Recommitted Tim Kelly [exploring trade options home to West Coast]

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LOL moral obligation? Where do you come up with this stuff?

Geelong have no obligation to anyone. Trade Kelly, don't trade Kelly - you're not going breaking any rules either way. The Blues didn't trade Gibbs in 2016, you don't have to do anything. Hawthorn traded Hill, Brisbane traded Beams, Carlton traded Gibbs last year. All family/relocation trades. Hell Geelong traded Ablett back in and he's 95.

History says that if Geelong do trade Kelly because of family issues that the trade value will be a lot lower than Geelong fans think it will be. He's not so good that clubs would trade a top 5/10 pick or multiple first round picks to get him, and our first pick is currently 20, and could be 18/19. It's a s**t outcome for Geelong - we get that - which is why the club will do everything they can to convince him not to seek a trade.

I wasn't referring to you i was referring to half of the other posters in this thread suggesting we have a moral imperative to trade him home bc of the family situation, you can read those posts they are rubbish.

You are missing the point with your last sentence-even in the event Kelly seeks a trade Geelong won't do that trade unless its in their best interests. They won't just say 'poor Tim he wants to go home let's do a deal that doesn't help us'. Not one person in this thread has been able to mount a reasonable argument as to how trading him for a 15-20 pick (which is what you think WCE should offer) is in Geelong's interests. Unless you believe that Tayl0r poster's idea that Kelly will sit out a year (which I would suggest is fancifully remote and unlikely) then there is literally no other reason as to why trading Kelly for such a pick this year would be in Geelong's interest. Not one. Care to suggest one?
 
May 5, 2006
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You are missing the point with your last sentence-even in the event Kelly seeks a trade Geelong won't do that trade unless its in their best interests. They won't just say 'poor Tim he wants to go home let's do a deal that doesn't help us'. Not one person in this thread has been able to mount a reasonable argument as to how trading him for a 15-20 pick (which is what you think WCE should offer) is in Geelong's interests. Unless you believe that Tayl0r poster's idea that Kelly will sit out a year (which I would suggest is fancifully remote and unlikely) then there is literally no other reason as to why trading Kelly for such a pick this year would be in Geelong's interest. Not one. Care to suggest one?

Trading Kelly is NOT in Geelong's interest.

The only reason to trade is because it is in the player's interest and how much you subscribe to the 'you don't want to keep a player who doesn't want to be there' thing.

First prize retaining the player, second prize trading for overs (highly unlikely given our draft currency), third prize trading for the best you can get in a s**t situation which is how most of these trades pan out.

Family reasons, homesickness etc. are on a spectrum. McCarthy got the irrits and sat out a year in Perth doing dick all. Gibbs played another year of top footy with Carlton and then sought a trade again. Etc.
 
Oct 20, 2004
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First prize retaining the player, second prize trading for overs (highly unlikely given our draft currency), third prize trading for the best you can get in a s**t situation which is how most of these trades pan out.
The only potential fly in that ointment is if Freo and Kelly can reach some sort of agreement. Admittedly, I think that's unlikely.
 
Trading Kelly is NOT in Geelong's interest.

The only reason to trade is because it is in the player's interest and how much you subscribe to the 'you don't want to keep a player who doesn't want to be there' thing.

First prize retaining the player, second prize trading for overs (highly unlikely given our draft currency), third prize trading for the best you can get in a s**t situation which is how most of these trades pan out.

Family reasons, homesickness etc. are on a spectrum. McCarthy got the irrits and sat out a year in Perth doing dick all. Gibbs played another year of top footy with Carlton and then sought a trade again. Etc.

It may be in Geelong's interests to trade him if they get a better than breakeven return, but its not in their interests to trade him for the same or less than they would get in a trade next year.

So then i assume the McCarthy comparison is you think he will sit out the year? Last time i checked McCarthy had no kids to support, not that hard to sit out when it's only yourself you have to support. I would suggest given how many drafts Kelly was passed over in by the WA clubs the idea that he'd sit out for a year and potentially wreck his career over a promise from one of those clubs that they might trade him in in 12 months is pretty fanciful. Which is why he won't be going anywhere this year unless Geelong gets the deal they want.
 
May 5, 2006
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The only potential fly in that ointment is if Freo and Kelly can reach some sort of agreement. Admittedly, I think that's unlikely.

Freo would be a horrible outcome since they have pick 5 and nothing else. If they get pick 22 from Brisbane they'd probably offer that but I doubt they'd trade 5 or next year's first given they will probably finish bottom 8 again.
 
May 5, 2006
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It may be in Geelong's interests to trade him if they get a better than breakeven return, but its not in their interests to trade him for the same or less than they would get in a trade next year.

But you don't know what they might get next year. We might just go full BigFooty and offer him $600k to go into the draft.

So then i assume the McCarthy comparison is you think he will sit out the year? Last time i checked McCarthy had no kids to support, not that hard to sit out when it's only yourself you have to support. I would suggest given how many drafts Kelly was passed over in by the WA clubs the idea that he'd sit out for a year and potentially wreck his career over a promise from one of those clubs that they might trade him in in 12 months is pretty fanciful. Which is why he won't be going anywhere this year unless Geelong gets the deal they want.

Why would you draw that conclusion? If I thought Kelly was going to sit out 2019 if not traded to Perth I would say so. I don't. I think if he requests a trade and it is denied he will continue to play for the Cats. I'm merely highlighting that there's a spectrum of 'I'd like to go home if I can' and 'I'm leaving and if you don't trade me I'll just not play'. No one knows exactly where Kelly sits on that spectrum.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Why do we need 100 pages to bicker back and forth?

Really it boils down to 2-3 scenarios:
1) Kelly decides he'd like to stay at Geelong. So he stays.
2) Kelly tells Geelong (& WCE) he would like a trade back home. West Coast offer a pick between 15-20. Firstly, because that's all they have (or are likely to have). Secondly, because that's what they think his value is. As such, Geelong either decides (a) Pick 15-20 isn't enough, so he stays another year at least, or (b) Pick 15-20 is satisfactory, or is the best they can achieve in the circumstances, and agrees on a trade.

Fans on both sides can rant and rave to our heart's content about what his value is or isn't; but if we feel so aggrieved that they wouldn't be getting enough for said player, or are paying too much for said player, then have confidence that your respective list manager will have the same view in which case the deal doesn't happen.

If fans on the other side of the fence seem delusional in their expectations, who cares? It isn't going to impact whether the deal happens or what the trade looks like. The list managers will be having much more constructive and sensible conversations than we are.

I am also bemused by 100 plus pages on this. If he wants to go we will take the Gaff compo, if WC fall short on the weekend maybe we can hardball for some steak knives. If they win no chance.

If Freo also want him then we are in a better position. We aren't going to get two firsts or some dream deal and we aren't going to trade him for pick 25+.
 

foxdog50

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Aug 1, 2006
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I like Kelly and i hope he stays.
This is only my personal view
We will get a round 1 pick, and then we may trade one of our round 3 picks and swap it for a round 2 pick.
As good as he is , but just in my view he isn't worth 2 x Round 1 picks, Yes maybe 1 and a Round 3 pick, but id rather do what i did above.. Only time will tell i suppose.
 

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It may be in Geelong's interests to trade him if they get a better than breakeven return, but its not in their interests to trade him for the same or less than they would get in a trade next year.

So then i assume the McCarthy comparison is you think he will sit out the year? Last time i checked McCarthy had no kids to support, not that hard to sit out when it's only yourself you have to support. I would suggest given how many drafts Kelly was passed over in by the WA clubs the idea that he'd sit out for a year and potentially wreck his career over a promise from one of those clubs that they might trade him in in 12 months is pretty fanciful. Which is why he won't be going anywhere this year unless Geelong gets the deal they want.


No one should seriously suggest that any player would sit out a year like McCarthy did. That was an absolute anomaly and tbh it should only make clubs more hesitant to take a player that would sit out a year.

But clubs trade all the time in the players interest. Brad Hill for 23 was better for Freo without being rediculous. Freo delisted Dylan Roberton when a trade couldn't get done knowing another club would pick him up because he insisted he had to go back to Melbourne. Saints got a bargain. Go back further and after reinvigorating his career as a defender, Chris Tarrant (out of contract) got back to the pies for... Tarrant + 44 for 43 + 55. That was rubbish for Freo.


Of course for every trade like that there are other players that say they want a trade, who end up staying. Won't be at all surprised if Kelly wants to pay back Geelong and says unless the deal is good he'll stay another year (if he even looks for a trade in the first place).
 
Jan 13, 2006
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I wasn't referring to you i was referring to half of the other posters in this thread suggesting we have a moral imperative to trade him home bc of the family situation, you can read those posts they are rubbish.

You are missing the point with your last sentence-even in the event Kelly seeks a trade Geelong won't do that trade unless its in their best interests. They won't just say 'poor Tim he wants to go home let's do a deal that doesn't help us'. Not one person in this thread has been able to mount a reasonable argument as to how trading him for a 15-20 pick (which is what you think WCE should offer) is in Geelong's interests. Unless you believe that Tayl0r poster's idea that Kelly will sit out a year (which I would suggest is fancifully remote and unlikely) then there is literally no other reason as to why trading Kelly for such a pick this year would be in Geelong's interest. Not one. Care to suggest one?

I have had this discussion with some WCE supporters but get dillusional responses about how they don’t need to bring in good footballers to the club during their premiership window.

Think a lot of Kelly’s value to WCE will depend on how they go next week against collingwood in the grand final. They have a premiership window that is open and depending on how short they potentially fall and the areas they need to strengthen, getting kelly may become a top priority for 19 and they will pay anything necessary to get it done.

Depends how the club perceives the gap between a flag and Kelly bridging that gap.
 
Haha

Well to be fair, kelly is 6 years older than them.

But using your logic. Are you saying to Geelong fans, ragutolea is worth bugger all and way less than kelly given kelly has shown more? Who would Geelong fans want more to stay? Think it’s obvious.

What are you willing to give up Nakia for? I mean he isn’t really a top 10 pick, is he? Based on proven talent he is about a 3rd rounder. Or that won’t do?

Apply bit of logic to your own arguement. Once Kelly’s wife makes it public she isn’t coming back, s**t will hit the fan.

And what do u think the playing group will think of its club treating a player in such circumstances as a commodity given a good trade will be offered either way?

Should have used your pick on Tom McCartin. Right under your nose, ignored him twice and will be a 200 game player.
Please vacate the thread until you retract your earlier comment in this thread or find some quotes. Thanks :thumbsu:
 
May 5, 2006
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I like Kelly and i hope he stays.
This is only my personal view
We will get a round 1 pick, and then we may trade one of our round 3 picks and swap it for a round 2 pick.
As good as he is , but just in my view he isn't worth 2 x Round 1 picks, Yes maybe 1 and a Round 3 pick, but id rather do what i did above.. Only time will tell i suppose.

Right now we don't have a Rd 1 pick, only an early 2nd. Picks 20 and 35.

So you're suggesting 20 + 35 for Kelly + 47? Not the most unreasonable trade I've seen. If we had 18/19 and 20 I think we'd be comfortable trading away one of those picks and downgrading 35.
 

Two Planks

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Geelong should settle on a 1 pick value and its up to West Coast to sort it out. If they value him at pick 12, off you go Eagles, go and get it and then come back to us.
 
May 5, 2006
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Geelong should settle on a 1 pick value and its up to West Coast to sort it out. If they value him at pick 12, off you go Eagles, go and get it and then come back to us.

This happens about 1 in 100 trades.

Pick 12 (your example) belongs to GWS. They'd want pick 20 plus our 2019 Rd 1 for that, probably more. Pass.
 
This will be reported by Tom Morris shortly. Standby.

'Tim Kelly has not requested a trade from Geelong. But he is from Perth and West Coast are believed to be interested, so it is expected that he will when the trade period opens next month'
Lots of other players are from Perth too, I'm suprised there are only two WA teams since they must all request trades every year. Not sure how we've managed to convince Duncan to stay every year so far tbh
 

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