Training 2019 Preseason

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SaintsSeptember said:
When we drafted Dunstan i was rapt. We'd had so many draft picks who could play for their first few years, and Dunstan came in and right from the get to , made the 22, often getting more than 20 disposals per game. After Robert Eddy and his 9 or 10 disposals, I was excited anticipating the future. THen i was let down.
Dunstan's Average disposals per game.
2014 19 ( Seb wasn't getting that , and it was Seb's third season)
2015 17
2016 17
2017 22 ( yes people were celebrating how much dunstan was improving , but he was slightly better than his first year )
2018 22.

Was he on the gear or something when he was in Juniors?
I've long stopped hoping for him to improve remarkably. Good ordinary player. Better than Minchington, but not by a huge amount.
If he gets better , so be it, i'm not counting on it, there are better prospects in Acres, Steele, Clark , Sinclair and Coffield.
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As i said- for a bloke on the bench as much as he is, those are decent numbers.

If he played the same minutes as ross, billings, sinclair etc (at his current output of possies/minute) he'd be averaging ~26 touches a week.

Screenshot_20190118-210702_Chrome.jpg

Sadly he's been in our bottom ~3 for time on ground EVERY year of his career without any real improvement in TOG at all.

His lack of tank was this year really put it in perspective ...with his 5 years of playing and training as an AFL footballer only just edging out puny, (for now) tankless teenager hunter clark by 1%.

And no- we haven't been benching dunstan by choice... have you seen how much our midfield has been getting flogged by the last 5 years??!!
It's not like we have the luxury of giving experienced mids an optional break because we have selwood ablett and dangerfield out there getting the job done!
 
The_Steadier said:
As i said- for a bloke on the bench as much as he is, those are decent numbers.

If he played the same minutes as ross, billings, sinclair etc (at his current output of possies/minute) he'd be averaging ~26 touches a week.

View attachment 606979

Sadly he's been in our bottom ~3 for time on ground EVERY year of his career without any real improvement in TOG at all.

His lack of tank was this year really put it in perspective ...with his 5 years of playing and training as an AFL footballer only just edging out puny, (for now) tankless teenager hunter clark by 1%.

And no- we haven't been benching dunstan by choice... have you seen how much our midfield has been getting flogged by the last 5 years??!!
It's not like we have the luxury of giving experienced mids an optional break because we have selwood ablett and dangerfield out there getting the job done!
Click to expand...

I liked your post , because i agree with what you say. I don't actually like it. :(
 
The_Steadier said:
As i said- for a bloke on the bench as much as he is, those are decent numbers.

If he played the same minutes as ross, billings, sinclair etc (at his current output of possies/minute) he'd be averaging ~26 touches a week.

View attachment 606979

Sadly he's been in our bottom ~3 for time on ground EVERY year of his career without any real improvement in TOG at all.

His lack of tank was this year really put it in perspective ...with his 5 years of playing and training as an AFL footballer only just edging out puny, (for now) tankless teenager hunter clark by 1%.

And no- we haven't been benching dunstan by choice... have you seen how much our midfield has been getting flogged by the last 5 years??!!
It's not like we have the luxury of giving experienced mids an optional break because we have selwood ablett and dangerfield out there getting the job done!
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On the other hand, our best two mids only have 9% more game time than Dunstan.
I’m not sure what that says about him or them.

My contention has always been TOG% is an indicator of playing time, and not much else. It doesn’t look at position, roles or skills.

For example: in the above Austin has 30% more game time than Dunstan.
Do we infer from this that Austin has a 30% better tank?
Clearly not, as they have been tasked with different, non comparable positions.

Similarly if we compare Dunstan’s game time to the top three mids (Ross, Steele and Steven), the variance is much smaller (10%ish).
Do we infer that they have a 10% better tank than Dunstan?
But how can we do that when clearly each play different roles.

And how can we measure this anyway when we do not understand the importance that the coaching staff places on each of their roles, and the way they fit into team structure and the mid’s rotation strategies (how much game time the coaching panel want to expose them).

Sadly, I think the more likely explanation is that Dunstan is limited in his ability to play multiple roles. He is an inside mid and not much else.

Steele can tag out the best opposition mid.
Steven can break lines and kick goals.
Ross can also tag, spread, deliver and kick goals.

Dunstan isn’t as good as any of them, and the coaching panel want to keep their best on the ground longest.

That’s the more likely reason.
 

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Sadly we've been over the numbers time and again, barely in the top one hundred for clearances, low disposal efficiency, regardless of where he is at and what he has done our midfield as a whole group is very, very ordinary and for us to improve then all of them in whatever combination will have to find a way of being better, that will be a combination of coaching and natural improvement.

In my eyes in a midfield group of Billings, Ross, Stuv, Clark, Steele, Hanners, Acres, Dunstan, Armitage and Sinclair with Phillips, Hind, Paton, Coffield, Newnes and even McKenzie all having aspirations to midfield minutes, it's hard to see what Luke brings that is so much better than ay one else that would guarantee his place in a starting 22.
 
Moral Decay said:
Sadly we've been over the numbers time and again, barely in the top one hundred for clearances, low disposal efficiency, regardless of where he is at and what he has done our midfield as a whole group is very, very ordinary and for us to improve then all of them in whatever combination will have to find a way of being better, that will be a combination of coaching and natural improvement.

In my eyes in a midfield group of Billings, Ross, Stuv, Clark, Steele, Hanners, Acres, Dunstan, Armitage and Sinclair with Phillips, Hind, Paton, Coffield, Newnes and even McKenzie all having aspirations to midfield minutes, it's hard to see what Luke brings that is so much better than ay one else that would guarantee his place in a starting 22.
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Dunstan's issues are that he is not quick or a great runner and gets killed on the spread. He can win contested ball but its when we dont have the ball the opposition hurts him. I think with Hannebrey coming in and players like Acres and Gresham etc playing more midfield. Slow old style grunt players like Dunstan & Armitage should struggle to get games.
 
Impatient Saint said:
Dunstan issues are that he is not quick and gets killed on the spread at times. He can win contested ball but its when we dont have the ball the opposition hurts him. I think with Hannebrey coming in and players like Acres and Gresham etc playing more midfield. Slow old style grunt players like Dunstan & Armitage should struggle to get games.
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At his best, Armitage far outshone Dunstan.
 
lewdogs said:
Hopefully in an AFL environment he should improve that trait. Good at least that he's coming from a solid base. What are your other thoughts on him based on WAFL viewing?
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Pretty much what others have said - good physicality a la' Ben Long, fast off the mark which made him like a decent lead up option at times. X-factor for sure, kicks goals from anywhere, is as slippery as a greased eel too
 
For me, what I’ve seen when at the club this pre season; my biggest bolter’s are Coffield and Long. Both haven’t missed a beat and I will be genuinely be disappointed if they don’t have a real impact this year.

The mature agers look good. On the track at least. Hard to line up how they will go on the big stage, but positive none the less.

If we can end up with 7-9 wins and see improvement from our young brigade, think that’s a big win for the season.
 
mightymalaka said:
We back into the Dunny bashing again i see!

Its not good for the pipes peeps!

Why cant people see that his lack of game time
had far more to do with his clash with Richo
Than any limitations the lad may or may not have!
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I honestly hope that you're right I want every player in St.Kilda colours to succeed, I haven't heard about any clash with Richo if you know something I'd love to hear about it, if anything I've understood it to be the opposite, Richo's loved him and played him on preference to Steele and Acres despite all the low numbers.

Try not to think of it as Dunny bashing, I'm one those that are constantly amazed at the Dunny boosting and wonder if he'd get a game if Richo wasn't coach.
 
Interesting call from Dinny here. Hopefully on the money too, but playing "half-back" must be a joke surely...

"Armitage's situation is interesting. His preferred position is in the midfield but hamstring, groin and back issues have plagued him in recent seasons, and he's likely to spend more time across half-back. He will likely be a depth player in 2019. - Dinny Navaratnam"
 
Moral Decay said:
I honestly hope that you're right I want every player in St.Kilda colours to succeed, I haven't heard about any clash with Richo if you know something I'd love to hear about it, if anything I've understood it to be the opposite, Richo's loved him and played him on preference to Steele and Acres despite all the low numbers.

Try not to think of it as Dunny bashing, I'm one those that are constantly amazed at the Dunny boosting and wonder if he'd get a game if Richo wasn't coach.
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Yeah he was accused of being Richo's pet in the early days! But that all changed when he publically questioned the tactics
Behind our baffling game plan! First in 2017 and then again last year! Twas well known within the club they had fallen out
in the last 18 months!

I'd rather be accused of boosting my Dunny than bashing it, seeing how much time i spend on it!
 
ScrappyDo said:
Interesting call from Dinny here. Hopefully on the money too, but playing "half-back" must be a joke surely...

"Armitage's situation is interesting. His preferred position is in the midfield but hamstring, groin and back issues have plagued him in recent seasons, and he's likely to spend more time across half-back. He will likely be a depth player in 2019. - Dinny Navaratnam"
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White, Rice, Wilkie, Dmac even Coff should all be ahead of Armo first
 

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mightymalaka said:
We back into the Dunny bashing again i see!

Its not good for the pipes peeps!

Why cant people see that his lack of game time
had far more to do with his clash with Richo
Than any limitations the lad may or may not have!
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He gets limited game time because of his pace and the fact that he is similar to other lack of pace mids. I cant see how he plays much this year but if he does then the side isn't going forward. We need to have a better balanced midfield. Don't think there is much of a clash with Richo because he had many chances.
 
plugger66 said:
He gets limited game time because of his pace and the fact that he is similar to other lack of pace mids. I cant see how he plays much this year but if he does then the side isn't going forward. We need to have a better balanced midfield. Don't think there is much of a clash with Richo because he had many chances.
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If he is getting limited time due to lack of pace i'm surprised 80% of the team are not sitting on the pine all at once!
Might explain why we seemed to be grossly outnumbered at the contests last year! That's poor coaching Richo!

Btw Happy new Year Plugs!......Nice to see you back!
 
Moral Decay said:
Sadly we've been over the numbers time and again, barely in the top one hundred for clearances, low disposal efficiency, regardless of where he is at and what he has done our midfield as a whole group is very, very ordinary and for us to improve then all of them in whatever combination will have to find a way of being better, that will be a combination of coaching and natural improvement.

In my eyes in a midfield group of Billings, Ross, Stuv, Clark, Steele, Hanners, Acres, Dunstan, Armitage and Sinclair with Phillips, Hind, Paton, Coffield, Newnes and even McKenzie all having aspirations to midfield minutes, it's hard to see what Luke brings that is so much better than ay one else that would guarantee his place in a starting 22.
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Dunstan is keeping Bytel's seat warm for 2019 only

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SaintsSeptember said:
At his best, Armitage far outshone Dunstan.
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I can understand people have inflated views of Armitage because in our wooden spoon years he did ok. IMO he is another battler whos
running capacities are way below an A grade midfielder. His kicking at full speed is very ordinary and his delivery into the forward 50 is 2nd rate. If we are to become a top 8 side than neither Armo or Dunstan should be in our side.
 
Impatient Saint said:
I can understand people have inflated views of Armitage because in our wooden spoon years he did ok. IMO he is another battler whos
running capacities are way below an A grade midfielder. His kicking at full speed is very ordinary and his delivery into the forward 50 is 2nd rate. If we are to become a top 8 side than neither Armo or Dunstan should be in our side.
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Armitage is not what he was. He was never "really quick" but he wasn't slow to begin with, seems to be more his agility isn't up to it since he had back problems. He did a really good job of winning contested ball when he was at his best, but its been around 3 seasons since then.
Dunstan is AFL standard but is a GOP. He simply hasn't improved significantly since his debut season. (when he was far ahead of Ross ).

I'm looking for any improvement from the likes of Steele, Billings, Gresham, Clarke and Coffield. Acres the big smokey that could still go either way.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Interesting call from Dinny here. Hopefully on the money too, but playing "half-back" must be a joke surely...

"Armitage's situation is interesting. His preferred position is in the midfield but hamstring, groin and back issues have plagued him in recent seasons, and he's likely to spend more time across half-back. He will likely be a depth player in 2019. - Dinny Navaratnam"
Click to expand...
Give us the spoon now fmd.
 
mightymalaka said:
If he is getting limited time due to lack of pace i'm surprised 80% of the team are not sitting on the pine all at once!
Might explain why we seemed to be grossly outnumbered at the contests last year! That's poor coaching Richo!

Btw Happy new Year Plugs!......Nice to see you back!
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If richo picked all those players when we traded or drafted them then it’s poor coaching otherwise it poor recruiting. Dunstan didn’t play the first 2 games last year but then comes in and then others like Steele have to play out of position.

I was in Greenland for last 2 months and the internet is poor.
 
plugger66 said:
If richo picked all those players when we traded or drafted them then it’s poor coaching otherwise it poor recruiting. Dunstan didn’t play the first 2 games last year but then comes in and then others like Steele have to play out of position.

I was in Greenland for last 2 months and the internet is poor.
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Didn't Stevens get injured after R2 and Dunstan replaced him?

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If Dunstan or Armo are best 22 at any stage next season we are wooden spooners! There is no room for one trick ponies in AFL anymore. With those two out of the way maybe Acres will get the chance he has earned with some consistent midfield minutes. Hunter will be knocking the door down this season too so Acres better step up.
 
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