Let's wait a week before we come to that conclusion, eh?West Coast don't need Kelly as last night has shown. Don't think you'll be getting those 2 X first rounders cats fans
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Let's wait a week before we come to that conclusion, eh?West Coast don't need Kelly as last night has shown. Don't think you'll be getting those 2 X first rounders cats fans
When we lost Leigh Colbert, we were spitting chips. Club did get Corey Enright (draft) and Cam Mooney coming the other way, thoughAsk a pies fan now, would they prefer Beams or DeGoey, Crisp and Greenwood.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.When we lost Leigh Colbert, we were spitting chips. Club did get Corey Enright (draft) and Cam Mooney coming the other way, though
Exactly. That's why I find arguments about the worth of future trades based on a single previous draft pick that went either very badly or very well to be ridiculous.Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
Port got 9 and 16 for Burgoyne, and did nothing with the picks.
LOL moral obligation? Where do you come up with this stuff?
Geelong have no obligation to anyone. Trade Kelly, don't trade Kelly - you're not going breaking any rules either way. The Blues didn't trade Gibbs in 2016, you don't have to do anything. Hawthorn traded Hill, Brisbane traded Beams, Carlton traded Gibbs last year. All family/relocation trades. Hell Geelong traded Ablett back in and he's 95.
History says that if Geelong do trade Kelly because of family issues that the trade value will be a lot lower than Geelong fans think it will be. He's not so good that clubs would trade a top 5/10 pick or multiple first round picks to get him, and our first pick is currently 20, and could be 18/19. It's a s**t outcome for Geelong - we get that - which is why the club will do everything they can to convince him not to seek a trade.
You are missing the point with your last sentence-even in the event Kelly seeks a trade Geelong won't do that trade unless its in their best interests. They won't just say 'poor Tim he wants to go home let's do a deal that doesn't help us'. Not one person in this thread has been able to mount a reasonable argument as to how trading him for a 15-20 pick (which is what you think WCE should offer) is in Geelong's interests. Unless you believe that Tayl0r poster's idea that Kelly will sit out a year (which I would suggest is fancifully remote and unlikely) then there is literally no other reason as to why trading Kelly for such a pick this year would be in Geelong's interest. Not one. Care to suggest one?
The only potential fly in that ointment is if Freo and Kelly can reach some sort of agreement. Admittedly, I think that's unlikely.First prize retaining the player, second prize trading for overs (highly unlikely given our draft currency), third prize trading for the best you can get in a s**t situation which is how most of these trades pan out.
Trading Kelly is NOT in Geelong's interest.
The only reason to trade is because it is in the player's interest and how much you subscribe to the 'you don't want to keep a player who doesn't want to be there' thing.
First prize retaining the player, second prize trading for overs (highly unlikely given our draft currency), third prize trading for the best you can get in a s**t situation which is how most of these trades pan out.
Family reasons, homesickness etc. are on a spectrum. McCarthy got the irrits and sat out a year in Perth doing dick all. Gibbs played another year of top footy with Carlton and then sought a trade again. Etc.
The only potential fly in that ointment is if Freo and Kelly can reach some sort of agreement. Admittedly, I think that's unlikely.
It may be in Geelong's interests to trade him if they get a better than breakeven return, but its not in their interests to trade him for the same or less than they would get in a trade next year.
So then i assume the McCarthy comparison is you think he will sit out the year? Last time i checked McCarthy had no kids to support, not that hard to sit out when it's only yourself you have to support. I would suggest given how many drafts Kelly was passed over in by the WA clubs the idea that he'd sit out for a year and potentially wreck his career over a promise from one of those clubs that they might trade him in in 12 months is pretty fanciful. Which is why he won't be going anywhere this year unless Geelong gets the deal they want.
Why do we need 100 pages to bicker back and forth?
Really it boils down to 2-3 scenarios:
1) Kelly decides he'd like to stay at Geelong. So he stays.
2) Kelly tells Geelong (& WCE) he would like a trade back home. West Coast offer a pick between 15-20. Firstly, because that's all they have (or are likely to have). Secondly, because that's what they think his value is. As such, Geelong either decides (a) Pick 15-20 isn't enough, so he stays another year at least, or (b) Pick 15-20 is satisfactory, or is the best they can achieve in the circumstances, and agrees on a trade.
Fans on both sides can rant and rave to our heart's content about what his value is or isn't; but if we feel so aggrieved that they wouldn't be getting enough for said player, or are paying too much for said player, then have confidence that your respective list manager will have the same view in which case the deal doesn't happen.
If fans on the other side of the fence seem delusional in their expectations, who cares? It isn't going to impact whether the deal happens or what the trade looks like. The list managers will be having much more constructive and sensible conversations than we are.
It may be in Geelong's interests to trade him if they get a better than breakeven return, but its not in their interests to trade him for the same or less than they would get in a trade next year.
So then i assume the McCarthy comparison is you think he will sit out the year? Last time i checked McCarthy had no kids to support, not that hard to sit out when it's only yourself you have to support. I would suggest given how many drafts Kelly was passed over in by the WA clubs the idea that he'd sit out for a year and potentially wreck his career over a promise from one of those clubs that they might trade him in in 12 months is pretty fanciful. Which is why he won't be going anywhere this year unless Geelong gets the deal they want.
I wasn't referring to you i was referring to half of the other posters in this thread suggesting we have a moral imperative to trade him home bc of the family situation, you can read those posts they are rubbish.
You are missing the point with your last sentence-even in the event Kelly seeks a trade Geelong won't do that trade unless its in their best interests. They won't just say 'poor Tim he wants to go home let's do a deal that doesn't help us'. Not one person in this thread has been able to mount a reasonable argument as to how trading him for a 15-20 pick (which is what you think WCE should offer) is in Geelong's interests. Unless you believe that Tayl0r poster's idea that Kelly will sit out a year (which I would suggest is fancifully remote and unlikely) then there is literally no other reason as to why trading Kelly for such a pick this year would be in Geelong's interest. Not one. Care to suggest one?
To protect clubs from their own dumb mistakes? That shouldn't be requiredInteresting, that trading for future picks can be very risking either way.
I think we should introduce a NBA like protection of first round picks.
Please vacate the thread until you retract your earlier comment in this thread or find some quotes. ThanksHaha
Well to be fair, kelly is 6 years older than them.
But using your logic. Are you saying to Geelong fans, ragutolea is worth bugger all and way less than kelly given kelly has shown more? Who would Geelong fans want more to stay? Think it’s obvious.
What are you willing to give up Nakia for? I mean he isn’t really a top 10 pick, is he? Based on proven talent he is about a 3rd rounder. Or that won’t do?
Apply bit of logic to your own arguement. Once Kelly’s wife makes it public she isn’t coming back, s**t will hit the fan.
And what do u think the playing group will think of its club treating a player in such circumstances as a commodity given a good trade will be offered either way?
Should have used your pick on Tom McCartin. Right under your nose, ignored him twice and will be a 200 game player.
I like Kelly and i hope he stays.
This is only my personal view
We will get a round 1 pick, and then we may trade one of our round 3 picks and swap it for a round 2 pick.
As good as he is , but just in my view he isn't worth 2 x Round 1 picks, Yes maybe 1 and a Round 3 pick, but id rather do what i did above.. Only time will tell i suppose.
Geelong should settle on a 1 pick value and its up to West Coast to sort it out. If they value him at pick 12, off you go Eagles, go and get it and then come back to us.
I just wanted to point out that Tim Kelly hasn't requested a trade.
You're welcome.
Lots of other players are from Perth too, I'm suprised there are only two WA teams since they must all request trades every year. Not sure how we've managed to convince Duncan to stay every year so far tbhThis will be reported by Tom Morris shortly. Standby.
'Tim Kelly has not requested a trade from Geelong. But he is from Perth and West Coast are believed to be interested, so it is expected that he will when the trade period opens next month'