30 Years of The AFL

[greatwhiteshark]

Sure. I certainly don’t have an issue with anyone celebrating the success of a club they support in another league, or even another sport. It’s just not this league is all I’m saying, which dampens its relevance here.

Thats fair enough and when discussing the VFL/AFL it has zero relevance. But when discussing the history of the game it is very relevant and one the custodians of the game fail to acknowledge or inform people of.
It is my opinion that when things like for example most consecutive premierships is discussed the commentary teams should point out that in the VFL/AFL league it is collingwood who has the record, but the benchmark in Australian football at the highest level is Port adelaide with 6 in a row.
This is why the AFL should not have any part what so ever in being custodians of the game. They should have a 10% voice in it at most.

Port Adelaide with 30 odd highest level premierships or East Fremantle with 25 odd highest level premierships is very relevant to the history of the sport. They are the benchmark in Aussie rules at the highest level.

 

[Coaster2012]

Thats fair enough and when discussing the VFL/AFL it has zero relevance. But when discussing the history of the game it is very relevant and one the custodians of the game fail to acknowledge or inform people of.
It is my opinion that when things like for example most consecutive premierships is discussed the commentary teams should point out that in the VFL/AFL league it is collingwood who has the record, but the benchmark in Australian football at the highest level is Port adelaide with 6 in a row.
This is why the AFL should not have any part what so ever in being custodians of the game. They should have a 10% voice in it at most.

Port Adelaide with 30 odd highest level premierships or East Fremantle with 25 odd highest level premierships is very relevant to the history of the sport. They are the benchmark in Aussie rules at the highest level.

It's also lost on alot of Vic supporters, that in their prime, East Freo were the best team in the country across all leagues. They habitually won all the nation wide expedition games.

 

[Monkey King]

Thats fair enough and when discussing the VFL/AFL it has zero relevance. But when discussing the history of the game it is very relevant and one the custodians of the game fail to acknowledge or inform people of.
It is my opinion that when things like for example most consecutive premierships is discussed the commentary teams should point out that in the VFL/AFL league it is collingwood who has the record, but the benchmark in Australian football at the highest level is Port adelaide with 6 in a row.
This is why the AFL should not have any part what so ever in being custodians of the game. They should have a 10% voice in it at most.

I agree the AFL should not be custodians of the game’s history on behalf of other leagues. Which is why I disagree with the bold. Commentators of this league should no more reference SANFL records than those of the EDFL.

 

[The_Wookie]

Thats fair enough and when discussing the VFL/AFL it has zero relevance. But when discussing the history of the game it is very relevant and one the custodians of the game fail to acknowledge or inform people of.
It is my opinion that when things like for example most consecutive premierships is discussed the commentary teams should point out that in the VFL/AFL league it is collingwood who has the record, but the benchmark in Australian football at the highest level is Port adelaide with 6 in a row.

If they are talking about the sport sure. But not if they are talking about the AFL competition.

This is why the AFL should not have any part what so ever in being custodians of the game. They should have a 10% voice in it at most.

By they do, and even under the ANFC if the VFL didnt want to do something, it didnt get done.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If your definition is "every state involved", then not only is it a justifiable bone of contention that ALL mainland states are as bad as each other when it comes to sucking the life force out of Tasmania (don't lump it all on Victoria, the rest of them vote for the status quo too), but you'd also better tell the Yanks that they've been doing it wrong for the last 100 seasons, because they've never managed more than half of their 50 states hosting teams in NFL...

Think you've read me wrong, I replied to a post claiming it to be a national comp.

It's not a "true" national comp in the literal sense. More than half the teams are in one state.

Don't get me wrong I'm not on the side of merging vic, cull vic because there are too many teams in Vic.................. the largest supporter base of the game would walk away in droves.

This should explain my position clearly.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-the-national-comp-can-never-be-national.1177974/

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Think you've read me wrong, I replied to a post claiming it to be a national comp.

It's not a "true" national comp in the literal sense. More than half the teams are in one state.

Don't get me wrong I'm not on the side of merging vic, cull vic because there are too many teams in Vic.................. the largest supporter base of the game would walk away in droves.

This should explain my position clearly.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-the-national-comp-can-never-be-national.1177974/

A national comp doesn't need the same amount of teams in each state.... the Australian Football League doesn't either. Just needs more balance overall, in terms of who's on prime time tv and where the GF is. We've got a pretty good system other than the league HQ listening to the barks of the VIC mob much more than anyone else

 

[Gibbke]

It's a national comp. The entire nation's footy resources are geared towards it, and every state contributes to it (which might also be a diplomatic way of saying that Tasmania's treatment is the single greatest atrocity in Australian sport). You can't be any more "national" than that...

Whether it's in the exact and ideal configuration, well we all have our preferences and that includes the admin who make the decisions regarding to its financial wellbeing, but there's no denying that it's a truly Australia-wide competition...

 

[footyfan1978]

But players don't move from the AFL to the WAFL, do they. Only if they're not good enough to get a game in the AFL.

Up until 1987 or so, you had 3 separate leagues in which the talent was spread evenly (relatively, anyway). After that point, you had one main league into which ALL the best talent was funnelled. Thus, the WAFL and SANFL became second rung leagues, and the VFL/AFL became THE league. .

Having watched this league every season since 1978 I am tipping in a year like 1986 there would be around 100 players in VFL from the other states across the 12 clubs. Some did not always make it and had to play reserves but most teams had on average about 2 from SA and 2 from WA in senior team. Some had more. Every club in league had recruits from interstate leagues. It is a long way from correct to say talent spread even across the leagues at the time.
Ball park figures we are probably talking 65% of talent in the VFL, 15 % each in SANFL and WAFL and probably 4 or 5 % of the rest in ACT league, Tasmania, Queensland, NT and New South Wales.

For example Bulldogs probably had around a third of their team recruited from WAFL in their 1986 teams. Off top of my head I can think of Simon Beasley, Andrew Purser, Brad Hardie, Murray Rance, Alan Daniels and Jim Sewell from WA. If you had a state of origin game around the time, the SA and WA teams were usually over half their team playing in VFL. In fact right now been watching a little of Big V v WA game from 1986 on fox footy channel. Off top of my head, I can identify the vast majority of WA players played in VFL clubs. Brad Hadie- Footscray, Ross Glendinning- North, Dean Laidley- North, Mark Mitchell - Richmond, Peter Wison- Richmond, Maurice Rioli - Richmond, Gary Buckenara - Hawks, Rod Lester-Smith- Hawks, Geoff Miles- Collingwood, Phil Narkle- Saints, Leon Baker- Essendon, Wayne Blackwell- Carlton, Peter Sartori- Carlton and Brian Peake - Geelong. There looks like Laurie Keene, MacNish and Waterson that played with Eagles in early years about only obvious guys that stand out as not playing original VFL teams in 80's back then.The Big V had no one from other leagues playing in their state of origin team. I can only think of Michael Aish, Gary McIntosh and Stephen Michael from interstate games around then that never played VFL that clearly looked up to it and never moved over.

This spread evenly idea across 3 leagues idea is total fallacy around time. Even my own club had Kernahan, Motley and Bradley come over from SA that very year. Mark Naley the following year from memory. State of Origin games were designed to allow the players from original state have their cream of crop still represent their original state. The best 20 or so players from each state going to be roughly similar standard but Victoria could field 3 teams of real depth compared to 1 for other main states.
The majority of the best players from other leagues would be playing in premier league of VFL back then at some point of their career to test themselves in the big league of the time. It is why it eventually was heading to the premier league expanding to other states having a team in it. Eventually it lead to naturally calling the premier league AFL instead of VFL as clubs based from other states meant the change of name was logical next step.

It is what it is. VFL was breakaway league from VFA with aim to be a premier league. It eventually killed off VFA, WAFL and SANFL of being able to keep their best players and was clearly premier league around the nation by 1980's and only drawing more and more of best players from other leagues. It expanded further to allow teams from other states have a club in it and call itself AFL into 1990's. The other leagues still had enough talent to be very watchable but one league was clearly the big league by time 1980's came around. Premier league became AFL. It is tough pill to swallow, I get that, but it is what it is.
123rd season soon to begin, bring it on....

 

[Dank Academy]

Having watched this league every season since 1978 I am tipping in a year like 1986 there would be around 100 players in VFL from the other states across the 12 clubs. Some did not always make it and had to play reserves but most teams had on average about 2 from SA and 2 from WA in senior team. Some had more. Every club in league had recruits from interstate leagues. It is a long way from correct to say talent spread even across the leagues at the time.
Ball park figures we are probably talking 65% of talent in the VFL, 15 % each in SANFL and WAFL and probably 4 or 5 % of the rest in ACT league, Tasmania, Queensland, NT and New South Wales.

For example Bulldogs probably had around a third of their team recruited from WAFL in their 1986 teams. Off top of my head I can think of Simon Beasley, Andrew Purser, Brad Hardie, Murray Rance, Alan Daniels and Jim Sewell from WA. If you had a state of origin game around the time, the SA and WA teams were usually over half their team playing in VFL. In fact right now been watching a little of Big V v WA game from 1986 on fox footy channel. Off top of my head, I can identify the vast majority of WA players played in VFL clubs. Brad Hadie- Footscray, Ross Glendinning- North, Dean Laidley- North, Mark Mitchell - Richmond, Peter Wison- Richmond, Maurice Rioli - Richmond, Gary Buckenara - Hawks, Rod Lester-Smith- Hawks, Geoff Miles- Collingwood, Phil Narkle- Saints, Leon Baker- Essendon, Wayne Blackwell- Carlton, Peter Sartori- Carlton and Brian Peake - Geelong. There looks like Laurie Keene, MacNish and Waterson that played with Eagles in early years about only obvious guys that stand out as not playing original VFL teams in 80's back then.The Big V had no one from other leagues playing in their state of origin team. I can only think of Michael Aish, Gary McIntosh and Stephen Michael from interstate games around then that never played VFL that clearly looked up to it and never moved over.

This spread evenly idea across 3 leagues idea is total fallacy around time. Even my own club had Kernahan, Motley and Bradley come over from SA that very year. Mark Naley the following year from memory. State of Origin games were designed to allow the players from original state have their cream of crop still represent their original state. The best 20 or so players from each state going to be roughly similar standard but Victoria could field 3 teams of real depth compared to 1 for other main states.
The majority of the best players from other leagues would be playing in premier league of VFL back then at some point of their career to test themselves in the big league of the time. It is why it eventually was heading to the premier league expanding to other states having a team in it. Eventually it lead to naturally calling the premier league AFL instead of VFL as clubs based from other states meant the change of name was logical next step.

It is what it is. VFL was breakaway league from VFA with aim to be a premier league. It eventually killed off VFA, WAFL and SANFL of being able to keep their best players and was clearly premier league around the nation by 1980's and only drawing more and more of best players from other leagues. It expanded further to allow teams from other states have a club in it and call itself AFL into 1990's. The other leagues still had enough talent to be very watchable but one league was clearly the big league by time 1980's came around. Premier league became AFL. It is tough pill to swallow, I get that, but it is what it is.
123rd season soon to begin, bring it on....

I don’t have an issue with any of this - my question is why people see celebrating the last 30 seasons as some sort of backhand to the VFL - it’s not... as you infer it’s celebrating the beast the VFL became.


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[telsor]

It's not a "true" national comp in the literal sense. More than half the teams are in one state.

Over half the market is in one state too...

 

[Dank Academy]

Over half the market is in one state too...

I’ve seen you post this statement over and over again in various threads with zero substance to back your bogus claim. Sure it’s a substantial portion of the market, maybe half... now over half?
Plus you’re well and truly off topic.

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[footyfan1978]

I don’t have an issue with any of this - my question is why people see celebrating the last 30 seasons as some sort of backhand to the VFL - it’s not... as you infer it’s celebrating the beast the VFL became.

Anyone is free to celebrate any section of league history they like I would have thought. If someone wants to celebrate 50 seasons of watching or 30 seasons all power to them for not needing others to the same arbitrary interest of time. Happy to celebrate my 42nd season of following league footy in my own way and just as happy to my club to celebrate Collingwood's 100th and 125th seasons birthday by beating to celebrate in our way. Plenty of things to celebrate when you look for them.

 

[telsor]

I’ve seen you post this statement over and over again in various threads with zero substance to back your bogus claim. Sure it’s a substantial portion of the market, maybe half... now over half?
Plus you’re well and truly off topic.

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Look at the population of the football states, TV ratings and the players produced. Vic is >50% of the market.

As for being off topic...I quoted what I was responding to, and my comment was relevant to that.

 

[JackFlash]

The AFL name change was 1990. This is the 30th AFL season contested. What should we be celebrating? The ruination of the once great game of Australian Rules Football with yearly dilution of the game with bizarre rule changes and PC madness?

 

[Interstater]

This is when the VFL went from being a state based competition to a national competition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_VFL_draft

Victorians speak of VFL/AFL records in an attempt to rewrite history.
If they had any respect for the history of the game nationally they wouldn't speak this way.
They would speak about VFL records and AFL records separately.
But Victorians are only looking out for Victorians and need to maintain their superiority complexes to the detriment of the game as a whole.

The rebadging to AFL was for the media, it was so Channel 7 could charge their advertisers more and hence contribute more back to the competition, which allowed players to become "professional" and the quality of the league to improve significantly, thereby justifying the more expensive broadcast fees.

And yet, Victorian ferals will continue to treat everyone except their own with disrespect. They will argue nothing has changed and its ok to keep claiming 1950's state league premierships as of equal worth to national premierships.

And that's why Australian football will never become truly international.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

No one's neglecting the past Victorian League. However the AFL is a different comp. Proper professional comp.

The AFL wasn’t even fully professional in the early 90s.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This is when the VFL went from being a state based competition to a national competition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_VFL_draft

Victorians speak of VFL/AFL records in an attempt to rewrite history.
If they had any respect for the history of the game nationally they wouldn't speak this way.
They would speak about VFL records and AFL records separately.
But Victorians are only looking out for Victorians and need to maintain their superiority complexes to the detriment of the game as a whole.

The rebadging to AFL was for the media, it was so Channel 7 could charge their advertisers more and hence contribute more back to the competition, which allowed players to become "professional" and the quality of the league to improve significantly, thereby justifying the more expensive broadcast fees.

And yet, Victorian ferals will continue to treat everyone except their own with disrespect. They will argue nothing has changed and its ok to keep claiming 1950's state league premierships as of equal worth to national premierships.

And that's why Australian football will never become truly international.

Bahahaha

Quite a leap you’ve made there with your final sentence.

 

[Hainberg]

I don’t have an issue with any of this - my question is why people see celebrating the last 30 seasons as some sort of backhand to the VFL - it’s not... as you infer it’s celebrating the beast the VFL became.


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I understand your point, but I'd hardly say it's anything worth celebrating. Yes, the VFL/AFL has become incredibly financially strong. But it's lost it's soul in return.

 

[Dank Academy]

I understand your point, but I'd hardly say it's anything worth celebrating. Yes, the VFL/AFL has become incredibly financially strong. But it's lost it's soul in return.

It's a shame you feel that way. I certainly have my issues with AFL House, but to me the last 29 seasons have delivered so many memorable, great moments. Why not celebrate that?

 

[Hainberg]

It's a shame you feel that way. I certainly have my issues with AFL House, but to me the last 29 seasons have delivered so many memorable, great moments. Why not celebrate that?

Yeah, I suppose focusing on the positives (no matter how outnumbered they seem to be at the moment) is a far better way to view something like sport.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I’ve seen you post this statement over and over again in various threads with zero substance to back your bogus claim. Sure it’s a substantial portion of the market, maybe half... now over half?
Plus you’re well and truly off topic.

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These are the population numbers state by state, I'll let you do the numbers or use a calc. It clearly shows the bulk of the market is highly likely to be in Victoria.



Oh and it is relevant to the thread as it's part of the discussion as to the why we have the landscape we have

 

[Carringbush2010]

Over half the market is in one state too...

Does not make the comp truly "national" then.

 

[Dank Academy]

These are the population numbers state by state, I'll let you do the numbers or use a calc. It clearly shows the bulk of the market is highly likely to be in Victoria.

View attachment 620702

Oh and it is relevant to the thread as it's part of the discussion as to the why we have the landscape we have

I mean, we both know how this conversation is likely to play out, and to be honest I’d rather just go and revisit one of the other threads you guys have derailed with this simplistic guess work, and save my thumbs the effort of typing.


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[telsor]

I mean, we both know how this conversation is likely to play out, and to be honest I’d rather just go and revisit one of the other threads you guys have derailed with this simplistic guess work, and save my thumbs the effort of typing.


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Sorry if facts get in the way of your arguments.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I mean, we both know how this conversation is likely to play out, and to be honest I’d rather just go and revisit one of the other threads you guys have derailed with this simplistic guess work, and save my thumbs the effort of typing.


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So you'd think 30 years of the AFL would be the same if the footy state populations were even?