The best midfield

[gopies1981]

Best midfield is Collingwood. We have 8 players that can easily play in the midfield.

In 2 years time Melbourne’s midfield will be scary tho but at the present time they are the second best midfield
My rankings would be;

Top Tier
1. Collingwood
2. Melbourne

Middle tier
3. Richmond
4. West Coast
5. GWS
6. Adelaide
7. Essendon
8. Geelong
9. Western Bulldogs

The other clubs are pretty average in the midfield imo

 

[FlowersByIrene]

North have a decent engine room

A 30 year old Higgins, an above average inside midfield in Cunington, a bloke who would be dropped if he wasn't the captain in Ziebell, a bloke who was just dropped from the Suns in Hall and who exactly?

North have one of the worst midfields in the league.

 

[tony__montana]

A 30 year old Higgins, an above average inside midfield in Cunington, a bloke who would be dropped if he wasn't the captain in Ziebell, a bloke who was just dropped from the Suns in Hall and who exactly?

North have one of the worst midfields in the league.

Higgins is in career best form and one of the best mids in the comp the past couple of seasons.
Cunners is underrated imo
Polec is a prolific outside runner
Anderson has played some pretty decent footy
Tyson will be a handy rotation running through the guts
Ahern showed a bit last year and should go on with it
Jacobs one of the best taggers in the game

Hall granted is hot and cold and a cream on top player, plus a few kids coming through

Not elite, but bat fairly deep with their rotations and showed they can hold their own on the inside - now theyve added a bit of run as well.

Agree to disagree, dont even know why Im putting so much thought into Norths engine room tbh lol. This pre season is dragging..

 

[IsDONisGood333]

1. Melbourne
2. Collingwood
3. West Coast
4. GWS
5. Richmond
6. Adelaide
7. Essendon
8. Western Bulldogs
9. Brisbane
10. Geelong
11. North Melbourne
12. Sydney
13. Port Adelaide
14. Hawthorn*
15. Fremantle
16. St Kilda
17. Carlton
18. Gold Coast

*Rated low because of Mitchell injury, if he wasn’t injured, Hawthorn would be rated 6th or 7th

 

[Football God]

I am worried about the Pies, Demons, GWS, WC and Tigers midfield (based on the last year). The rest of the teams were really no threat to the Hawks in influencing the result.

What about Brisbane?

 

[Obeanie1]

They cut us up at Spotless by controlling posession between the arcs.. Just superior skill. It was a more dominant win than the scoreboard showed as I watched it. Optus was a more even contest.

They turn the ball over in defence a lot and if they can transition effectively you ain't beating them.

I rate their defence more than their midfield as being the instigator though.


I think the issue is our strength is the contested ball that area and they denied us the contest where we wanted it.

To beat West Coast we would have to zone better and force them to a contest along the wings in the centre of the ground. We weren't good enough to do that last year.

The Eagles style now is a lot like the traditional Saint Mary's in the AFLNT. This club is the most successful in Australia with the number of flags won and gun players produced.

Their style was to move the ball quickly by foot and kick to a player who is leading and free. The 15m pass was their signature play so if you went with the lead it opened space behind them. If you held back they just kick it to the free player leading with a 15m pass. Controlled the game, keep the ball off the oppositon and when the space is there go long inside 50.

Only very fit, fast and very good sides could get close to the Saints. But at their peak no one could get close.

 

[adammania9]

A 30 year old Higgins, an above average inside midfield in Cunington, a bloke who would be dropped if he wasn't the captain in Ziebell, a bloke who was just dropped from the Suns in Hall and who exactly?

North have one of the worst midfields in the league.

More like:

Goldstein - still a top tier ruck with plenty of fuel in the tank. With an improved midfield around him, I doubt he’ll drop off anytime soon.

Higgins - an undisputedly elite balanced midfielder. Did you see him play last year? He had a very very good season.

Cunnington - an elite clearance mid who doesn’t have to do too much else given the abilities of his teammates.

Tyson - maybe a stretch but looking at his 2016-17 stats, it wouldn’t be too far fetched to suggest he replicate Prestia’s role and importance at Richmond.

Dumont - young versatile winger who finished the year in sublime form, recording 30+ a handful of times. After inconsistency in his first few years, he looks set to really take off.

Polec - a player most had in AA discussions for much of the past two years. His run and class is everything North have lacked for years.

Jacobs - the best pure tagger in the game. His scalps just last year include Oliver, Martin and Mitchell. He also proved to be a big ball winner at times too, highlighted by a BOG performance against Fremantle.

Anderson - another hard-running defensive wingman who tackles for fun. Last year, a lot on this website suggested him as being one of the league’s most improved.

Hall - scrutinised for his lack of accountability with the ball in opposition hands, with a strong defensive midfield playing around him that he didn’t really have at the Suns, his run and carry should allow him to play career best footy.

Then Ziebell, Atley and Simpkin can and will pinch hit and are valuable in their own ways. And there’s heaps to look forward to in Ahern and Davies-Uniacke, the former who dropped jaws with his performance against the eventual premiers, the latter who was nearly the best player in his draft class two years ago.

North Melbourne have a good-looking midfield, particularly for its two way running. Hardly one of the league’s worst.

 

[Sprout]

More like:

Goldstein - still a top tier ruck with plenty of fuel in the tank. With an improved midfield around him, I doubt he’ll drop off anytime soon.

Higgins - an undisputedly elite balanced midfielder. Did you see him play last year? He had a very very good season.

Cunnington - an elite clearance mid who doesn’t have to do too much else given the abilities of his teammates.

Tyson - maybe a stretch but looking at his 2016-17 stats, it wouldn’t be too far fetched to suggest he replicate Prestia’s role and importance at Richmond.

Dumont - young versatile winger who finished the year in sublime form, recording 30+ a handful of times. After inconsistency in his first few years, he looks set to really take off.

Polec - a player most had in AA discussions for much of the past two years. His run and class is everything North have lacked for years.

Jacobs - the best pure tagger in the game. His scalps just last year include Oliver, Martin and Mitchell. He also proved to be a big ball winner at times too, highlighted by a BOG performance against Fremantle.

Anderson - another hard-running defensive wingman who tackles for fun. Last year, a lot on this website suggested him as being one of the league’s most improved.

Hall - scrutinised for his lack of accountability with the ball in opposition hands, with a strong defensive midfield playing around him that he didn’t really have at the Suns, his run and carry should allow him to play career best footy.

Then Ziebell, Atley and Simpkin can and will pinch hit and are valuable in their own ways. And there’s heaps to look forward to in Ahern and Davies-Uniacke, the former who dropped jaws with his performance against the eventual premiers, the latter who was nearly the best player in his draft class two years ago.

North Melbourne have a good-looking midfield, particularly for its two way running. Hardly one of the league’s worst.

On paper that stands up with most midfields in the league. Labelling it one of the worst is idiotic.

They are perhaps an elite inside mid short though I'll be watching with interest to see how Tyson goes in a role that plays to his strengths. Has had a few injury problems but in theory he is at his footballing peak right now.

 

[Topkent]

Hannabal is all about the stats.

Except the ones that dont suit his agenda.

He gets off pumping up his team and his ego from 2018 stats. Even though the Dees were ranked as enjoying the easiest draw out of all sides in 2018 he thinks an easy draw does not affect stats at all.

When someone challenges him he quickly resorts to name calling and other school yard bully boy tactics. Its funny for a while.

Dees are on the right tragectory sure but I will reserve judgement until the end of this season. No easy draw in 2019 ranked 5th difficult so we will get a much better look at their premiership credentials. Wont be surprised which way they go TBH. They should be entering their peak in the next 2-3 years but I tend to doubt sides and clubs who tanked for draft picks. Also have several top line players returning from surgery.

You keep referencing the draw like your David King, tell me then Melbourne finished 5th? Which teams below us were better than us?

 

[Topkent]

More like:

Goldstein - still a top tier ruck with plenty of fuel in the tank. With an improved midfield around him, I doubt he’ll drop off anytime soon.

Higgins - an undisputedly elite balanced midfielder. Did you see him play last year? He had a very very good season.

Cunnington - an elite clearance mid who doesn’t have to do too much else given the abilities of his teammates.

Tyson - maybe a stretch but looking at his 2016-17 stats, it wouldn’t be too far fetched to suggest he replicate Prestia’s role and importance at Richmond.

Dumont - young versatile winger who finished the year in sublime form, recording 30+ a handful of times. After inconsistency in his first few years, he looks set to really take off.

Polec - a player most had in AA discussions for much of the past two years. His run and class is everything North have lacked for years.

Jacobs - the best pure tagger in the game. His scalps just last year include Oliver, Martin and Mitchell. He also proved to be a big ball winner at times too, highlighted by a BOG performance against Fremantle.

Anderson - another hard-running defensive wingman who tackles for fun. Last year, a lot on this website suggested him as being one of the league’s most improved.

Hall - scrutinised for his lack of accountability with the ball in opposition hands, with a strong defensive midfield playing around him that he didn’t really have at the Suns, his run and carry should allow him to play career best footy.

Then Ziebell, Atley and Simpkin can and will pinch hit and are valuable in their own ways. And there’s heaps to look forward to in Ahern and Davies-Uniacke, the former who dropped jaws with his performance against the eventual premiers, the latter who was nearly the best player in his draft class two years ago.

North Melbourne have a good-looking midfield, particularly for its two way running. Hardly one of the league’s worst.

You can tell which bloke actually watches footy and which bloke bases his analysis off half a game every season

 

[Upgrayedd]

I like Melbourne right now

Sure, They got smashed by WCE over here, There is a lot to like. Angus/Viney can have the ball and be damaging, or be gritty ******* workers if things are not going either players way. Not going to say either are the quality of the elites in the comp. But you would want a team of 22 players with either and you dont even think about dropping a game

Oliver is flawed but a powerhouse at winning the ball, Same as Jones. Then you have guys like Vandenberg whos so under-rated, Probably the best ruck in the game, Fritsch as well. harmes ect. They have a lot of good depth

WCE is probably the best, Schuey is a monster, Gaff is the best outside player of the comp. Yeo is continually slept on. Hes a top 15 player in the AFL. Naitanui is a freak at the center bounce and then the grunt work


1-Mebourne
2-WCE
3-GWS
4-Collingwood
5-Richmond
Thats my top 5.

 

[Obeanie1]

You keep referencing the draw like your David King, tell me then Melbourne finished 5th? Which teams below us were better than us?

That isnt the point.

IMO an easy draw in 2018 helped improve Melbourne's stats. So using thise stats as KPIs is somewhat flawed when compared to stats of a side with a more difficult draw.

That is the debate. Nothing to do with a discussion on where Melbourne finished on the ladder. That is another conversation entirely.

 

[Obeanie1]

I like Melbourne right now

Sure, They got smashed by WCE over here, There is a lot to like. Angus/Viney can have the ball and be damaging, or be gritty ******* workers if things are not going either players way. Not going to say either are the quality of the elites in the comp. But you would want a team of 22 players with either and you dont even think about dropping a game

Oliver is flawed but a powerhouse at winning the ball, Same as Jones. Then you have guys like Vandenberg whos so under-rated, Probably the best ruck in the game, Fritsch as well. harmes ect. They have a lot of good depth

WCE is probably the best, Schuey is a monster, Gaff is the best outside player of the comp. Yeo is continually slept on. Hes a top 15 player in the AFL. Naitanui is a freak at the center bounce and then the grunt work


1-Mebourne
2-WCE
3-GWS
4-Collingwood
5-Richmond
Thats my top 5.

Why do you think Oliver is flawed?

Id rate him close to their best mid.

Apart from a couple of embarrassing dives behind play he is a very good footballer. Just needs to play football and give away the acting career.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Why do you think Oliver is flawed?

Id rate him close to their best mid.

Apart from a couple of embarrassing dives behind play he is a very good footballer. Just needs to play football and give away the acting career.

I kinda give him a pass a bit for those things. He was a precociously talented teenager trying to assert himself any way he could.

Maturity should fix those things, with the influence if senior players like Jones. Honestly I think he did mature last year and focus on what matters more.

 

[Hannabal]

That isnt the point.

IMO an easy draw in 2018 helped improve Melbourne's stats. So using thise stats as KPIs is somewhat flawed when compared to stats of a side with a more difficult draw.

That is the debate. Nothing to do with a discussion on where Melbourne finished on the ladder. That is another conversation entirely.

I've already shown you that we played the bottom six 9 times and the top eight 8 times, which is exactly the same as Collingwood. We played Gold Coast twice and Carlton once and Collingwood played Carlton twice and Gold Coast once, which evened things out.

West Coast played the bottom six eight times.

Your obsession with the draw is drastically overplayed.

I also outlined that we beat Adelaide in Adelaide, while West Coast couldn't.

We beat North, West Coast couldn't.

We beat Essendon, West Coast couldn't.

Basing your views on Melbourne based on the draw lacks intellectual rigour.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Why do you think Oliver is flawed?

Id rate him close to their best mid.

Apart from a couple of embarrassing dives behind play he is a very good footballer. Just needs to play football and give away the acting career.

Hes not a complete footballer. Hes very one sided and is prone to turn the ball over if force him into a position to kick it on his left

Still a ******* beast of a player and one of the best midfielders in the game. Nothing against him. Still has some glaring weaknesses however hes got plenty of time

 

[Obeanie1]

I've already shown you that we played the bottom six 9 times and the top eight 8 times, which is exactly the same as Collingwood. We played Gold Coast twice and Carlton once and Collingwood played Carlton twice and Gold Coast once, which evened things out.

West Coast played the bottom six eight times.

Your obsession with the draw is drastically overplayed.

I also outlined that we beat Adelaide in Adelaide, while West Coast couldn't.

We beat North, West Coast couldn't.

We beat Essendon, West Coast couldn't.

Basing your views on Melbourne based on the draw lacks intellectual rigour.

You havent shown anything other than how to cherry pick stats or how to draw flawed conclusions from that stats you like.

Champion Data ranked the draw not me and not you. You can flip flop around all you like but in doing so you are ignorring the ranking provided by the same mob who provide the stats you prefer to use. That is cherry picking and shows a lack of integrity.

The draw level of difficulty calculation used by the professionals is a tad more complicated and robust that yours. And you have the arrogance to claim others lack intelligence!

It isnt a hard concept. You dont believe the ease or difficulty of the draw affects stats. I believe an easy draw inflates many stats and is a flaw when comparing one club to another.

So we will agree to dissagree.

 

[Dez!]

So Champion Data is wrong when it ranks our list number one but right when it ranks our draw? Good to know.

 

[footyfan1978]

Remember CD have guys like Seedsman rated elite but guns like Bonts, Selwood and Cripps not.
CD are good at taking stats but terrible at things like ranking lists based on such misguided ideas of elite and club draw rankings. Take those things with grain of salt.

 

[tony__montana]

So Champion Data is wrong when it ranks our list number one but right when it ranks our draw? Good to know.

Depends on what theyre arguing at the time

 

[Topkent]

That isnt the point.

IMO an easy draw in 2018 helped improve Melbourne's stats. So using thise stats as KPIs is somewhat flawed when compared to stats of a side with a more difficult draw.

That is the debate. Nothing to do with a discussion on where Melbourne finished on the ladder. That is another conversation entirely.

That's the question I'm asking you. You seem convinced we had this piss easy draw so who was better than us that finished below us?

In our last handful of games we beat WC in Perth
Adelaide in Adelaide
Went to the wire with Port in Adelaide
Beat GWS
Beat Hawks+Geelong in finals

We beat the best team at the hardest ground and beat 4th an 7th and 8th in the last month.

Instead of hiding behind stats like you are accusing others of, how about telling us What you think.

WHO deserved to finish above Melbourne?

 

[Topkent]

Hes not a complete footballer. Hes very one sided and is prone to turn the ball over if force him into a position to kick it on his left

Still a ******* beast of a player and one of the best midfielders in the game. Nothing against him. Still has some glaring weaknesses however hes got plenty of time

I can hardly even remember him kicking it on his left that's why he cops s**t for over handballing, he literally almost never gets caught dumping it on his left

 

[Hannabal]

You havent shown anything other than how to cherry pick stats or how to draw flawed conclusions from that stats you like.

Champion Data ranked the draw not me and not you. You can flip flop around all you like but in doing so you are ignorring the ranking provided by the same mob who provide the stats you prefer to use. That is cherry picking and shows a lack of integrity.

The draw level of difficulty calculation used by the professionals is a tad more complicated and robust that yours. And you have the arrogance to claim others lack intelligence!

It isnt a hard concept. You dont believe the ease or difficulty of the draw affects stats. I believe an easy draw inflates many stats and is a flaw when comparing one club to another.

So we will agree to dissagree.

How is showing that two teams, in this case Collingwood and Melbourne, have played the bottom six and the top eight the exact same amount of times ''cherry picking'' ?

One of the main reasons our draw was considered easier was Adelaide's fall from grace and we got to play them twice. And we beat them twice, including in Adelaide. But they still managed to beat YOU and Richmond.

Also, what percentage difference do you think the team with the easiest draw has in comparison to the team with the hardest draw ? Is it 5% ? Is it 12% ? Tell me what the actual difference is and why it's the incredible advantage that you've conjured up in your head.

 

[nahnah]

1 West Coast -proven mid-field champs, plus can add Gaff back into the side.
2 Collingwood -good last year, now better with Beams.
3 Melbourne -strong rucks and hard-nut on-ballers.
4 GWS -have lost some depth, but their main on-ball group is in their prime.
4 Adelaide -a risky call, but if both Crouch brothers can have a full season, they'll be strong on-ball.
5 Geelong -such top-end talent can't be ignored, but rucks are an issue.
6 Essendon -good outside movers of the ball. Shiel will help, but could do with an 'in and under' type.
7 North Melb -have strong ruck and clearance players and have recruited well in picking up some outside run.
8 Richmond -solid group, but rely too much on Martin. Rucks are a worry.

I pretty much agree with all of this except I would replace North with Western Bulldogs

 

[Hannabal]

You havent shown anything other than how to cherry pick stats or how to draw flawed conclusions from that stats you like.

Champion Data ranked the draw not me and not you. You can flip flop around all you like but in doing so you are ignorring the ranking provided by the same mob who provide the stats you prefer to use. That is cherry picking and shows a lack of integrity.

The draw level of difficulty calculation used by the professionals is a tad more complicated and robust that yours. And you have the arrogance to claim others lack intelligence!

It isnt a hard concept. You dont believe the ease or difficulty of the draw affects stats. I believe an easy draw inflates many stats and is a flaw when comparing one club to another.

So we will agree to dissagree.

Btw, I've been comparing Melbourne and Collingwood and you've been harping on about ''cherry picking'' and Melbourne having had the easiest draw as stated by CD.

Low and behold here's their three easiest positions with regards to the draw.

16. Collingwood +2 - (Made top four)
17. North Melbourne 0
18. Melbourne -11 (Made 4th to 8th)

I now have two observations: there was no cherry picking on my part, as evidenced by Collingwood also having a supposed easy draw. And you never bring up Collingwood's draw in any of your posts. You just conveniently bring up Melbourne.

Btw, I look forward to your analysis of the percentage differences in terms of degrees of difficulty in respective draws.