Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[Ray Donovan]

Unlike you (apparently) I have no interest in deleting the account of someone if they disagree with me.

And when the analysis is on the age demographic of a list I don't think you need to wait for the ball to be bounced. Not unless they're rolling out those new Time Paradox Sherrins again for the first never.

Goal posts are shifting

Seemed to be a large portion of conversation regarding top 4. And finals as barmy pointed out. So we are in a paradox for sure.

O.k yep so now we are talking about age demographic of the hypothetical next seasons list. And results will have no bearing on it don't even need to see football

we are done we can revisit after 22 rounds

Have a good one

 

[Ray Donovan]

I could be wrong but I've had the feeling it has had a lot to do with putting bums on seats and looking relevant(TOP 8 FINISHES) until the last of the money is locked in for the final stage of the revamp of KP.

2013 was a real chance
2016 was a chance

Either of those years if you made the grand final were winnable.

How long is a peice of string though 2013 I would say the players would feel they let one slip. From memory geelong kicked straight and the first half was very even Geelong led at 3 quarter time by 20 points. Hawthorn had a lot more scoring attempts but 4 goals in front the coach did his job players couldnt execute late.

2016 the prelim vs Sydney was frustrating because round 16 at Gmhba Sydney got in front early and were just too good.
Geelong 60
Sydney 98

__________________________________________
Prelim
Geelong 60
Sydney 97

7.2 to 0.5 first quarter ended the game perhaps Sydney were too good they were the bogey side.

I think in a prelim getting Belted twice the same way was the frustration the coaching panel needed to come up with a few more solutions.

Although sometimes your just not good enough it's pretty hard to tell you will never know. Probably why this thread has so many chapters the what if

 

[Vdubs]

2013 was a real chance
2016 was a chance

Either of those years if you made the grand final were winnable.

How long is a peice of string though 2013 I would say the players would feel they let one slip. From memory geelong kicked straight and the first half was very even Geelong led at 3 quarter time by 20 points. Hawthorn had a lot more scoring attempts but 4 goals in front the coach did his job players couldnt execute late.

2016 the prelim vs Sydney was frustrating because round 16 at Gmhba Sydney got in front early and were just too good.
Geelong 60
Sydney 98

__________________________________________
Prelim
Geelong 60
Sydney 97

7.2 to 0.5 first quarter ended the game perhaps Sydney were too good they were the bogey side.

I think in a prelim getting Belted twice the same way was the frustration the coaching panel needed to come up with a few more solutions.

Although sometimes your just not good enough it's pretty hard to tell you will never know. Probably why this thread has so many chapters the what if

Yet 12m later, we eliminated Swans with a thrashing. Bogey side? Not ongoing.
And 2010, we were humbled by Pies, yet 12m later, we beat them 3x.

 

[Landgraft]

The fact it’s happened 3 years in a row hasn’t helped.
Nothing worse building into the game and by 1/4 time it’s over.

No argument from me there. It has been a deeply uncomfortable set of finals to experience as a fan.

Teams can get blown away on the odd occasion and bounce back. However in our situation it wasn't a one of, it is a pattern of behaviour due to our structural and personnel deficiencies (players who lack skills and poise under pressure).

A lot of teams get blown away when they run out of gas, we get blown away when the game starts.

We are basically a seal vs a killer whale when it comes to finals. It's over at the start then they just play with us for a couple of quarters before finishing the job. The is an illusion that we could have won (or for the seal to escape).

You need to win 3 finals in a row to win a flag, we can barely win 1. We havent been close in a prelim since 2013 so I dont get where this "could have won" comes from.

Collingwood could have won the GF last year. Richmond could have. GWS a small chance. Melbourne, Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong all no chance.

5.2 32 vs 1.3 9
4.8 32 vs 0.3 3
3.6 24 vs 0.2 2
4.2 26 vs 1.0 6
7.3 45 vs 3.2 20
4.6 30 vs 2.4 16

Those are all QT scores from finals 2016-2018. None of them involved Geelong.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Yet 12m later, we eliminated Swans with a thrashing. Bogey side? Not ongoing.
And 2010, we were humbled by Pies, yet 12m later, we beat them 3x.

2016 dubs don't forget 1m later lost by 61 to the new bogey side adelaide lol
Round 3

 

[Frappe]

Yet 12m later, we eliminated Swans with a thrashing. Bogey side? Not ongoing.
And 2010, we were humbled by Pies, yet 12m later, we beat them 3x.

When we reversed the trend against the Swans, it was like the coaches and players were forced to try a few things as we’d been found wanting in previous games. We were on from the start which makes me wonder why we can’t do this in other finals

 

[Vdubs]

When we reversed the trend against the Swans, it was like the coaches and players were forced to try a few things as we’d been found wanting in previous games. We were on from the start which makes me wonder why we can’t do this in other finals

Because the Swans weren't on.
Not who, but when you play a team.
Those CS words ring true.

 

[Frappe]

Because the Swans weren't on.
Not who, but when you play a team.
Those CS words ring true.

Understand Swans were not at their best but if we rely on that as an excuse then we’re in all sorts.

 

[David the Cat]

The last time I thought Geelong were a genuine flag chance was 2013.....since then I have never really believed we had the list to challenge in a GF....I'm not sure if others had different expectations in certain years, ....but other sides looked distinctly superior subsequent to 2013...

My gripe with Scott boils down to a couple of issues....very poor first quarter efforts in finals....over and over again. Something I believe he should have addressed .... yes, it can happen, but it seems endemic and the EF failure last year was a very heavy straw for me.....should it repeat again this year, Scott must surely consider his position.

The other issue is our performances after byes...I'm sure Scott and his assistants have tried multiple alternatives while preparing for "after bye" games. Its depressing to approach these games as a supporter with the thought..."oh...after bye....scratch that game"....

I'm not...at least at this stage,...expecting a flag this year, but I do expect the issues I have flagged to be seen to be dealt with in 2019. I would think these two issues are amongst Scott's KPI's for 2019.

 

[Turbocat]

The last time I thought Geelong were a genuine flag chance was 2013.....since then I have never really believed we had the list to challenge in a GF....I'm not sure if others had different expectations in certain years, ....but other sides looked distinctly superior subsequent to 2013...

My gripe with Scott boils down to a couple of issues....very poor first quarter efforts in finals....over and over again. Something I believe he should have addressed .... yes, it can happen, but it seems endemic and the EF failure last year was a very heavy straw for me.....should it repeat again this year, Scott must surely consider his position.

The other issue is our performances after byes...I'm sure Scott and his assistants have tried multiple alternatives while preparing for "after bye" games. Its depressing to approach these games as a supporter with the thought..."oh...after bye....scratch that game"....

I'm not...at least at this stage,...expecting a flag this year, but I do expect the issues I have flagged to be seen to be dealt with in 2019. I would think these two issues are amongst Scott's KPI's for 2019.

I think thats all fair ... I will say at times in all those subsequent years we have looked like we might be on track for a really good year.. only to feel gutted by years end .. so like your heavy straw , my camels back was the Syd final in 2016 .. since then I have felt that results thru the year were pointless to a degree if we have not added something to our side that was going to take us further in the real games at years end.

This gos back to method of play thru the year.. have we played in a win to win games our to develop a style the would win finals. Traditionally we have been a better side when we played potent football even if we had a goals scored against us?

The losses around byes is mental ..has to be. And like our finals record of late , we have started to feed the monkeys banana's.. and they are getting heavier and heavier on our backs.

I do find it noteworthy that the players we brought in during the Thompson years were basically tall forwards (Ottens became our ruck) while we have really not gone that way ..instead trying to add to our midfield... and I might be wrong but has anyone that has been traded/fa to the club played well in any of our finals? Our midfield thru our great ear was basically a drafted midfield that developed together.

 

[Max Milburn]

I think thats all fair ... I will say at times in all those subsequent years we have looked like we might be on track for a really good year.. only to feel gutted by years end .. so like your heavy straw , my camels back was the Syd final in 2016 .. since then I have felt that results thru the year were pointless to a degree if we have not added something to our side that was going to take us further in the real games at years end.

This gos back to method of play thru the year.. have we played in a win to win games our to develop a style the would win finals. Traditionally we have been a better side when we played potent football even if we had a goals scored against us?

The losses around byes is mental ..has to be. And like our finals record of late , we have started to feed the monkeys banana's.. and they are getting heavier and heavier on our backs.

I do find it noteworthy that the players we brought in during the Thompson years were basically tall forwards (Ottens became our ruck) while we have really not gone that way ..instead trying to add to our midfield... and I might be wrong but has anyone that has been traded/fa to the club played well in any of our finals? Our midfield thru our great ear was basically a drafted midfield that developed together.

Dangerfield was traded, but all others were drafted in the mid. (Gary, yes a bit different, but technically we drafted him).
Kelly and Menegola are more mature, but still drafted.
The question of traded players not playing well in finals is... tricky.
All of our players have performed badly at times, mostly in those infamous first quarters.
Generally, we have done alright after that, broken even with not much hope of overtaking.
Our disappointment as supporters makes us angry, and we hit out looking for a scapegoat.
The monkey has grown so fat, I'm just hoping it dies of a heart attack this year.

 

[Turbocat]

Dangerfield was traded, but all others were drafted in the mid. (Gary, yes a bit different, but technically we drafted him).
Kelly and Menegola are more mature, but still drafted.
The question of traded players not playing well in finals is... tricky.
All of our players have performed badly at times, mostly in those infamous first quarters.
Generally, we have done alright after that, broken even with not much hope of overtaking.
Our disappointment as supporters makes us angry, and we hit out looking for a scapegoat.
The monkey has grown so fat, I'm just hoping it dies of a heart attack this year.

I dont think Im looking for a goat of any type ... Rivers , Danger , Henderson , Smith , Selwood , Ablett ..not to mention the late trade bargains which are not trade but are not young guys who were developed either. Sure not all mids... and there are legit reasons why we went this way ..just saying ..when we can now look back there is an obvious difference in build and results in Sept. We have probably held ground but have seen other sides go past us meaning that we have slipped down each year. Would it suprise me if it happened again this year?
To a degree CS has had dual role keep us competitive while turning over the side... I guess thats for other to decide if he has succeeded at both or one or neither. Listen to Cook last year , it was obvious that there has been a lot of pressure to stay at the high end of the ladder... the club not want to drop down for a fear of revenue dropping... but after last years finals result it seemed there was a surrender of sorts that to the need to look at an adjustment of method.

Maybe no one could have done better .. or perhaps a lot could have done worse. Either way ..the club seems to think he has done well enough.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Because the Swans weren't on.
Not who, but when you play a team.
Those CS words ring true.

They looked pretty damn good the week before.
Lonners didn't play and we changed things up.
Put Danger forward and had 2 good kicks in the midfield in Mots and Lang.
Next week Lonegan back, defence too tall, Kolo on a wing.
Next year both Lang and Motlop gone.
Strange coach.

 

[Hello Kitty]

I would suspect that most senior coaches don't get involved in day-to-day training. That's what they have highly-paid assistants for.

Chris Scott has said that many times, but still makes me wonder.

 

[Vdubs]

They looked pretty damn good the week before.
Lonners didn't play and we changed things up.
Put Danger forward and had 2 good kicks in the midfield in Mots and Lang.
Next week Lonegan back, defence too tall, Kolo on a wing.
Next year both Lang and Motlop gone.
Strange coach.

Stranger players.
Lang hot and cold, on and off, has not set the Blues on fire.
Mots was so maligned here, though I rated him, not at all strange to see him gone.
Lonergan had been a great servant, would have been rough to keep him out v the Crows who we were never going to beat. The atmosphere at AO that night was freakish- NEVER been to a game like that before where walking in we were so scarce in support, the crowd was so pro Crows, we just had this feeling of doom . Not just me, but the optimist I went with said the same.
PDF v Swans was a winner for a half, game was over then.

 

[Vdubs]

Understand Swans were not at their best but if we rely on that as an excuse then we’re in all sorts.

I use that as an excuse when it's relevant. Why not?
If we are missing great players and up against a team on their dung hill, why not?
Swans were cooked, plain and simple, as were we in the 13 prelim last Q.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Stranger players.
Lang hot and cold, on and off, has not set the Blues on fire.
Mots was so maligned here, though I rated him, not at all strange to see him gone.
Lonergan had been a great servant, would have been rough to keep him out v the Crows who we were never going to beat. The atmosphere at AO that night was freakish- NEVER been to a game like that before where walking in we were so scarce in support, the crowd was so pro Crows, we just had this feeling of doom . Not just me, but the optimist I went with said the same.
PDF v Swans was a winner for a
half, game was over then.

It's hard to really defend Lang but I thought he didn't get enough chances in the midfield. The 2 times I saw him play a whole game there he was bloody fantastic.
Sad to see Mots go, but we all knew he was going for about 2 years so lessened the impact. I liked him too.
I've gotta agree about the crowd, even though I didn't go like you but it certainly came across on the TV on the night.
Could tell from the very start some players were gonna struggle with it.
Thought we did a lot right in the Swans game. Not just the Danger thing.
Was good coaching all round.

 

[Vdubs]

It's hard to really defend Lang but I thought he didn't get enough chances in the midfield. The 2 times I saw him play a whole game there he was bloody fantastic.
Sad to see Mots go, but we all knew he was going for about 2 years so lessened the impact. I liked him too.
I've gotta agree about the crowd, even though I didn't go like you but it certainly came across on the TV on the night.
Could tell from the very start some players were gonna struggle with it.
Thought we did a lot right in the Swans game. Not just the Danger thing.
Was good coaching all round.

Agree. I always wanted Lang to get a chance, liked him, sad to see him leave, but I feel like that about most players we invest time in. Thurlow, Murdoch, Varcoe, Menzel. Hamling...
Was not sad to see Caddy and Vardy go, yet they are both premiership players now.
Same with Linc- about time to part. Will he be a flag player?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Agree. I always wanted Lang to get a chance, liked him, sad to see him leave, but I feel like that about most players we invest time in. Thurlow, Murdoch, Varcoe, Menzel. Hamling...
Was not sad to see Caddy and Vardy go, yet they are both premiership players now.
Same with Linc- about time to part. Will he be a flag player?

Doubt it. I'd love to actually see him get fit, cause I don't think he's quite as good as some people think he is. Could see him getting dropped.
I'm a bit different, wanted Varcoe gone, wanted Murdoch gone ages ago but he did improve, no too sad to see Menz go.
Thought Caddy was very much overrated with us, but didn't want him gone. Could kick a clutch goal when the pressure was on. Can't really teach that.
Was really surprised more than anything we delisted Hamling, think Thurlow will do allright if he gets a run of games at the Swans. A bit like Laidler.

 

[Vdubs]

Doubt it. I'd love to actually see him get fit, cause I don't think he's quite as good as some people think he is. Could see him getting dropped.
I'm a bit different, wanted Varcoe gone, wanted Murdoch gone ages ago but he did improve, no too sad to see Menz go.
Thought Caddy was very much overrated with us, but didn't want him gone. Could kick a clutch goal when the pressure was on. Can't really teach that.
Was really surprised more than anything we delisted Hamling, think Thurlow will do allright if he gets a run of games at the Swans. A bit like Laidler.

Just before Varcoe left us, he finally was injury free and was one of our best in several of those finals. 2x premiership player, we have not replaced what he has.

 

[Frappe]

I use that as an excuse when it's relevant. Why not?
If we are missing great players and up against a team on their dung hill, why not?
Swans were cooked, plain and simple, as were we in the 13 prelim last Q.

I understand that teams get up for big games, or suffer “blockbuster fatigue” as Mick Malthouse likes to say, but if we want to use this as an excuse then we’re clutching at straws.

 

[barmy44]

I understand that teams get up for big games, or suffer “blockbuster fatigue” as Mick Malthouse likes to say, but if we want to use this as an excuse then we’re clutching at straws.

depends, really... i dont think VD was saying it as an 'excuse', so much.

its why terrible teams sometimes beat very good teams - the terrible team got lucky to catch the very good on an 'off day', or got lucky to catch them on their own 'on day'.

it makes some sense, i think... its not always who youre up against, but the state you or they are in at the time you come up against them. carlton in '95 were unbeatable. except for the 2 weeks when they got properly tuned up by bottom teams.

catch the best team in any sport in any country on a bad day, and they can be beaten by anyone. catch a bad team on a good day, and they can beat anyone.

but i dont think its meant in the sense that 'what will happen will happen anyway, so lets not work hard or prepare'.

 

[Nickoo]

No argument from me there. It has been a deeply uncomfortable set of finals to experience as a fan.



5.2 32 vs 1.3 9
4.8 32 vs 0.3 3
3.6 24 vs 0.2 2
4.2 26 vs 1.0 6
7.3 45 vs 3.2 20
4.6 30 vs 2.4 16

Those are all QT scores from finals 2016-2018. None of them involved Geelong.

So the learning is that fast starts win finals more often than not. Bombers and Coll have been training continuously for sometime now on fast starts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Landgraft]

So the learning is that fast starts win finals more often than not. Bombers and Coll have been training continuously for sometime now on fast starts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Essendon haven't won a final since 2000. And not all of those early leads were turned into a win.

I think we overstate the inevitability of things on here, just because similar results happened to play out three times and it feels awful when it does happen. If you can't accept your team struggling badly then competitive sport can be a rough thing to be passionate about.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yet 12m later, we eliminated Swans with a thrashing. Bogey side? Not ongoing.
And 2010, we were humbled by Pies, yet 12m later, we beat them 3x.

Prime example of how quickly things can turn around in this game. In round 21, 2007 we were beaten by Port Adelaide on our home deck and 4 weeks later we pulverised them into submission in the GF.

In 2015 we finished 10th and the next year we made the prelim final.