Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[Passmore]

This has to be one of the greatest test knocks of all time.

 

[Sopwiths North]

[QUOTE="Val Keating, post: 59581710, member: 186105"

Yeah I understand all that, but, could a future president use the same tactics used by Trump to build his wall to circumnavigate the NRA and the Congressional members corrupted by the NRA and other organisations to finally do something about gun control in America?[/QUOTE]


Given the precedent Trump has just set, I think the short answer is yes. But it would devolve into a legal quagmire, and I doubt it would end up working, much the same as how Trump will not get his wall despite this perceived "emergency". (Gotta love how he calls a National State of Emergency, then says how he "didn't have to do it". Usual beacon of clarity there. And yet the MAGA hats never seem to raise an eyebrow. I guess too busy chanting U-S-A. Which always makes my bones chill a bit.)

Anyways Val, if nothing changed under Obama after Sandy Hook, then I doubt it will happen in our lifetime. The NRA is like a cancer that will never be eradicated. But I do believe that logically, the precedent has now opened up, so it's a good point/question you made.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Hmm on Omar, anti-semite or critical of Israel and the influence that pro-Israeli lobbies have on U.S. Middle East policy? You know as well as I do that theyre not the same thing.

I actually did some work in a roundabout way on an interview with Omar, and she seemed a very interesting woman with an important perspective to share. But I haven't come across anything she said that was blatantly antisemtic, but perhaps there are cases where it may have been a little more subtle, but then again, it would be pretty ridiculous for the right to call out antisemitism when they so often turn a blind eye when it manifests so viciously in their own rank and file.

I know, there’s a clear definition between anti-semitism and criticising Israel, having written on the Arab-Israeli conflict and Jewish settlements quite extensively. As far as I am concerned; supporting Hamas and/or the complete delegitimisation of the Israeli state is blatantly anti-Semitic.



These comments were in reference to Israeli responding to Hamas attacks. There are some elements of the left that treat Hamas as heroes or wilfully ignore their killing of civilians. They take the left’s general pro-Palestinian leanings and take it way too far.

Next:

In March, Rep. Omar is headed to California to speak at CAIR’s Los Angeles dinner. There she will appear alongside CAIR’s Florida boss Hassan Shibly who has defended Hamas and vocally praised Hezbollah. “Israel & it’s supporters are enemies of God and humanity!” he had tweeted.

While CAIR itself is debatable, it does contain strong elements that are linked to the Muslim Brotherhood and other anti-Semitic elements.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I know, there’s a clear definition between anti-semitism and criticising Israel, having written on the Arab-Israeli conflict and Jewish settlements quite extensively. As far as I am concerned; supporting Hamas and/or the complete delegitimisation of the Israeli state is blatantly anti-Semitic.



These comments were in reference to Israeli responding to Hamas attacks. There are some elements of the left that treat Hamas as heroes or wilfully ignore their killing of civilians. They take the left’s general pro-Palestinian leanings and take it way too far.

Next:

In March, Rep. Omar is headed to California to speak at CAIR’s Los Angeles dinner. There she will appear alongside CAIR’s Florida boss Hassan Shibly who has defended Hamas and vocally praised Hezbollah. “Israel & it’s supporters are enemies of God and humanity!” he had tweeted.

While CAIR itself is debatable, it does contain strong elements that are linked to the Muslim Brotherhood and other anti-Semitic elements.

Being invited to speak at an event where other speakers have questionable views is not anti-semetic, pointing out that Israel has done and continue to do some seriously abhorrent s**t is not anti-semetic.

And to add, questioning the validity of Israel is not anti-semetic, moreso anti-zionist. Jews don't own the semite tag so its hard for a semite like Omar to hate her own kind. However, that broadly palistinians now hate Jews is hardly surprising given the way in which their Zionist semite brothers and sisters treated them over the last century. They are the powerless and dispossessed in this issue, using what they can find to fight an invading nation state that has international backing. That the Zionist state of Israel has to deal with the likes of Hezbollah and Hamas is a rod they have made for their own backs and the situation is no different to any other nation level occupation. Where peoples lives have been massively and negatively impacted by a largely foreign invasive force thel locals will eventually organise and fight back.

Saying this does not make me anti-semetic. Israel ain't going anywhere so neither is this s**t, but given Israel are the power state in this coupling it is they who will need to hold out the olive branch first, a real olive branch and not some public show of intent whilst continuing to steal lands from the Palestininans.

Questioning Israels motives is also not anti-semetic but that the term is used when people do so highlights how well they control the narrative around this conflict.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Being invited to speak at an event where other speakers have questionable views is not anti-semetic, pointing out that Israel has done and continue to do some seriously abhorrent s**t is not anti-semetic.

In the case of that specific tweet, she responded to Israel having the nerve to shut down rocket sites in Gaza that were killing civilians back in 2012. Funny how only the evils of Israel are mentioned in her tweet or any other of her tweets, not the actions of Hamas.

Accepting to speak, not just being invited, at an event with questionable speakers, hosted by a very questionable group, is not a ringing endorsement of her support of the Jewish faith.

I could go into the recent lobbying issue and her insinuations in regards Jewish stereotypes about money, but that's a much more complex issue. Let's just say her own party called her out on the issue.

 

[Val Keating]

[QUOTE="Val Keating, post: 59581710, member: 186105"

Yeah I understand all that, but, could a future president use the same tactics used by Trump to build his wall to circumnavigate the NRA and the Congressional members corrupted by the NRA and other organisations to finally do something about gun control in America?

Bloody bureaucracy getting in the way of common sense again. I’m not smart enough to figure out another way apart from some totalitarian regime coming in and abolishing it, but we all know how that would end up.

 

[GarnerSmash]

In the case of that specific tweet, she responded to Israel having the nerve to shut down rocket sites in Gaza that were killing civilians back in 2012. Funny how only the evils of Israel are mentioned in her tweet or any other of her tweets, not the actions of Hamas.

Accepting to speak, not just being invited, at an event with questionable speakers, hosted by a very questionable group, is not a ringing endorsement of her support of the Jewish faith.

I could go into the recent lobbying issue and her insinuations in regards Jewish stereotypes about money, but that's a much more complex issue. Let's just say her own party called her out on the issue.

The tweet reads as a general statement of fact to me. The powerless need someone to speak up for them, to bring some kind of balance to the public narrative.

So pointing out that lobbyists use cash to win over politicians is anti-semetic now? This too is a statement of fact. That the dems called her out on it is not surprising given the ability to have a nuanced conversation on any issue in the public realm in the US is zero. Face must be saved. It also highlights just how toxic it is for a public figure to criticise Israel and a clear indication of just how completely they have won the battle for the control of the narrative.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Being invited to speak at an event where other speakers have questionable views is not anti-semetic, pointing out that Israel has done and continue to do some seriously abhorrent s**t is not anti-semetic.

And to add, questioning the validity of Israel is not anti-semetic, moreso anti-zionist. Jews don't own the semite tag so its hard for a semite like Omar to hate her own kind. However, that broadly palistinians now hate Jews is hardly surprising given the way in which their Zionist semite brothers and sisters treated them over the last century. They are the powerless and dispossessed in this issue, using what they can find to fight an invading nation state that has international backing. That the Zionist state of Israel has to deal with the likes of Hezbollah and Hamas is a rod they have made for their own backs and the situation is no different to any other nation level occupation. Where peoples lives have been massively and negatively impacted by a largely foreign invasive force thel locals will eventually organise and fight back.

Saying this does not make me anti-semetic. Israel ain't going anywhere so neither is this s**t, but given Israel are the power state in this coupling it is they who will need to hold out the olive branch first, a real olive branch and not some public show of intent whilst continuing to steal lands from the Palestininans.

Questioning Israels motives is also not anti-semetic but that the term is used when people do so highlights how well they control the narrative around this conflict.

You made me respond twice.

Anti-Zionism, in its truest sense, has deep historical and contemporary linkages to antisemitism. For a basic example, the conflation of anti-Jewish stereotypes with modern anti-Zionism, i.e. the manipulative 'Jewish lobby,' the Jewish/Zionist 'world conspiracy,' and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers, etc. Even your comments about the controlling the narrative have veiled linkages (not that I am suggesting that you are anti-Semitic or anything like that). The fact that we are well aware of the Palestinian situation is testament to the fact that the Jews do not control the message. In saying that, I acknowledge that it is a very debatable point and Zionism itself is taken to the extreme by Zionist ultra-nationalist literature and rhetoric, so I'll leave that point alone.

I never said the Palestinians were not entirely unjustified in their actions or their hatred; those are issues dating back to the original Jewish migrations after the Russian pogroms of the 1800s and you could even argue before. The Balfour Declaration and its aftermath really set off the chain of events that have led us to the current situation. The Palestinians have historically had the rough end of the stick, even during Ottoman times. Sure the Israeli's have had international backing, but a number of Arab powers have often (some still do) backed the Palestinians (they were seen/treated as tools for the Arab powers) during the first Arab-Israeli war, the Six-Day's War and the Yom Kippur War.

These reasons are why I often support the actions of the PLO, but not Hamas. Hamas are war mongers in every sense of the word and have continually disrupted the peace process via terrorist actions. Between Hamas, historical grievances and Jewish settlements (as well as the occasional over the top Israeli military actions), the likelihood of the two-state solution succeeding in a lasting peace is a long way off.

I would never say you would be anti-Semitic, but if you support an active terror group that spouts out Nazi-like rhetoric, weakens peace attempts and happily kills civilians based on their allegiance to the Jewish state and/or religion, then you would be pretty close.

Again, I never said questioning Israeli motives was anti-semitic and that was not what Omar was doing.

 

[GarnerSmash]

You made me respond twice.

Anti-Zionism, in its truest sense, has deep historical and contemporary linkages to anti-antisemitism. For a basic example, the conflation of anti-Jewish stereotypes with modern anti-Zionism, i.e. the manipulative 'Jewish lobby,' the Jewish/Zionist 'world conspiracy,' and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers, etc. Even your comments about the controlling the narrative have veiled linkages (not that I am suggesting that you are anti-Semitic or anything like that). The fact that we are well aware of the Palestinian situation is testament to the fact that the Jews do not control the message. In saying that, I acknowledge that it is a very debatable point and Zionism itself is taken to the extreme by Zionist ultra-nationalist literature and rhetoric, so I'll leave that point alone.

I never said the Palestinians were not entirely unjustified in their actions or their hatred; those are issues dating back to the original Jewish migrations after the Russian pogroms of the 1800s and you could even argue before. The Balfour Declaration and its aftermath really set off the chain of events that have led us to the current situation. The Palestinians have historically had the rough end of the stick, even during Ottoman times. Sure the Israeli's have had international backing, but a number of Arab powers have often (some still do) backed the Palestinians (they were seen/treated as tools for the Arab powers) during the first Arab-Israeli war, the Six-Day's War and the Yom Kippur War.

These reasons are why I often support the actions of the PLO, but not Hamas. Hamas are war mongers in every sense of the word and have continually disrupted the peace process via terrorist actions. Between Hamas, historical grievances and Jewish settlements (as well as the occasional over the top Israeli military actions), the likelihood of the two-state solution succeeding in a lasting peace is a long way off.

I would never say you would be anti-Semitic, but if you support an active terror group that spouts out Nazi-like rhetoric, weakens peace attempts and happily kills civilians based on their allegiance to the Jewish state and/or religion, then you would be pretty close.

Again, I never said questioning Israeli motives was anti-semitic and that was not what Omar was doing.

All good points and i think we can leave the links to far right/left views aside here and speak plainly. It is unquestionable that Israel control the real-politik of this issue and it is this that i think important to point out. Most folk don't think past their nose on this issue so that ownership of the real-politik landscape is real power to dominate the broader public discourse, hence the outrage at Omar's lobbyist tweet. To find that tweet racist one would have to think she was racist before. Other than a few anti Israel tweets is there any real statement of racist intent from her on public record?

 

[Gasometer]

Visited the local newsagencies over summer looking for the Rolling Stone Annual.

Found out this morning that it died last January when the Parent Company went bankrupt.

Suppose my string for Rolling Stone Annuals from 1986 might be worth something to someone on ebay...or not

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

The tweet reads as a general statement of fact to me. The powerless need someone to speak up for them, to bring some kind of balance to the public narrative.

So pointing out that lobbyists use cash to win over politicians is anti-semetic now? This too is a statement of fact. That the dems called her out on it is not surprising given the ability to have a nuanced conversation on any issue in the public realm in the US is zero. Face must be saved. It also highlights just how toxic it is for a public figure to criticise Israel and a clear indication of just how completely they have won the battle for the control of the narrative.

That strikes me as a purely anecdotal perspective. Extensive academic literature and media attention has been paid to the Palestinian situation and the wider socio-historical circumstances surrounding the conflict.

If you want to get into the lobbying stuff. No, I don't think her actual points about lobbying were anti-semitic in nature; she's actually quite spot on about that point about the degree of influence. American politicians are quite 'pig-headed' on the issue of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the influence the Jewish lobbyists have. This is where the complexity comes in for me as I borrow an argument from the left side of the political spectrum. It is that she takes her points too far and deliberately exaggerated the extent to which Jewish money dominates American politics, when the issue is a lot more complicated than that. Jewish-Democratic linkages go back to the formation of American unions, links to Jewish-American unionism, historical linkages to the Democratic party, historical links to the early civil rights movements, etc. My concern with Omar's comments are linked to the old Nazi theory about Jewish money and global influence via deliberate exaggeration.

All good points and i think we can leave the links to far right/left views aside here and speak plainly. It is unquestionable that Israel control the real-politik of this issue and it is this that i think important to point out. Most folk don't think past their nose on this issue so that ownership of the real-politik landscape is real power to dominate the broader public discourse, hence the outrage at Omar's lobbyist tweet. To find that tweet racist one would have to think she was racist before. Other than a few anti Israel tweets is there any real statement of racist intent from her on public record?

Funnily enough, this argument shares some parallels with my earlier arguments over whether Trump is a racist or not. Outside a few tweets and varied historical linkages, nothing really public for her. I suppose it comes down to your own views and beliefs about the wider conflict and whether you think history is repeating itself in a new veiled form or not.

I do agree in the American situation, that there is great influence and there is a degree of media management on behalf of the Jewish lobbyists and their political supporters. However, as I noted above, the issue is a lot more complex than merely Jewish money and religious linkages. In the Australian context, the left wing here is generally very pro-Palestinian and we seem to generate good intellectual arguments about the issues. The British situation shares some similarities with the American situation, but even there, the situation is openly discussed and is not such a big issue for British politicians, despite deep British historical links to the Palestinian lands and the current situation.

 

[GarnerSmash]

FYI my understanding of this conflict is not anecdotal yet my statement that generated that response still stands.

 

[Val Keating]

How bloody awesomely random is it that on a website for Australian footy fans a conversation like above is carried out.

I really want to believe there’s a similar conversation going on in a Mongolia Wrestling forum.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

How bloody awesomely random is it that on a website for Australian footy fans a conversation like above is carried out.

I really want to believe there’s a similar conversation going on in a Mongolia Wrestling forum.

Most of them would be complaining about Chinese companies ravaging Mongolian lands.

 

[Val Keating]

Most of them would be complaining about Chinese companies ravaging Mongolian lands.

Not like the good old days ey

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Not like the good old days ey

I miss the Golden Horde, dem were the days.

 

[Val Keating]

I miss the Golden Horde, dem were the days.

Where’s a Khan when you need one? Oh you’re taller then a wagon wheel, sorry off with your head.

 

[Gasometer]

Most of them would be complaining about Chinese companies ravaging Mongolian lands.

Or random airports

In the middle of nowhere

 

[Gasometer]

Crawford Nien was never going to win a 10 show no matter how crap or good the tv show was

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Snake_Baker]

Hey Everyone, doing a short 8 question survey on Virtual Reality and footy. Should only take 30 seconds, would appreciate it if some of you could give it a go! https://betheresports.typeform.com/to/lmawvZ
Happy to answer any questions and discussion also!

The entire AFL media is virtual reality.

 

[King Corey]

If the man in Sydney who dealt with a home intruder goes anywhere near a manslaughter charge, the justice system is funked.

 

[giantroo]

A horse protects it's owner from a raging cow.

 

[Groin guru]

No, I merely accurately included it in a list of things that are part of Trumpism.

Good but Alex Jones and I have been talking about Globalists since pre-trump. Soros and the global deep state won't turn us into 1984 lifeless blobs without a fight. We are the resistance! If we lose the battle remember us when you've got a shaved head, wearing grey, and have cameras in your house analysing all of your movements and conversations!

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Good but Alex Jones and I have been talking about Globalists since pre-trump. Soros and the global deep state won't turn us into 1984 lifeless blobs without a fight. We are the resistance! If we lose the battle remember us when you've got a shaved head, wearing grey, and have cameras in your house analysing all of your movements and conversations!

View attachment 621268

Even I think Jones is a near-complete nut jub and this coming from RWNJ, at least that's what RobZ calls me...