Cryptocurrency mega-thread

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I think we can forget about crypto as a currency and I'm also a big DGB fan. The best projects will end up with FIAT pairing and as soon as that happens the 'currency coins' will become worthless. Unless they're picked up by a large business platform/industry. Now is a good time to be riding the cycles if you have the kahunas.
 
ash_1050 said:
Went in and did my tax return at H&R Block this evening and the lady who did my return advised crypto gains are only treated as income at the time it's converted back to AUD. So BTC to shitcoin and shitcoin to shitcoin transactions don't need to be tracked for the financial year ending June 30 2018. That's a few less headaches for everyone.
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Be careful, taxes done by H&R are mostly not even accountants, just shitkicker tax monkeys trained up to do tax returns and lodged under accountants name, and what she told you is completely wrong and it is pretty well documented by ATO that crypto to crypto is a CGT event. In the unlikely event you do get audited they won't care what you were told, you will still be liable if they find you owe them.
 
StringyDog said:
Be careful, taxes done by H&R are mostly not even accountants, just shitkicker tax monkeys trained up to do tax returns and lodged under accountants name, and what she told you is completely wrong and it is pretty well documented by ATO that crypto to crypto is a CGT event. In the unlikely event you do get audited they won't care what you were told, you will still be liable if they find you owe them.
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Good to get the other possible side of the coin with regards to crypto tax. It's pretty bloody confusing tbh.
 

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Potentially, the market is swinging around. A few signs cropping up. Still need real-world breakthroughs though.

FYI, news on Havven is looks they will have a collective, multi-currency collateral pool when it's all up and going. Amongst other things, what this means is you could exchange $aud, $usd, $eur or whatever currencies they've issued as a stablecoin, at the best rate, instantly, for the price of the Gas and a 0.15% fee.
 
Fireballs said:
Made money in all of mine so far except for streamspace which turned out to be a scam.

Couple of gem ICO’s coming up soon even in this ICO winter.
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Since you seem to have genuine experience, can you look into three for me? just quickly?

sonder, alt.estate and investa UK.

should have been paid by sonder by now, they haven't paid anyone, investa and alt.estate have started new revenue raising and I expected my tokens to be available and on exchanges by now with all of them. But there is no progress in any of them to be honest. 0/3 unless something happens soon, so im scared off and scarred by ICO's for now.
 
tigertigertiger said:
Since you seem to have genuine experience, can you look into three for me? just quickly?

sonder, alt.estate and investa UK.

should have been paid by sonder by now, they haven't paid anyone, investa and alt.estate have started new revenue raising and I expected my tokens to be available and on exchanges by now with all of them. But there is no progress in any of them to be honest. 0/3 unless something happens soon, so im scared off and scarred by ICO's for now.
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Sonder doesn’t look good .. admins and ceo seem like clowns, hope you didn’t invest much in them

Alt estate will be a long term hodl and has potential

Investa uk I didn’t look into

I’m extremely privileged to have close connections in crypto land with ceo’s, advisors and many strategic investors of blockchain projects which allows me to invest my eth with them and get seed and private sale deals of upcoming gems. Very lucky indeed .. however, I’m happy to share information so if interested shoot me a PM.
 
Fireballs said:
Sonder doesn’t look good .. admins and ceo seem like clowns, hope you didn’t invest much in them

Alt estate will be a long term hodl and has potential

Investa uk I didn’t look into

I’m extremely privileged to have close connections in crypto land with ceo’s, advisors and many strategic investors of blockchain projects which allows me to invest my eth with them and get seed and private sale deals of upcoming gems. Very lucky indeed .. however, I’m happy to share information so if interested shoot me a PM.
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ok, the one I think that should deliver well is investa, then alt, then sonder. but I'm a day to three away from calling sonder a loss then I'll be blasting all avenues of social media linked to them about the scam artists that they are, others have already started :(

anyway, thanks for the response and u give me hope on alt.estate at least it's just the waiting game as there investment has re started, which doesn't fill me with confidence but investa have done the same thing, there projects are way bigger than sonder though. even if those two, alt.e and investa eventually pay up, I'll never do the ico thing again, way too many scammers in this crypto world, so now I'm starting to think centralised is the way to go in this dodgy industry
 
If I could choose only one project to invest in right now, it would be CPChain hands down.

Shanghai based team with 30+ employees including 2 professors with multiple patents regarding IOT. They're making a 3 layer consensus based blockchain, aimed to help grow the IOT market (which is estimated to be a multi trillion dollar market by 2020-2022). Because marketing has only recently started, and is still ramping up, you can buy it now below private sale price (eth price is still a tad higher). It's not yet on any big exchanges and the price right now is a bargain.. It will have a tiered masternode system with details on the tiers to be released in August, plus it's slowly getting more known in the Western and Eastern market.

I urge you guys to at least look into it and do some research. It's going to rocket and is currently a steal at $0.08.

/shill
 
Fireballs said:
If I could choose only one project to invest in right now, it would be CPChain hands down.

Shanghai based team with 30+ employees including 2 professors with multiple patents regarding IOT. They're making a 3 layer consensus based blockchain, aimed to help grow the IOT market (which is estimated to be a multi trillion dollar market by 2020-2022). Because marketing has only recently started, and is still ramping up, you can buy it now below private sale price (eth price is still a tad higher). It's not yet on any big exchanges and the price right now is a bargain.. It will have a tiered masternode system with details on the tiers to be released in August, plus it's slowly getting more known in the Western and Eastern market.

I urge you guys to at least look into it and do some research. It's going to rocket and is currently a steal at $0.08.

/shill
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Correct me if I am wrong, because I skimmed the research on this project in less than 5 seconds, but what I gathered in that 5 seconds (and I see no reason to use more time for coin research than I do for sex), but isn't this a Waltonchain copy but starting miles and miles behind them?
 
Duritz said:
Correct me if I am wrong, because I skimmed the research on this project in less than 5 seconds, but what I gathered in that 5 seconds (and I see no reason to use more time for coin research than I do for sex), but isn't this a Waltonchain copy but starting miles and miles behind them?
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WTC is a great project but CPC is not a copy (but I hope CPC copies the WTC early adopter masternode set-up)

PDash is CPChains solution to storing a significant amount of data (generated by iot devices) off the main blockchain and only storing references to this data for validation/authenticity purposes. This solves one of the key problems in the approach of using blockchain to store data in iot application: scalability. Data is encrypted and stored in a parallel distributed cloud storage network and only hashes of data will be on the blockchain.

With PDash, it will be possible for CPChain to connect with other iot projects in the future such as WTC, VEN etc..
 

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Fireballs said:
WTC is a great project but CPC is not a copy (but I hope CPC copies the WTC early adopter masternode set-up)

PDash is CPChains solution to storing a significant amount of data (generated by iot devices) off the main blockchain and only storing references to this data for validation/authenticity purposes. This solves one of the key problems in the approach of using blockchain to store data in iot application: scalability. Data is encrypted and stored in a parallel distributed cloud storage network and only hashes of data will be on the blockchain.

With PDash, it will be possible for CPChain to connect with other iot projects in the future such as WTC, VEN etc..
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WTC has already solved those issues though.

Again, what is new here?
 
Fireballs said:
So you can't tell me how WTC is connecting the data in the sidechains (silos) ? Sounds like you're the one who hasn't researched it.
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Dude. I’m not IT. If you’re going to claim that beating me on an IT argument is proof of concept then you’re going to lose your money.

All I know is I have read PILES AND PILES of stuff about WTC pretty much word for word answering the stuff you’re asking about.

So, it’s for you to find out if your new venture is copying or not, not for me. I GUARANTEE you brah, GUARANTEE, That the guys running Walton have thought of everything that you are considering right now.

Brah.
 
How not to do your crypto tax in Australia article on Medium.

Of particular note my H&R Block lady is a dumb arse

How NOT to do your crypto tax in Australia
There’s a lot of good advice on how to do your crypto tax this year. There’s also some astoundingly bad advice.

Like, send you to prison bad. Put you on a payment plan for the next ten years bad. Change your name, grow a moustache, and move to Bermuda bad.

Friends, whether you think taxation is theft, or an absolute obligation for the good of your fellow man, you don’t want to get things wrong with the Australia Tax Office (ATO).

They can make your life hard. And they have the tools to do it.

Whether you’re an accidental trader who bought a couple of ETH last year and ended up going down the rabbit hole with a thousand trades, or whether you just held them for six months and ended up selling them at the peak (or the trough — our condolences), you have a tax obligation to sort out.

We think it’s a good idea to pay your tax, and we think you should make the best possible effort to get your reporting right, because a mistake can be costly down the line.

Before we get started — please note that cryptocurrency is typically treated as a ‘Capital Gains Tax’ (CGT) asset for tax purposes. You should know and understand CGT before diving into any other crypto tax information.

Having said all that, here’s some common mistakes we’ve seen doing the rounds on crypto groups all over the net:

1. If you have under $10,000 in Crypto, it’s for personal use and isn’t taxed.
FALSE! This one usually comes from misreading the way that the ATO treats personal use assets.

You can buy up to $10,000 of crypto for personal use. But the definition of personal use here is very specific: usually it’s buying crypto to directly buy something else with crypto, over a short time period. An ATO example:

Michael wants to attend a concert. The concert provider offers discounted ticket prices for payments made in cryptocurrency. Michael pays $270 to acquire cryptocurrency and uses the cryptocurrency to pay for the tickets on the same day. Having regard to the circumstances in which Michael acquired and used the cryptocurrency, the cryptocurrency is a personal use asset.
In that case, you won’t have to apply CGT to it. Nice!

However, if you hold on to that crypto for a long time before buying that concert ticket, it may no longer be personal use.

There aren’t any exact parameters for defining personal use — it’s more the ‘vibe’. And if the ATO questions a transaction, the burden of proof is on you.

If you buy that crypto in the first place as an investment, or to try and make a profit with, or to run any kind of business with, then it’s definitely treated as a capital gain, not personal use.

And no, just saying ‘this is for personal use’ doesn’t count.

2. You only pay tax when you take money out of crypto, back to fiat
FALSE. Gosh though, it would make our lives a lot easier.

You generate a ‘CGT event’ every time you sell, trade or gift cryptocurrency.
If you buy a bitcoin at $100 (lucky you), that $100 amount is its ‘cost base’.

If you sell it less than a year later at $300 (should have hodl’ed), you made $200 in capital gains, and that $200 gets added to your total taxable income.

If you held it for more than a year and sold it for $300, you’ll discount that $200 capital gain by 50% and only add $100 to your total taxable income.

If you have hundreds of trades, you better hope that you or the exchanges you’ve used have kept good records, because each of those trades count as a CGT taxable event.

Some exchanges, like EtherDelta, are harder to track but it’s definitely possible — leave a comment if you need help.

3. You can claim a loss on crypto against your income tax
FALSE! Because crypto is treated as a CGT asset, you only make capital gains or capital losses. And capital losses can only be offset against capital gains.

So, for the last financial year, if you lost money in any trades you made, you can offset those losses against gains you made in the same year.

If, overall, you lost more than you gained, you can’t just reduce your total taxable income though.

The good news is that you can roll that loss forward — so if you make a gain in this new financial year, last year’s loss can still discount your overall tax bill somewhat.

4. You can sell all of your crypto before end-of-financial-year to claim a loss, and buy it all back in the new financial year.
WOAH! False. And super illegal as well.

This is called a ‘Wash Sale’, and it’s very relevant given crypto’s volatility over the last six months.

A wash sale is the sale and purchase of an asset, where the two transactions effectively cancel each other out — commonly used to try and claim a loss.

Say you bought 10 ETH in December — and since then watched the price drop a lot. So, you decide to sell them on June 29, claim a big capital loss to reduce your tax bill, and then buy 10 ETH back on July 1 for a similar price to what you sold them for. That’s a wash sale.

The ATO knows there are more sophisticated ways of doing it — including buying back different but similar assets, spreading out the time of sale and buyback, and so on. And they can turn those up in an audit.

If you get caught, you’ll be liable for the original tax bill, and probably get fined too.

5. You shouldn’t do a tax return on your crypto if you made a loss.
WRONG! For reasons explained in point 3, you should always report your capital losses.

You might make a capital gain the year after, and all of those losses will come in handy when you want to reduce that future tax bill.

6. Airdrops and forked tokens — I’m confused.
Well, that’s not a statement that we can write ‘FALSE’ underneath, but there’s a lot of questions around how these ‘free’ tokens are treated.

With a capital gains asset, the only point that matters is the CGT event:

You generate a ‘CGT event’ every time you sell, trade or gift cryptocurrency.
So, if you do nothing with an airdropped or forked token (where the heck did that VIN come from anyway?), you will never owe tax on it.

However, if you do sell, trade or gift that airdropped or forked token, you generate a CGT event. The cost base for the token is $0, since it was free.

Which means you either add the whole value at time of disposal to your total taxable income, or half if you held the asset for more than 12 months.

7. You only generate a Capital Gains Event once you receive your tokens from an ICO, not when you initially invest
WRONG AGAIN! ICOs are the wild west of investing and this one can be confusing, especially since your ICO tokens are usually held up for months.

You generate a CGT event when you dispose of a token. In this case, that’s making your contribution to the ICO or token sale.

Since you dispose of your tokens when you make your contribution, it’s best to record the acquisition date of your new tokens at the same time, even if you don’t receive them until a while later.

The cost base is whatever you paid per token — taking into account all discounts or bonuses as well.

8. I can gift my crypto and it won’t be taxed
NOPE! Sounds like a nice idea, but it leaves all sorts of tax loopholes open — transferring assets between family members for example.

If we can be a broken record, let’s quote the ATO again:

You generate a ‘CGT event’ every time you sell, trade or gift cryptocurrency.
9. The ATO can’t track crypto transactions and if I don’t declare, I’m safe
FALSE! Also, super risky. There’s a lot of moving parts to this one, so strap in.

Firstly, all major exchanges in Australia are now covered by AUSTRAC. That means they keep records of transactions and the identities associated with those transactions, and the ATO can access those records.

They keep a particular eye on transactions above $10,000 as a safeguard against money laundering — just like ATMs and banks have to.

You might be thinking, well, let’s just use a foreign crypto exchange instead. Also not a good idea: Australia has data-sharing agreements with other countries which run exchanges in order to track attempted tax evasion too.

Another common assumption: Bitcoin and similar cryptoassets are anonymous because a wallet isn’t associated to anyone’s identity.

That’s true to a point, but it’s ignoring a couple of key issues: the blockchain is a public record of transactions which can never be destroyed or changed, and it’s also possible to reasonably link a wallet to an identity.

Because the blockchain is immutable, dodging tax or trying to hide a wallet is leaving a paper trail you can never remove — and being sneaky now might cause you a lot of problems down the track.

If your private wallet has ever interacted with a wallet on an exchange, or you’ve posted it publicly to a social media account linked to one of your emails, chances are it can be tracked back to you.

Even using cryptocurrency tumblers is not a great way to hide your gains — blockchain forensic tools are already very sophisticated and can often reverse the effect of a tumbler. These tools are getting better all the time, and your blockchain transactions are on show for all time.

Finally, even if you manage to perfectly hide all your gains, the ATO also has tools and algorithms which can send up red flags if you’re living way outside of your means.

If you don’t report any capital gains on crypto, and you start driving around in an exotic car with ‘VITALIK’ as a number plate, they’re probably on to you.

Getting caught cheating once, intentional or not, is a good way to ensure your declarations are audited in detail for years to come.


Still confused?
Crypto tax isn’t easy, we know that. In fact, capital gains in general is a pretty tricky topic and not at all intuitive — just like blockchain!

Just like blockchain, there’s also a ‘penny drop’ moment when the whole thing starts making sense. We recommend doing plenty of research, including reading up on the ATO’s tax guidelines for cryptocurrencies.

We should note that there are certain circumstances where cryptocurrency is not treated under CGT rules, for example if you’re carrying on a business of buying and selling cryptocurrency. You can read the ATO’s example here.

The tax advice above is general and doesn’t take into account your own personal situation, so please do your own research, and feel free to leave a comment with any clarifications you might need.

If you’re having trouble, it might be worth engaging a good accountant who has some experience dealing with cryptocurrencies.

There are also some good tools for tracking your transactions — diligence and accurate records are the key to this whole thing.

Finally, if you love crypto but have been burnt by tax issues this year, maybe you’re looking for an easier way to invest. That’s Every Capital.
 
ash_1050 said:
That can only go well.
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In your case, you went to H&R Block and told the lady about your Crypto but she said you only have to claim what you have sold at this stage.
You’ve gone to an accountant, you weren’t trying to hide anything and you rightly just followed her lead. It’d be annoying if you still got audited as I think the repercussions should go on the accountant.
 
prodigy said:
In your case, you went to H&R Block and told the lady about your Crypto but she said you only have to claim what you have sold at this stage.
You’ve gone to an accountant, you weren’t trying to hide anything and you rightly just followed her lead. It’d be annoying if you still got audited as I think the repercussions should go on the accountant.
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Yeah looks like H&R are dumb arses an would not recommend them for crypto gains/losses reporting at all. The above article is much more informative and correct.
 
Update on my ICO adventure, invested in 3 ICO's. Officially lost money in 1 so far, that is sonder vision! luckily I invested small on this one, 0.25 eth, as this is all just a trial. Have two left that I have invested more in individually in comparison. Would I do it again, so far no, no way.
 
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