The Kevin McHale Cup 18-19

[rampantstatks]

I've still overplayed a fair few positions. So it's still anybody's spot.

Wow, you're not kidding. Looking at the red in your game summary it looks like there is hope for the rest of us. Shades of Bostonian. On a related note, does anyone think the red flags in the summary are coming more quickly this season? Maybe Yahoo changed the algorithm?

 

[flaps]

Wow, you're not kidding. Looking at the red in your game summary it looks like there is hope for the rest of us. Shades of Bostonian. On a related note, does anyone think the red flags in the summary are coming more quickly this season? Maybe Yahoo changed the algorithm?

Yep, I've got to start looking tactically at what I can pull back. Better to know this early in the season though before a repeat scenario of last year though

 

[rampantstatks]

Yep, I've got to start looking tactically at what I can pull back. Better to know this early in the season though before a repeat scenario of last year though

I still haven't figured out the optimum way to play. Last year I kept everything green until the end (had one game I didn't use) but because things get so wonky in the last three weeks I don't think that's the optimum use of player slots. So then what is? Please tell me if you figure it out.

 

[flaps]

I still haven't figured out the optimum way to play. Last year I kept everything green until the end (had one game I didn't use) but because things get so wonky in the last three weeks I don't think that's the optimum use of player slots. So then what is? Please tell me if you figure it out.

I think I'll just keep trying to stay ahead for the moment and then reassess how far I am along after the new year or at the all-star break. Might be too late by then, but even if I don't win this year I won't be upset. First time in the comp so there's a lot to learn.

 

[flaps]

This is the part where I drop back into the pack :|

 

[flaps]

Is anyone interested in a 2 for 1 trade? I'm overplayed in positions and looking to cut back on talent for a slight increase of what i put on the court.

Also, do we have a trade deadline? All star break?

 

[Bugsy Mogues]

No trade deadline. Only restrictions are to dropping players... Team contracted players can't be dropped after allstar break.

What specific guys you looking to move? I need to do something, my team is hohumming.

 

[rampantstatks]

No trade deadline. Only restrictions are to dropping players... Team contracted players can't be dropped after allstar break.

What specific guys you looking to move? I need to do something, my team is hohumming.

We don't have a trade deadline? I thought we did, usually near the league's deadline.

 

[flaps]

No trade deadline. Only restrictions are to dropping players... Team contracted players can't be dropped after allstar break.

What specific guys you looking to move? I need to do something, my team is hohumming.

Haven't looked too hard. I guess I'd be happy to move any of the following:

Isaiah Thomas Den - PG
Bojan Bogdanovic Ind - SG,SF
T.J. Warren Pho - SF,PF
Al-Farouq Aminu Por - SF,PF
Tristan Thompson Cle - PF,C
Rajon Rondo LAL - PG

Not looking for anything in particular, but I'm happy to open up the shop for anyone

 

[deeman87]

Looking to move my team contracts, both Whiteside and Hart. Don't expect much of anything back so if anyone wants either shout out.

 

[flaps]

Looking to move my team contracts, both Whiteside and Hart. Don't expect much of anything back so if anyone wants either shout out.

Just drop them before the All Star break so I can pick them up for free

 

[deeman87]

Just drop them before the All Star break so I can pick them up for free

I was trying not to use my last two free agent adds lol.

 

[flaps]

I was trying not to use my last two free agent adds lol.

You're sorted now though

 

[deeman87]

You're sorted now though

Haha cheers.

 

[rampantstatks]

Two things. First, do we or do we not have a trade deadline? If we do, when is it. If we don't, when was this changed? Second, I've never seen a trade like the one Deeman and Flaps just did. I have no problem with someone picking up a player and then later trading him for value, but for a contender to acquire someone that helps him significantly just by picking up someone anyone could have picked up the day before does not seem fair. I don't know what was discussed between Flaps and Deeman that led to this transaction, but the basic deal is flawed. Deeman received virtually no value from Flaps in this trade. He could have asked anyone of us to do this exact same trade, just let us know who he wanted, and the problem with that is it places Deeman in the role of kingmaker. Whoever he chooses to do this deal with gets a significant advantage over the rest of the contenders. I don't think this trade should be allowed.

 

[deeman87]

Two things. First, do we or do we not have a trade deadline? If we do, when is it. If we don't, when was this changed? Second, I've never seen a trade like the one Deeman and Flaps just did. I have no problem with someone picking up a player and then later trading him for value, but for a contender to acquire someone that helps him significantly just by picking up someone anyone could have picked up the day before does not seem fair. I don't know what was discussed between Flaps and Deeman that led to this transaction, but the basic deal is flawed. Deeman received virtually no value from Flaps in this trade. He could have asked anyone of us to do this exact same trade, just let us know who he wanted, and the problem with that is it places Deeman in the role of kingmaker. Whoever he chooses to do this deal with gets a significant advantage over the rest of the contenders. I don't think this trade should be allowed.

I'm not sure why you're so annoyed, I'd argue Flaps' adding Whiteside gives people more of a chance to win. Have you actually looked at Whiteside's production this year? Whiteside is as bad a FT this year as DJ or Dwight ever were. It always went in roto you cant win with either and while that's been proven to be wrong in this league it's def not black and white that the trade helps Flaps. I put out a message 4 days ago that I wanted to trade him, I also tried to trade him earlier in the year to a couple of people and got declined. He was on the trade block for most of the year, no one wanted him and I only had 1 more day til all star break and if I didn't accept the trade I was going to have to use my last drop.

Regardless it was essential I got rid of Whiteside before all star break so I can go into the auction with a clean slate. l dont want to be stuck with a guy shooting 43%FT on 4 attempts PG. I'd argue its 50-50 whether this helps him this year. Also if Nance keeps getting minutes I'd much rather play him than Whiteside and that's reflected in Nance being ranked 40spots above Whiteside. Guys like Whiteside, Ingram etc. who can't shoot FTs have ruined my year and pushed me outside the top 4 for the first time in like 4 years and I want no part in them going forward, especially not for another full season. I think just getting rid of him is a win and getting back a guy I can actually potentially play is a big win for my team. So that's the logic, I don't think its flawed, quite the opposite. I gotta assume you haven't actually studied Whiteside's stats this year and seen how bad his FT is because while he's awesome in the blocks and reb columns his horrible FT probably makes him a net negative for roto overall. Hope that clears it up mate, I would never make a move to help someone else win I'm just looking after my own team. ✌

 

[flaps]

Two things. First, do we or do we not have a trade deadline? If we do, when is it. If we don't, when was this changed? Second, I've never seen a trade like the one Deeman and Flaps just did. I have no problem with someone picking up a player and then later trading him for value, but for a contender to acquire someone that helps him significantly just by picking up someone anyone could have picked up the day before does not seem fair. I don't know what was discussed between Flaps and Deeman that led to this transaction, but the basic deal is flawed. Deeman received virtually no value from Flaps in this trade. He could have asked anyone of us to do this exact same trade, just let us know who he wanted, and the problem with that is it places Deeman in the role of kingmaker. Whoever he chooses to do this deal with gets a significant advantage over the rest of the contenders. I don't think this trade should be allowed.

It was stated earlier in the thread that there was no trade deadline for players that are not in team contracts. And there was a trade deadline that went up to the All-Star break (which hasn't happened obviously). So if you're thinking that it was the NBA trade deadline, then it's incorrect.

Everyone else had their chance to get Whiteside or Hart. There were a number of days between deeman87 posting that he wanted to move those players and the deal happening, so it's really not his fault that he took a deal where he could if he didn't value Whiteside (and waived Hart). Because I have waiver adds up my sleeve, that's a strategy I'm okay with using to get a player i wanted off the FA (feel free to pick up T.Thompson) who had more value for my team than I currently had, and then to move that player for another is a pretty sideways move from there.

I personally think it's a pretty even trade, only slightly in my favour. I don't think it's enough to say it's lopsided to warrant a veto at all.

 

[flaps]

Also forgetting the fact that I'm not actually that far ahead. I've overplayed many positions (again, my strategy I'm comfortable with), so to say that deeman87 is playing kingmaker is kinda wrong considering I'm realistically back in the pack when my limits of positions are accounted for. I'm still not expecting to win the league, so there's that too.

 

[Tony Richo]

Trade deadline in this league is 28th Feb. you can find it under league settings in Yahoo. If you have a player on a Team contract, you must drop him before the all star break or else you are stuck with him for next year (unless you can trade him by Feb 28th.) For what it’s worth I don’t have a problem with the trade. Deeman was clearly desperate to get rid of Whiteside. I actually made an offer for Whiteside early in the year as I was chasing blocks. When I read Deeman wanted to trade him recently, I thought about making an offer again. Then after looking closely at his performance and having him in another team in a different league, his performance has fallen away pretty badly. Do I think he’s better than Nance? Yes I do (only just at the moment though to be honest). Do I think Whiteside is worth carrying into next year on a team contract at $3.6m. No I don’t and that’s why I didn’t make an offer on him this time. That’s the beauty of this league - some teams are obviously trying to win now while others are prepping for next year and dumping unwanted contracts if they can. If Flaps has worked that to his advantage, good on him. Finally I would say, I’ve played in enough leagues with Deeman to know I would never question his integrity, he’s a fierce competitor who knows his sh*t and would only be making moves in the best interests of his team - I guarantee you he doesn’t give a stuff about anyone else’s team!!

 

[flaps]

Trade deadline in this league is 28th Feb. you can find it under league settings in Yahoo. If you have a player on a Team contract, you must drop him before the all star break or else you are stuck with him for next year (unless you can trade him by Feb 28th.) For what it’s worth I don’t have a problem with the trade. Deeman was clearly desperate to get rid of Whiteside. I actually made an offer for Whiteside early in the year as I was chasing blocks. When I read Deeman wanted to trade him recently, I thought about making an offer again. Then after looking closely at his performance and having him in another team in a different league, his performance has fallen away pretty badly. Do I think he’s better than Nance? Yes I do (only just at the moment though to be honest). Do I think Whiteside is worth carrying into next year on a team contract at $3.6m. No I don’t and that’s why I didn’t make an offer on him this time. That’s the beauty of this league - some teams are obviously trying to win now while others are prepping for next year and dumping unwanted contracts if they can. If Flaps has worked that to his advantage, good on him. Finally I would say, I’ve played in enough leagues with Deeman to know I would never question his integrity, he’s a fierce competitor who knows his sh*t and would only be making moves in the best interests of his team - I guarantee you he doesn’t give a stuff about anyone else’s team!!

I also play in other leagues with deeman87, and ultimately, it's not his job to worry about other people's teams. If we all did that, no signings, delistings or trades would process.

 

[rampantstatks]

The problem I have with this trade is I think it ends the competition for this year, and I do not believe Deeman got any value. He traded an asset that is worth probably 7-8 points in the standings in blocks and rebounds, for a free agent pick up that any team could have made. I think such an unbalanced trade is cheating. I also don't buy the "fake dilemma" of being stuck with keepers you don't want. You don't lose your moves by dropping a player. If Deeman wanted to save his moves, he could simply waive the two players without picking anyone up. The fact that Deeman was trying to trade Whiteside previously doesn't justify trading him for nothing to a contender, particularly since the alternative of waiver was always available. I'm pretty chill about trades generally, but as far as I'm concerned this trade had determined the winner for this year. I will not make the decision now, but I don't want to play in a league where this kind of trade happens.

 

[deeman87]

The problem I have with this trade is I think it ends the competition for this year, and I do not believe Deeman got any value. He traded an asset that is worth probably 7-8 points in the standings in blocks and rebounds, for a free agent pick up that any team could have made. I think such an unbalanced trade is cheating. I also don't buy the "fake dilemma" of being stuck with keepers you don't want. You don't lose your moves by dropping a player. If Deeman wanted to save his moves, he could simply waive the two players without picking anyone up. The fact that Deeman was trying to trade Whiteside previously doesn't justify trading him for nothing to a contender, particularly since the alternative of waiver was always available. I'm pretty chill about trades generally, but as far as I'm concerned this trade had determined the winner for this year. I will not make the decision now, but I don't want to play in a league where this kind of trade happens.

Cmon mate? Have a look at what Nance is putting up right now, just because he was a free agent pickup doesn't mean anything if he's stuffing every cat except 3s and assists. He would have been worth more to Flaps than Whiteside as he'd give him the same categories but without stuffing his FT% and with less blocks and more steals. This is getting silly now, go have a look at what both players are putting up, Nance is the superior roto player IMO and i rid myself of a contract for next year that i desperatly didn't want. Why would i just drop someone and not add someone then i'm going to fall way behind on games played and that's almost tanking for an extra team contract i'll be damned if i finish bottom 6! The fact Flaps is leading literally never crossed my mind. You've been a part of this league for a fairly long time now and I think this is a bit ridiculous if you're really going to drop out because of this trade. Anyways, i've said my piece, i honestly am absolutely mystified by you judging the trade to be so uneven because it isn't and i've been playing this game for over a decade with a fair amount of success. This trade helps my team this year and next, i need the steals and the FT% without sacrificing the boards, points and FG% i'd lose if i just dropped Whiteside. Drop the stubborn act man it doesn't do you justice. I get you not seeing the trade properly first up but if you can't see reason here i dunno what else to tell you. Even if the trade did help Flaps he has played way more games than everyone and if you think the season is over already you haven't played enough roto. It's Feb not April, there's a lot more basketball to be played yet

 

[flaps]

The problem I have with this trade is I think it ends the competition for this year, and I do not believe Deeman got any value. He traded an asset that is worth probably 7-8 points in the standings in blocks and rebounds, for a free agent pick up that any team could have made. I think such an unbalanced trade is cheating. I also don't buy the "fake dilemma" of being stuck with keepers you don't want. You don't lose your moves by dropping a player. If Deeman wanted to save his moves, he could simply waive the two players without picking anyone up. The fact that Deeman was trying to trade Whiteside previously doesn't justify trading him for nothing to a contender, particularly since the alternative of waiver was always available. I'm pretty chill about trades generally, but as far as I'm concerned this trade had determined the winner for this year. I will not make the decision now, but I don't want to play in a league where this kind of trade happens.

Quite frankly, I don't take it lightly to be labelled a cheat.

As stated previously there he obviously felt no other offers were suitable for Whiteside. Statisticallyit'ss more even than you're making it out to be. Nance has more value long term, so I don't know what the issue is.

If you're worried about a team being determined a winner based off one trade, you ought to draft a better side in the off-season.

 

[deeman87]

The problem I have with this trade is I think it ends the competition for this year, and I do not believe Deeman got any value. He traded an asset that is worth probably 7-8 points in the standings in blocks and rebounds, for a free agent pick up that any team could have made. I think such an unbalanced trade is cheating. I also don't buy the "fake dilemma" of being stuck with keepers you don't want. You don't lose your moves by dropping a player. If Deeman wanted to save his moves, he could simply waive the two players without picking anyone up. The fact that Deeman was trying to trade Whiteside previously doesn't justify trading him for nothing to a contender, particularly since the alternative of waiver was always available. I'm pretty chill about trades generally, but as far as I'm concerned this trade had determined the winner for this year. I will not make the decision now, but I don't want to play in a league where this kind of trade happens.

Right he did just call us both cheats, didn't he...That's f k n ridiculous Ramp is it your time of the month or what?! Honestly if you're gonna call me a cheat you can f k right off, as someone who's played strategy games for a living for most of my adult life, it's pretty much the worst thing you can call someone. I've never cheated in a game of cards with half my bankroll in a pot let alone fantasy sports with no prize pool. I'm pretty outraged at that label to be honest, i think you need to go look the word up in the dictionary, go look at Nance's stats and just GAGF. I'm done with this conversation if you wanna be a little bit*h with no inkling of deeper strategic thinking good luck with that.

 

[Bugsy Mogues]

Ok, this is getting out of hand. Let's all stop with the name calling and aggression, we are better than that.

As for the trade...
As Commish I have to approve every trade in this league. I approved this one because the value on each side is comparable... Nance is good, Whiteside is good, but they bring different stats and thats what trades are for, helping each team improve now or in the future.

Nothing was done outside of the rules. Managers are within their rights to trade who they like. The only thing unusual in this case is that a waiver wire pickup was traded immediately for a contracted player. But let's be clear here, this is not a trade of a top 20 player for a scrub, value wise I consider it fair and that's why it was approved.

I can see everyones point of view in this, but in the end I think it was a tactical move by both Managers to improve their teams by targetting specific stats. No collusion, no cheating and the trade stands.