Women/Girls
2017 = 463,000 - - - Now 30% of the total.
Thats about a 76% increase- Not too shabby at all.
AFL House expecting another rise in 2018 but just not as high as this year.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Well we got more this year Torps.
2016 = 380,000 total Women/Girls
2017 = 463,000 - - - Now 30% of the total.
Thats about a 76%[?] increase- Not too shabby at all.
AFL House expecting another rise in 2018 but just not as high as this year.

22% overall increase is very good.
Teams increased by 76%, which is excellent (983 jnr. & adult female teams in 2016, 1690 in 2017)
I am most interested in AF Club & School team regd. nos., and female Auskick members whose Clinic is linked to a Club.
"Participants" can include one-off gala days, physical education programs, non-contact training programs, school-linked Auskick (in NSW & Qld. mainly) etc. These don't automatically result in girls joining later a Club or school team -the vast majority don't.

Overall, very good results -but we need FAR more females (100,000 -250,000+) playing in Clubs to promote quality for an 18 team AFLW. Now c.40,000 playing for Clubs, long way to get to 100,000+ Club players. We must also aspire to having the most athletic females playing AF (Although the ARU cleverly recruited 100+ very good female athletes from outside RU for the Pearls -& won a Gold medal in RU 7's at the Rio Olympics in 2016!).

The big problem is having sufficient grounds for females to play & train for their Clubs -particularly Melb. & Sydney.

 

[The_Wookie]

Perspectives (3 minute ABC radio AM Program audio) from a young junior Fitzroy Football Club girl on why girls want to play AF, & from Fitzroy JFC officials; & AFL's (former) S. Lethlean on challenges re the big increase.

Fitzroy went from 4-8 girls' teams in 2017, & wants more! (Aust. wide, c. 400 ADDITIONAL NEW JNR. girls' teams were expected to be created in 2017). If their perspectives are correct, the female AF regd. nos. boom will likely be continuing for some time- & bodes well for the eventual AFLW increase in skill standards, & fan support/crowds.

SEN Radio (Melb.news) reported today inner sthn. Melb. Albert Park Golf Course might lose half of its Course, because "...like many Golf Courses around Australia, it is losing players..."; Albert Park said "booming cycling & community sport clubs" might be the beneficiaries.
I am aware Inner nthn. Melb. Northcote Golf Course (fairly close to Fitzroy) is under similar pressure.

Golf & Racecourses could be dragged into "code wars"!

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4642895.htm

EDIT:
In figures released by the AFL later today, the no. of jnr. & adult female teams grew in 2017 to "1690, an increase of 76%".
There were 983 jnr. & adult female teams in 2016 -which increased by c.707 teams in 2017. The big majority would have been jnr. female teams.

Victoria had a 110% increase in female club players, went from 355 clubs to 747 (392 new clubs this year alone)

 

[BringBackTorps]

SEN Melb Radio 7.12 Maher/Frawley/Dal Santo program:
Michael Klim, formerly Olympic Swimming Gold Medallist, currently involved with Old Brighton(VAFA) Women's team, said:-

. a big attraction for women to join GR AF Clubs is because they want to get fit, but don't have to pay for it (ie join a gym); & it's sociable.
(In the first year of the new 2017 VAFAW, Old Brighton has recruited c.52 adult female players)
. the men appreciate that it is "... bringing in a lot of smart women into clubs, doctors, lawyers, accountants...".
(Implication of the many off-field benefits women can deliver for a Club)
. "I think women will eventually become full time players in the AFLW". He didn't expand on this extraordinary comment.**
. Women at Old Brighton share a 15 minute joint training session with the male players each evening
(I assume handball drills)

Ashley Brazill, who plays Super Netball for Coll.FC & will start in 2018 to play for Coll.FC AFLW team, later said on SEN:-
. "I played junior mixed football (AF) with the boys at Primary School in NSW, & loved it -but there was no opportunity to keep playing after primary school".

. She said she wanted to play both sports -but "(Super -my words) Netball has been pushed back, so girls will have to choose which sport they want to play".
(Netball appears to want to emulate the WBBL, who are also implementing barriers to force women to choose their sport, OR the AFLW. Other female sports appear to be taking a more aggressive approach against the AFLW -&, I suspect, against GR female AF)

Brazill is the first person to play 2 different professional sports for the same Club in the same year in Aust.
And probably the world?

** EDIT
N.Livingstone, the new AFLW CEO, said 14.12.17 re the AFLW "...but I hope one day we will get to a time where the girls (ie AFLW players -my words) will (ALL -my word) become full time professionals..." ie 600+ full time professional AFLW players !WOW! A HUGE advance for the Aust. game! No time period mentioned.

To my knowledge, this is the first time any AFL Executive has made such a specific statement. Also, no other executive (excluding Netball) of other Aust. female sports have said specifically they hope all their female players will become "full time professionals". Super Netball will offer the possibility all its competition players (total only c. 80 players) can become full time professionals, at c. $67k pa wage each.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Pippa Smyth, recruited in the 2017 Draft-she was the fastest over 20 mtrs in the Draft Combine- will play for GWS in 2018. Smyth, a 180 cm ruck from Nelson Bay, nth.NSW, owns her own Personal Training busines/CrossFit Trainer, & is an elite athlete & fitness fanatic.
Smyth has only ever played AF for 3 yrs -all in the BDFL; & also played netball, touch rugby, oztag, & Rugby 7's. She is a prime example of the athletic talent that AF has generally missed out on in NSW & Qld for c.140 years -until now. I assume, with her elite speed & fitness but basic skills requiring much further devel., she will have a tagging/run-with role.

She explains in this video her initial BDFL fears about playing against experienced AF players ("...the girls will tackle the crap out of me..."); & her AF journey. She also mentions the appeal of the AFLW, after watching some televised 2017 AFLW games "...I want to go in hard (my emphasis) like that...and represent female (my emphasis) sport like that...".

Smyth's words, highlighted by my emphases, reinforce what we are hearing from GR female players re one of the major appeals of playing AF: many females want to play a sport which is tough & requires much courage. I suspect GR female players are proud of showing this courage (but they don't specifically say this to men).

www.playersvoice.com.au/pippa-smyth-one-giant-leap-for-women

For Smyth's detailed Sporting Profile (see pictures on Instagram of her amazing abs whilst skipping!), & the detailed, impressive Profiles of c.16 other AFLW players, see below from a Sports Management Co.

www.creamofthecrop.com.au
(then click on "Talent")

 

[Jakko]

My workmates daughter has been a classic example of the spinoff from the womens game being a success.

12 years old and at the start of 2017 decided to join one of the new girls teams at the local club her older brothers played at. Part way through the season she's invited out to train with her sanfl aligned side. She made the sanfl teams girls side, even though most are a year older than she is, and is obviously going again this year.

Her dad is proud as punch and she is getting right into it.

 

[Jakko]

Dbl

 

[blueycarlton]

Dbl

Drove from Melbourne to Ballarat to watch the Western Bulldogs v Carlton practice match and a Jan. footy fix.
Impressive ground (needs better lighting) not sure how many attended, I have read reports of around 3,000.
On ABC-TV today flicked onto the WLeague, Melbourne City v Brisbane at the rectangular stadium in Melbourne. Watched about 20 mins with absolutley nothing happening and about a crowd of 100 people? The stands were empty. Plus it must cost a fortune to stage a match there. There is no comparison with the AFLW practice match and the WLeague. The AFLW was exciting, fast, and tough. Sure there were some mistakes, it was after all a prac. match. Well done to all the women and those who attended.

 

[NoobPie]

Drove from Melbourne to Ballarat to watch the Western Bulldogs v Carlton practice match and a Jan. footy fix.
Impressive ground (needs better lighting) not sure how many attended, I have read reports of around 3,000.
On ABC-TV today flicked onto the WLeague, Melbourne City v Brisbane at the rectangular stadium in Melbourne. Watched about 20 mins with absolutley nothing happening and about a crowd of 100 people? The stands were empty. Plus it must cost a fortune to stage a match there. There is no comparison with the AFLW practice match and the WLeague. The AFLW was exciting, fast, and tough. Sure there were some mistakes, it was after all a prac. match. Well done to all the women and those who attended.

I had a quick squiz at this a few weeks ago. The W League games that are curtain raisers to A League games inevitably have crowds reported roughly 1/3rd of the A League crowd. The city roar game you watched apparently had 3,170 people there!

https://www.w-league.com.au/match/m...bane-roar-fc-women-w-league-21-01-2018/955145

Presumably they count anyone who swipes in before the final whistle

Obviously having a game as a curtain raiser reduces the costs though. I think they play at smaller suburban grounds when they are not curtain raisers

 

[BringBackTorps]

The AFLW has, obviously, turbocharged female AF regd. nos. all over Aust. It is imperative the AFLW continues to grow in popularity to maximise these regd. no. increases. The AFLW's achilles heal at the moment, for greater acceptance & popularity, is their "product" -the skills' standard is well below the AFL. In c.10 years+, the average AFLW skill standard will be much closer to/almost equal the AFL. This assumes female regd. playing nos. approach male regd. AF nos.; and a booming AFLW is able to attract most of the best female athletes to AF.

It is crucial, therefore, that the AFLW comp., Clubs & crowds continue to grow strongly. This will ensure AF attracts far more regd. female players, so average AFLW skill levels will be accelerated.
The following articles offer some interesting general insights in how to increase the excellent 2017 average of c.6800 per AFLW match (probably a world record for a stand-alone female H & A comp.)

http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/ten-ways-to-increase-attendances-in-2018/

www.fanexperienceco.com/2017/09/why-you-need-to-ask-why/

Playing AFLW games during the day in the heat of the Aust. summer is against the interests of the AFLW. It is absurd, & is the antithesis of executing skills at a high level (due to sweaty hands/sweat in eyes/more fatigue loss of concentration/sun in eyes). All games should start between about 6.15 or 8 pm (latest) only.

Fans also will be much less inclined to attend matches if they have to sit in the hot day time sun, without cover.
Has the AFL followed the above principles to discern what the fans (& players!) want! For example, "Talked To Supporters"?
And have AFL HQ executives "Walked In The Supporters' Shoes" -& sat out in the HOT day time sun, without cover, watching an AFLW match? Very unlikely.
( I attended an AFLW hot day time game at Princes Park. The vast majority of the crowd preferred to sit undercover).

EDIT:
The W League is obviously greatly inflating its average crowd size by playing A League double headers, & counting the crowd only at the end of their game - who have gone primarily to watch the men's game.

Does any one know/can estimate the seasonal average W League crowd:-

. at the start of W League double header games?
. at W League stand alone suburban games?

In its first year, the AFLW has become Aust.'s leading prof. female sport, displacing Super Netball (which had an average c.4200 H & A crowd, & lower ratings averaging 106,000 -but SN has an higher average full time pay of c. $67k).
The AFLW must be more focused on growing its crowds. The AFLW is also greatly assisting GR AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.
SuperNetball CEO, M.Fechner, has said the very high profile of Coll. FC -& thus its Netball team-has greatly increased the profile of Netball. Is it, therefore, against the interests of the AFLW & GR female AF (since AF is now in direct competition with Netball) to allow such high profile AFL Clubs to have their own Super Netball teams?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...enouement-to-overwhelmingly-successful-season

 

[The_Wookie]

Supernetball was also in its first year.

Crowds are an ancillory benefit of AFLW. If it wasnt they'd charge entry.

 

[BringBackTorps]

SEN Melb. Radio 31.1 Whateley Program

Whateley interviewed G. McLachlan, & said to him "The AFLW is a cultural movement". McLachlan replied "Its not just about football...its about equality, not only about football, its a broader journey, a broader story...18 months ago, we were having trouble getting Clubs to bid (for an AFLW team -my words), now they all want it".

They "get it".
There is a feminist/equal opportunity/female pride/new horizons & challenges (AF requires courage to play, where most other female sports don't) aspect to GR support for the AFLW in particular; & females playing GR AF in general.

 

[blueycarlton]

SEN Melb. Radio 31.1 Whateley Program

Whateley interviewed G. McLachlan, & said to him "The AFLW is a cultural movement". McLachlan replied "Its not just about football...its about equality, not only about football, its a broader journey, a broader story...18 months ago, we were having trouble getting Clubs to bid (for an AFLW team -my words), now they all want it".

They "get it".
There is a feminist/equal opportunity/pride/new horizons & challenges (AF requires courage to play, where most other female sports don't) aspect to GR support for the AFLW in particular; & females playing GR AF in general.

B.B.T.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is GR?

 

[NoobPie]

B.B.T.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is GR?

grass roots

 

[BringBackTorps]

Not sure where to put this, but with the explosion in female AF nos. certain to continue unabated for some time, there is/will be huge pressure on AF playing facilities:-

. Intra Club between its various male & female teams
. AF vs other sports in general, in allocation of parks
. AF vs. golf in particular (which is certainly in decline in Victoria, and probably in other States)
. AF vs. "greenies" (sorry, environmentalists)- who want to retain native parkland for fauna, flora & passive recreation: & oppose converting it into sporting ovals
. AF vs dog walkers & their defecating 4-footed friends (re conversion of "passive parklands").
. AF vs. some residents -who might consider "their amenity" might be adversely affected by an increase in facilities and/or "noisy" players/spectators at a neighbouring oval.

If there are insufficient ovals/clubrooms etc, some Clubs & schools will decide NOT to create/expand their female AF playing nos. This would be very UNFAIR to female players (who have been discriminated against since 1919), & damaging to the interests of AF.

The Australian 18.6.2018 Luke Griffith Article. (Behind A Paywall)
Griffith reports that:-

.Goodwood FC (5 km north of Adelaide) wants to add female teams, but lacks sufficient ovals for playing & training for new female teams

.asked Unley Council to increase its allowed useage of lights by 4 hours pw, to allow:-
- more training until 7.30 pm on Wed.
- 7 junior matches pa, on Fri nights
- 15 Sat night matches pa, to 6.30 pm

Unley Council agreed, but a "handful of residents" in comfortable Millswood are "spending tens of thousands of dollars" to take the Council to the Environment & Development Court. Some objectors are dog walkers; others state increased useage is against the "appealing, pleasant, and convenience of the living environment".

I am aware of many local residents complaining to Councils about the loudness of Club sirens, problems with parking on match days, evening Club functions "overly" noisy, footballs going into houses yards etc.

Interestingly, Griffiths also wrote that, in SA in 2017, 30% of the State's Regd. participants of 175,000 are female. This specific break-up was not released in the Dec. 2017 SANFL Participation Press Release. There is expected to be a further significant increase in SA female participation in 2018.

 

[TWLS]

We can safely say back in 2016 no one tipped this to happen.
I personally still dont get it - Why so many Women/Girls want to play.
But we should not be surprised because the young Women now want to have a piece of the action in ALL areas of life.
We sold 2 surplus heaters yesterday - We thought we were dealing with a guy via text and when they rocked up - It was a young woman, who handed over the money and said where are they, and grabbed one of them and marched to her SUV with me following with the other one.
Then explained they were for her granny who lived in a very cold house, and nobody else male or female in the family would do anything.
Enough said.

 

[The_Wookie]

Rugby League and Union are seeing increasing numbers of women turning up to play, Australian football would be no rougher than these.

 

[BringBackTorps]

New Female Football Facilities -Modular Design MUCH Cheaper

I thought this is the best place to include this.
I suspect many AF Clubs are interested in adding female teams -but believe they have inadequate female facilities to accomodate them. Also, the expense of new facilities will be a significant deterrent for many Clubs. These factors can have a very negative impact on female AF player growth -making it "too hard" for many Clubs to expand.

MODULAR construction of completely brand new clubhouses appears to be a MUCH cheaper, & much faster, option to build them. Most construction is done in a factory, then relocated.
3 changerooms, Umpires room, canteen, male & female player toilets, public toilets, & storeage area can be built in SA for about $620,000 (Don't know how many s/mtrs -but see picture). "30% cheaper, 60% faster. Also, free project management service provided"

By comparison, Ivanhoe FC (NE Melb.) built its male and female Clubhouse in 2017 at Ivanhoe Park for $1,800,000.
Oakleigh FC (SE Melb.) built its male & female Clubhouse in 2018 at Scammel Reserve for $2,800,000.
(We can assume, as these were Council funded, the builders were very "creative" in their Quotes)

SANFL Press Release 27,6.2018
www.sanfl.com.au/news/2018/06/27/building-a-bright-future-with-ausco/

Because of the female AF player boom in SA, if it continues, the SANFL reported last week that SA will require 70 additional NEW ovals by 2026.
AFL Victoria in Feb.2018 said it expects Melb. will need an additional 90 (yes 90!...not a typo) NEW ovals by 2022, to cater for the boom in GR AF -mainly led by female AF.

 

[BringBackTorps]

This article examines the background of a very talented U 18 footballer from Cairns, Elisha King -who has also excelled at other sports. King has been recruited to play in the AFLW for NM/Tas. in 2019. She has the very rare distinction of winning the Leagues Best & Fairest Award, in a competition that has the vast majority of players who are male. I have only ever heard of 2 similar situations in jnr. male AF competitions in Melb -ie the whole comp. B & F was won by a female.

The article provides another answer to the questions "Why do women play the rough/risky game of AF? How we can get more". ANSWER-High Profile Local Role Models.
I have included it here because of the wise words of her former coach, W.Hull, who has been coaching girls in AF in the Cairns district since 2009.
He said "...If there was one thing lacking (ie about promoting GR AF -my words), it was a local role model at the highest level of the game that could be adopted by local girls".

This reinforces the importance for young footballers of having a local AF role model that they can identify with. A local role model will cause AF to be an attractive sporting option for many to start playing; & to encourage young players to aim to reach an elite standard.

The undeniable importance of AFL & AFLW player role models reinforces the tradition that Clubs have a strong moral responsibility to promote the game, & not hurt GR AF.

www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20180617193619256

 

[BringBackTorps]

This article highlights the vast & extremely important personal & community benefits that some females can derive from playing GR AF. These benefits have been denied females for many decades -due to disinterest, mocking, & barriers being imposed by AF officials.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-...-in-remote-wa-community/8944822?section=sport

This article relates how a 31 y.o. mother & farmer travels a weekly 1200 km, 14 hour round trip from western NSW to play for Richmond's VFLW team. She was forced to stop playing after U11, as she was no longer allowed to play in boys' teams -so played netball instead.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-...metres-to-play-football/9991536?section=sport

How difficult would it be for a female in reasonably remote areas to be able to play GR AF? Very small towns often have AF teams -but not female teams.
And for very athletic adult women in these areas, who have reasonable AF skills, how difficult would it be for them to advance their skills considerably; & come to the notice of elite squads?


EDIT:
This video is the speech given by GWS AFLW 2018 B & F winner Alicia Eva. It recounts her journey into the AFLW.
She is a very remarkable person. It is further evidence of the quality individuals AF has been deprived of - by not encouraging female AF players.

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/video/2018-03-29/gtm-alicia-eva-acceptance-speech

 

[BringBackTorps]

A rejoinder to M. Malthouse's ridiculous views that the bump should be outlawed from female AF; & that he was influenced in his view by his 2 grand daughters -who told him they didn't want to play because it was too rough!

Females know that AF is a rough game, they need courage to play it, & they could be injured. A big attraction for many (but not all) females is the very physical nature of AF.
This does not preclude the AFL from examining female injury rates. Also, after full consultation with AFLW players, should subtle Rule changes be introduced to minimise severe injuries like ACL's & concussions?

https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/li...thouse-to-an-arm-wrestle-20180928-p506p6.html

 

[Jibroni]

Have no problem with female participation but they need to play on smaller field - soccer or rugby size and under modified rules.

The amount of games I have seen where girls do not know how to tackle or protect their bodies when colliding/bumping opponents is concerning.

 

[Yoga Pants]

The US has the right idea, we just need to attract the right females