News Port Adelaide announces co-captains - Ollie Wines and Tom Jonas
- Thread starter Ford Fairlane
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Cornes first "broke" the news on Feb 23, we were already talking about it here before that. I don't doubt that your sources might be correct in saying players are divided, but that is just a reflection of of the general supporter base, not an indication that their indecision had driven the decision to go co-captains.
I am def not in favor of it, but I am not losing my crap over out either.
To me the worst form of leadership is not making a wrong decision, it’s making no decision.
Make a decision FFS.
Pick one and support him.
Stuff me it’s not rocket science.
Make a decision FFS.
Pick one and support him.
Stuff me it’s not rocket science.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
That's not correct re 2005.
I was going to write about the swans in 2005 because of what Koch has said, but your post has prompted me to get off my arse and do it.
Stuart Maxfield was the swans captain in 2005. Here is a cut an paste from their Honour Roll page. If Stuart Maxfield had been fit enough to play in September, it would be his picture holding up the cup that everyone would remember, not Barry Hall's.
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/club/History/honour-roll
Year Captain Coach Club Champion Rising Star Most Improved Best Clubman Players' Player Leading Goalkicker
http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/club/History/honour-roll
I lived in Sydney between 1992-2010 with two short stints in SE Qld.
When I moved to Sydney in May 1992, I arrived on a Tuesday and went to the SCG on the Sunday and it was the first of 26 games in a row the swans lost and between then and late1994 they had won 3 of 50 games before they won 2 of the last 6 games. I think I missed 2 swans home games in that 2.5 seasons.
They were incompetent, but they were smart enough to appoint a 23 year old plumber from Wagga, Paul Kelly skipper at the start of 1993. Kelly grew into a great leader both on an off the field, even when Roos and Lockett came into Sydney, he lead the way.
When Stuart Maxfield came to Sydney in 1996 I thought he was a soft, play out wide, wing man who had a nice kick, but was flaky. But he got close to Kelly, turned himself into a piece of granite like Kelly, and became a hard tough leader on and off the field. Maxfield got very little publicity in Sydney and bugger all outside Sydney, but when I went to swans after match functions, after Maxfield had been there a couple of year, he was highly regarded by players, officials and supporters closer to the swans than me.
Paul Roos spoke to Ray McLean at the end of 2002 season when Roos had finished his caretaker stint at the swans, hadn't been appointed coach, Terry Wallace had been rumoured to have already been told he had the job. Roos said if he got the job he wanted to get McLean in to help. Roos got the job and appointed Peter Jonas as assistant coach. Jonas insisted they get McLean in as they had worked together when Jonas coached Centrals for 3 or 4 years culminating in the 2000 flag Centrals first.
It was at the 2002/03 pre season camp the Sydney under Roos and Maxfield assisted by McLean and his team that has set up the swans culture and attitude to footy and being successful, not 2 captains.
At the camp McLean did his usual bit and asked the players how they wanted to be seen by the opposition and the footy world. It was a young player who stepped forward and said that in the 1930's and 1940's the swans were know as the Bloods and were successful and made finals and grand finals. So BLOODS was written down on the top of the piece of paper along with 4 or 5 other key words and half a dozen or so agreed behaviours the players would adhere to. Apparently that piece of paper is still with the swans footy ops department.
So the swans looked back to their history and traditions to help reform their club. Koch wants us to look at others, not back at our success to inspire us to improve.
[The swans nickname changed from Bloods to Swans, starting unofficially in 1933 or 1934 as they had recruited about 8 or 10 Western Australian players, the black swan was the WA state symbol and most came over to find work in the depression, and with the white swans of Lake Albert, next to their home ground, they made an official change at the end of the decade.]
It took them 3 years to succeed. They went up in 2003, then down in 2004, then up in the third year.
But look at their leaders. Paul Roos was a great player who played the game like he was an on field general. He is a progressive bloke, married a progressive woman from California, the home of new age ideas. But when he finished footy he went and spent a year in USA so his kids could be close to the grand parents, but Roos went travelling around US doing some stuff with USAFL, but also visiting many teams in the 4 professional sports and learnt from them and continued visiting teams in US once he got the coaching gig after 3 years as Eades's assistant. Hinkley spent the off season in the USA for the first time in 4 or 5 prseasons because he doesn't like travelling/flying that much.
Richard Colless was the first chairman of an independent WAFL board in 1984 which became the WAFC a few years later moved to Sydney in 1993 was appointed to the swans board and became chairman in 1994 and helped restructure the club. But he understood the game as was a 200 game player, coach, secretary and president of Uni of WA footy club in Perth in the 1960's, 70's and early 80's.
Remember Colless had supposedly appointed Wallace as coach, but people power said no way, we want Roos as coach and he indeed got the job. And in 2002 the AFL had 100% control of the swans after the Weinert/Willesee consortium handed back the licence mid 1993. The swans constitution changed in 2005 and club members got to vote on 2 board members - think of 8 at the time.
Compare them to Hinkley and Koch!!
KT has been at the club 7.5 years and at Sydney it was Kelvin Tempelton (1996-2002) Miles Baron Hayes (2003-09) and Andrew Ireland (2010-18)
For the record Stuart Maxfield broke down after 6 or 7 games in 2005. He hoped to get back from injury but he knew he wouldn't make it. Maxfield had split with his wife before the injury and she moved back to Melbourne with the kids. So Maxfield started spending the first few days of the week living in Melbourne and flew up to Sydney to train from Thursday's. When he saw this was unsustainable he resigned as captain and the swans appointed 3 replacement captains in Barry Hall, Leo Barry and Brett Kirk to pick up the slack, share the load.
They won the flag and it looks like its a successful model, but it was the stuff done at the 2002/03 preseason camp that set them up and they needed 3 blokes mid season to replace Maxfield.
For 2017 and 2018 Josh Kennedy was appointed the sole captain of the swans.
I don't think its as simple as taking a carbon copy of the swans to be successful, because the underlying people and issues are different.
This is what annoys me. We obviously have leadership issues if by end of Feb and still not one person has stood out as a clear leader. Leaders are just that, they naturally posses the qualities. Grooming leaders will fail. How did Ablett work for the Suns? Just give it to Jonas and move on....
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
If we do go with co-captains I don't want either of them wearing #1. As others have said, two captains is essentially no captain. And if we really do rate one of Wines or Jonas as more 'worthy' of the #1 than the other, then just make that one captain and the other one VC.
Waspy79
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Haha let's break the #1 tradition that was actually broken last year anyway because we are breaking another tradition. Ports.
chiwigi
I’ll make tears from your Wines.
Which now looks even shitter than it did then, was it a softening up exercise?
Nah, they aren't that competent.
Perhaps it’s far from being unanimous and decided.
If they had decided on who the co captains would be (clearly Jonas and Wines) and it was unanimous to have co captains you’d think they’d of done it already?
I’d say they are either waiting for as close to the season becouse they know the member won’t be happy, so we don’t dwell on it to much and get distracted by the actual football being played.
Or, what I’m more hopeful of is there are people that don’t want co captains and are digging there feet in and want to stick with tradition.
Apparently it is.
Last time there was no number 1 out there we won the flag. Let's hope history repeats...
bomberclifford
Importer/Exporter
You're not seriously trying to equate a one off thing aimed at raising awareness about childhood cancer to 'breaking tradition' are you?
PepeSilvia
Norm Smith Medallist
I've said previously that I don't particularly care whether we have a single captain or co-captains, but my opinion has been changed by this thread.
I'm now actively rooting for co-captains because of the insane, over the top melts that would be generated.
I'm now actively rooting for co-captains because of the insane, over the top melts that would be generated.
chiwigi
I’ll make tears from your Wines.
Never said it wasn't important, just saying that there's a large number of people here to seem keen to froth about anything if it means they can say the club is s**t and needs a clean out.
chiwigi
I’ll make tears from your Wines.
All I see are people pointing out it's a s**t decision with very little evidence to back it made by a massively under performing team.
Those in favour asked to provide evidence for the veracity of the change then resort to name calling and spite as there is no valid answer other than 'trust the club', the same club that is massively underachieving. All seems reasonable to me.
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
The way I see it, it's just the opposite. The only way of preserving the #1 tradition is by leaving it vacant until we have a sole captain again.
If Ollie Wines and Tom Jonas are made co-captains, then as far as I'm concerned we don't have a captain. The #1 tradition doesn't die if our captain doesn't wear #1, we've had plenty of games where our captain didn't wear #1, Warren Tredrea even captained us to a premiership while not wearing #1. The #1 tradition dies when somebody who isn't our captain wears #1. And if we have co-captains, then we don't have a captain, so neither of them should have the right to wear it.
Janus
Advocatus Diaboli
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Still want Hartlett. Looking at how dedicated he was to his rehab and the effort he put in - you’d die for that mothe*er.
If there's no #1 we don't have a Captain in my eyes. And if we have co-captains and one wears the #1, then that's the only Captain in my eyes.
bomberclifford
Importer/Exporter
Doctor Feel
Shitposter In Chief
Easily the best picture of a port player.
bomberclifford
Importer/Exporter
efa
Took me a while but very good.
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