Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[PaulSubetro]

But wasn't this a different guy? The poster that came on described someone that was investigated but he was innocent. It wasn't him cruising the streets or being the CSK. If he wasn't cleared he was still innocent. This guy lived in Dawsville and may have been who BRE was going to visit the night Ciara disappeared. No one thought to question his work partner though, or any other Teslstra worker who may have been in the age range or who even may had convictions?

Compared to what the taxi driver went though, this seems very strange to me and I 'm curious if you have any possible answers.

I'd really like to know why not one other Telstra worker was investigated, with all the Telstra information that was there (apparently)

The "poster" is me. Yes, he's innocent but he was never cleared. He was one of the main POIs. Unlike Lance Williams, Weygers and Steve what ever his name was, he was never outed publicly.

I'd say they only investigated the one Telstra guy because they incorrectly assumed he was the guy offering lifts. They never worked out it wasn't him.

In hindsight they should have keep looking for more Telstra guys to investigate.

 

[FeelingThroaty]

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Gone past her stop or ignored her when she said turn left here and she started to panic .. agree it suggests haste. He may have been heading back to Fountain Way. Or even more or less along the coast to Madora Bay.


View attachment 624100

BRE would have gone extreme on any girl in his company vehicle. He has extreme anger issues hey. What can he do?

 

[BlueE]

If they got any DNA off the Telstra knife, does that mean they DNA tested all potential Telstra ex-workers and current workers to look for a match.

I would have thought that the defence will ask for the DNA tests from the knife as a matter of priority.

No one has said there is any DNA on the knife. It could have been handed in years later. I think what they're saying is its important because its a Telecom knife and the accused worked for Telecom. I think this will get pulled to pieces.

Sorry I didn't mean Jane was found in a Telstra box, I think the knife was found in a Telstra "box" on Woolcoot road/Sorry

 

[ZeroDucksGiven]

I'm interested to know why Macro decided to:
a) REVEAL taxi-with-lights-off sighting near Pipidinny Road after Ciara's abduction (can't recall time frame of reveal though sorry)
versus
b) CONCEAL discovery of T knife found 2 months after Jane's body found at Woolcoot Rd?

Did Macro perceive the T knife as 'stronger' clue/evidence compared to Taxi sighting? Its well known that police like to keep part of the crime secret from public eye, to assist eradication of fake confessions.
(not suggesting guilt of accused here, just wondering why)
Did Macro kept the discovery of T Knife quiet from public eye because the knife was maybe important evidence?

Or were Macro protecting reputation of Telstra and its workers? While years later going 'Beast Mode' on the Taxi Industry and drivers. And supposedly 'cleaning up' taxi industry by forcing taxi drivers to submit DNA samples. Dare I say it - seems like a big PR stunt to me - Which was my thoughts back then too. Oh look Macro are actually doing something constructive and useful....blah blah blah
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Okay so Macro kept quiet about the knife, well where was the MASS investigation into Telstra workers with criminal records that involved attacks on other persons, sexual or otherwise?

 

[BlueE]

Guess you are blind. join the club.

Correct. As you probably realise if the body is buried unless you know the exact location or have co-ordinates it would be almost impossible to find her body.

 

[BFew]

I'd say they only investigated the one Telstra guy because they incorrectly assumed he was the guy offering lifts. They never worked out it wasn't him.
In hindsight they should have keep looking for more Telstra guys to investigate.

That's being really kind and tactful.

Probably as good as it gets.

About the "they" in your post.
Was it "Groupthink" or "follow the leader"?
Someone's already suggested "pin the tail on the donkey".

I'm hearing Supertramp whilst typing this post ..... "The Logical Song"

 

[GreyCrow]

The taxi industry in Perth was in the Little League compared to the League that Telstra played and still plays in.

Telstra is/was one of those too big to fail organisations.

Taxi drivers are party to a few secrets now and again, verbal, physical and geographical.
Telstra really was in the drivers seat on this front. Nothing compares.

It's not who you drive, it's what you drive...... (open for interpretation, just don't lose too much sleep trying to work it out).

And yet this is what I find the oddest

As a task force you analyse a lot of things. One of these are possible ways to leave the area. A vehicle seems obvious. So what type of vehicle?

I know lets look at every taxi driver because everybody sees taxis but dont see them.

Like posty bikes.

Yet they didnt stop to analyse other types of vehicles? From trucks to vans to 4tonners? There was a lot of tunnel vision and hindsight is showing that it caused a lot of people angst

 

[Chameleon75]

I would be a fool to think there was a moral compass and that he didnt sleep with anyone else

BTK’s fantasy was to tie up young women, rape and murder them. Yet he never raped any of his victims, when the police asked why he said he didn’t want to cheat on his wife.

The moral compass on these guys are all over the place. It’ll give you a headache trying to figure them out.

 

[BFew]

There was a lot of tunnel vision and hindsight is showing that it caused a lot of people angst

And still is causing a lot of people angst.

 

[ZeroDucksGiven]

remind me please:
the 1988 offence where fingerprints collected off door or sliding door???
is this same of different offence/housen to kimono offence?

 

[Chameleon75]

It just doesn't add up does it?

Especially when you throw in the Telstra knife evidence that has been kept secret for all those years for some reason.

And only when they have their man in the pre-dock, do they bring out the Telstra knife.

Maybe there's a reasonable explanation for this. Any ideas?

The the prosecution hasn’t claimed the knife as the murder weapon, they haven’t got finger prints or DNA tying it to victims or the accused. They probably collected a number of items of interest and the significance doesn’t become apparent until you they had a firm suspect. At the time all it was , was a telecom issued tool found within a telecom asset, that may or may not have been important.

 

[Kurve]

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remind me please:
the 1988 offence where fingerprints collected off door or sliding door???
is this same of different offence/housen to kimono offence?

Different offence I think. He broke into someone else's house and was chased off, caught rifling through her drawers. Then he went back and tried again. The sequence is in the trial media thread.

 

[AAACockburn]

Did Jane work across the rd from Karakatta cemetery.I am fairly certain she did.
Just to add to the MM video and the fact she recognised him. There was a lunch bar close too.

 

[ZeroDucksGiven]

.
Different offence I think. He broke into someone else's house and was chased off, caught rifling through her drawers. Then he went back and tried again. The sequence is in the trial media thread.

1988 Break-in Offence -> fingerprints, but no name, caught rifling through drawers, location Huntingdale
Since NO sexual assault element, maybe viewed/processed as 'break and enter' thwarted robbery attempt.
*Logged under Break'n'Enters

1988 Kimono Offence -> kimono evidence, but no fingerprints(?), no name, location Huntingdale
(DNA on kimono only came years later)
Logged under Sexual Assault

1990 HH attack -> criminal record, fingerprints, name, location HH/near KK
No sexual assault element, Could have been viewed/processed as 'his word against hers' scenario.
*Logged under Common(?) Assault

1995 KK assault -> evidence left 'inside' victim, no name, no fingerprints, location KK/near HH
(DNA discovery came years later)
Logged as Sexual Assault

Question:
How did police categorise the finger print specimens back in 80's and 90's during pre-digital era???
A) categorised according to type of offence?
B) categorised according to patterns or swirl elements found on finger print specimen?
C) categorised by name of offender?

Then how did police categorise UNKNOWN finger print specimens?

Because if offences listed above were categorised in different sections according to the nature of the crime, then would police bother doing cross-sectional finger print analysis in pre-digital era?
Or would police just search finger prints collected in category that encompasses the crime?

Specifically would police bother searching for finger print match for 1988 B&E offence when nothing was really stolen? Would police bother revisiting this case years later to try match with finger prints from crimes committed years later?

Do we expect police to take HH finger prints of known offender of lesser crime and 'flash them around' analysis room pre-digital era while asking - "hey did this guy commit any other crimes we don't know about?" While simultaneously making investigative leap from supposed B&E to Sexual Assault with Kimono, both in 1988 in Huntingdale?

Note: Correct me if i'm wrong about when they digitised finger prints specimens.

 

[panda1981]

3 times?

I don’t think he knew Sarah and Ciara

 

[BonzaRam]

And yet this is what I find the oddest

As a task force you analyse a lot of things. One of these are possible ways to leave the area. A vehicle seems obvious. So what type of vehicle?

I know lets look at every taxi driver because everybody sees taxis but dont see them.

Like posty bikes.

Yet they didnt stop to analyse other types of vehicles? From trucks to vans to 4tonners? There was a lot of tunnel vision and hindsight is showing that it caused a lot of people angst

The guy who lived at the back of one of Weyger's properties was an ex taxi driver and i think pointing the finger at taxi drivers was spawn from that in connection with the girls were heading to get a taxi...

"While years later going 'Beast Mode' on the Taxi Industry and drivers. And supposedly 'cleaning up' taxi industry by forcing taxi drivers to submit DNA samples."

They took DNA swabs and Fingerprints of all those that voluntarily submitted samples. I was one of them taxi drivers....... but many didn't.

 

[BFew]

Just saw this advertised on
thewest.com.au

 

[one eyed spy]

Did Jane work across the rd from Karakatta cemetery.I am fairly certain she did.
Just to add to the MM video and the fact she recognised him. There was a lunch bar close too.

"she recognised him" isnt a fact at all. I dont think she did.

 

[Beatnicked]

Yes you did:

Actualy I did NOT write the words... on top of. Post 3141

Do we know for sure clothing items found positioned on victim remains actually were those victim's clothing items? If other clothing items were on remains what size were these items?

 

[PaulSubetro]

Actualy I did NOT write the words... on top of. Post 3141

Do we know for sure clothing items found positioned on victim remains actually were those victim's clothing items? If other clothing items were on remains what size were these items?

As discussed, CG was wearing her own clothes, JR was naked.

 

[Beatnicked]

As discussed, CG was wearing her own clothes, JR was naked.

My post was to clarify that I did not state certain words that you insist I did. Simple. End of discussion.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I'm interested to know why Macro decided to:
a) REVEAL taxi-with-lights-off sighting near Pipidinny Road after Ciara's abduction (can't recall time frame of reveal though sorry)
versus
b) CONCEAL discovery of T knife found 2 months after Jane's body found at Woolcoot Rd?

Did Macro perceive the T knife as 'stronger' clue/evidence compared to Taxi sighting? Its well known that police like to keep part of the crime secret from public eye, to assist eradication of fake confessions.
(not suggesting guilt of accused here, just wondering why)
Did Macro kept the discovery of T Knife quiet from public eye because the knife was maybe important evidence?

Or were Macro protecting reputation of Telstra and its workers? While years later going 'Beast Mode' on the Taxi Industry and drivers. And supposedly 'cleaning up' taxi industry by forcing taxi drivers to submit DNA samples. Dare I say it - seems like a big PR stunt to me - Which was my thoughts back then too. Oh look Macro are actually doing something constructive and useful....blah blah blah
.
.
.
.

Okay so Macro kept quiet about the knife, well where was the MASS investigation into Telstra workers with criminal records that involved attacks on other persons, sexual or otherwise?

1st Tranche TLS privatisation was 1997, a good % of Australians suddenly become much more invested in the fortunes of the company...just sayin'

 

[Beatnicked]

ABC article re T knife discovery verifies the knife was found on same day Jane's remains were discovered by a ''witness''. I wouldn't consider a witness to be a police or forensics officer. Was it the woman who discovered Jane or her husband who was also there, who discovered the T knife?

The court heard that Ms Rimmer's body was found 55 days after she disappeared at Wellard, south of Perth, where on the same day a witness found a knife with a Telstra logo.

IMAGEState prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo has begun outlining the case against Mr Edwards.(ABC News: Hugh Sando)
Ms Barbagallo said the knife was a "standard issue" Telstra or Telecom knife that had been issued to employees, including Mr Edwards.

 

[Beatnicked]

I'm interested to know why Macro decided to:
a) REVEAL taxi-with-lights-off sighting near Pipidinny Road after Ciara's abduction (can't recall time frame of reveal though sorry)
versus
b) CONCEAL discovery of T knife found 2 months after Jane's body found at Woolcoot Rd?

Did Macro perceive the T knife as 'stronger' clue/evidence compared to Taxi sighting? Its well known that police like to keep part of the crime secret from public eye, to assist eradication of fake confessions.
(not suggesting guilt of accused here, just wondering why)
Did Macro kept the discovery of T Knife quiet from public eye because the knife was maybe important evidence?

Or were Macro protecting reputation of Telstra and its workers? While years later going 'Beast Mode' on the Taxi Industry and drivers. And supposedly 'cleaning up' taxi industry by forcing taxi drivers to submit DNA samples. Dare I say it - seems like a big PR stunt to me - Which was my thoughts back then too. Oh look Macro are actually doing something constructive and useful....blah blah blah
.
.
.
.

Okay so Macro kept quiet about the knife, well where was the MASS investigation into Telstra workers with criminal records that involved attacks on other persons, sexual or otherwise?

This is the article. The taxi in Pipidinny Rd was reported by someone and it doesn't appear the information was released by the police.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...ons-death-ng-b80af943b3f4b839a9956cdffd1aa3ab

Re the police not releasing information about the T knife discovery. Police are known to keep certain matters out of the public domain so that if anyone during an interview mentions that certain matter, and in this case a T knife, they know this person knows more than they should know.

Police certainly would not want the public to know about the T knife as it is not normal to release anything that will give an indication of a victim injury until their investigations are more complete. Police in this case released very little information. A knife found nearby a victim would give a pretty clear, although not certain indication, of the method used by a perpetrator. IMO

 

[Beatnicked]

The West Australian weekend edition has a very interesting front page today! Huge banner headline indicating ........top cop in footy team with the accused.

hmmmm didn't someone write about that on here very recently? Previous to that I had suggested the accused might have connected with police in a social sense keeping his ear to the ground. I do certainly hope there were no loose lips sinking ships!