Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Beatnicked]

Page 37
The accused was arrested by police and charged with one count of
common assault. He later pleaded guilty to that charge on 11 May
1990. A conviction was recorded and a pre-sentence report was
obtained. On 1 June 1990, the accused was sentenced in the Perth
Court of Petty Sessions to 2 years' probation. He was required to
undertake a sex offender's treatment programme from 30 August 1990
to 9 May 1991

Here is the definition of 'common assault'

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Assault Charges in Western Australia


Assault charges in Western Australia are taken very seriously, no matter how minor the incident may be. Depending on the particular type of offence, different penalties will apply and the criminal trial process will differ. Assault charges are dealt with under Part 5 of the Criminal Code 1913 (WA). The nature and severity of the assault will determine the charge that is laid against an offender.

Definition of Assault
In Western Australia.....

An assault may occur by, for example, striking, touching, moving, or applying force of any kind to another person, either directly or indirectly, without the person’s consent, or with their consent if it is obtained by fraud. It is not necessary for physical injury to have been caused to amount to an assault, as an assault charge may arise from an attempt or a threat where the offender has, or appears to have, the ability to carry out the assault. In addition, assault may arise if an offender uses any light, heat, electricity, odour, gas or any substance that causes injury or personal discomfort to another person.

An assault-based offence is considered aggravated where the person who caused the assault is in a domestic relationship with the victim, a child was present, the conduct breaches the terms of a restraining order, the victim is 60 years or older, or the offence is racially motivated.

Common Assault
Common assault charges in Western Australia arise in circumstances where a person has sustained minor injuries or where a person has been threatened. The most common form of this offence arises when a person has been hit, pushed or shoved. Common assault offences are dealt with by the Magistrates’ Court. The maximum penalty for this offence is generally 18 months imprisonment and a fine of $18,000. However, where the offence occurs in circumstances of aggravation, the maximum penalty rises to 3 years imprisonment and a fine of $36,000.
https://www.gotocourt.com.au/criminal-law/wa/assault/

The 2 years probation per page 37 of transcript does not fit the 'common assault' sentencing guidelines.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Whose to say BRE's family had a little meeting & told neighbours that they were moving out of the area so it would never happen to them again & they told them BRE needed help but he could only get that help if he was never identified & charged?
And what do the loving & worried parents do?
They took him to Bali where he would have seen plenty of ladyboys & he felt right at home.
It was 1988, not 2010. Crossdressing, being gay or transgender was not as accepted in Australia then as it is now. I think pleas of him not lasting in prison, them promising to move suburbs could have helped keep them quiet. Good old Gosnells had a high crime rate even back then. BRE would have been able to get away with the same things. I wonder if they looked into any peeping toms in Gosnells from 88 & upwards

Hi Willow Weeps, I think this might be timely to look at in view of your comments? I posted this a long, long time ago on another site. I keep thinking that this could be something BRE (IF found guilty) might avail himself of, all paid for by WA taxpayers, of course!

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...a21ab9424?sv=69e959af0483bfe72029975427920727

PS Love your cat and comment!

 

[Beatnicked]

Whereas indecent assault fits the penalty


INDECENT ASSAULT
Pursuant to section 323 of the Criminal Code 1913 (WA), it is a crime if a person “indecently assaults” another person. As with assaults in general, the issue of “consent” is relevant and it must be proven that the person allegedly assaulted did not “consent”.

In determining if an assault was “indecent” the court will examine the assault against what is considered to be offensive to common propriety in the mind of “ordinary decent-people”. As such it is not possible to give an exhaustive list of what may constitute an “indecent assault” and what is considered “indecent” may change over time. An example of what would currently be accepted as an “indecent assault” would be the touching of a woman’s breasts.

It is important to note that there is no defence relating to whether the person is lawfully married to the other person as there is with some offences. This means that a husband can commit this crime against his wife.

“Indecent assault” can either be heard in the District Court or summarily in the Magistrates Court. If the matter is heard in the Magistrates Court the maximum penalty is a fine of $24,000.00 and/ or imprisonment for 2 years. Otherwise the maximum penalty is imprisonment for 5 years.


https://perth.armstronglegal.com.au...MIzNqA9f-S4QIVQ4WPCh2B1QMcEAAYASACEgIBzfD_BwE

indecent
/ɪnˈdiːs(ə)nt/Submit
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
not conforming with generally accepted standards of behaviour, especially in relation to sexual matters.

 

[Willow weeps]

he would definitely need a police clearance to work with kids in Little Athletics. When did he start in 96 after marrying or when family members were old enough to join?

 

[Pavlova7]

Maybe there's still some things they're keeping from us in regard to BREs history through the courts. It's almost like someone slipped up and we weren't supposed to know he had to participate in a sex offenders program.


What do you think might explain a two year probationary period for a first offence of common assault and the sex offender tag?

It does state in the report that BRE spoke before and after with the woman and even apologised. Could it be possible he said other things like his intent? IE I'm sorry I'd don't know what I was thinking, I'm sexually frustrated etc etc. Admitting his motive was sexually based but he couldn't go through with it? Could explain why he was only charged with common assault but the fact he had those thoughts and that was his intent (to sexually assualt/abuse her)?. This isn't me saying I agree with the lesser charge of common assault but for a first offence? And he admitted his guilt?... Just thoughts.

 

[Beatnicked]

When did police checks come into play , I cant remember ... even when they did I think it mostly applied to new employees , if you had the job already you didn't need it ..... there will people here of the right vintage , did anyone have to apply for a police clearance while employed

Little Athletics required police checks it was in their minutes with bre name requiring one.

 

[Beatnicked]

It does state in the report that BRE spoke before and after with the woman and even apologised. Could it be possible he said other things like his intent? IE I'm sorry I'd don't know what I was thinking, I'm sexually frustrated etc etc. Admitting his motive was sexually based but he couldn't go through with it? Could explain why he was only charged with common assault but the fact he had those thoughts and that was his intent (to sexually assualt/abuse her)?. This isn't me saying I agree with the lesser charge of common assault but for a first offence? And he admitted his guilt?... Just thoughts.

Page 36

The Hollywood Hospital offence evidence
Summary of evidence77
87 At around 2.30 pm on 7 May 1990, the accused, then aged 21, was
at Hollywood Hospital in Nedlands attending to a fault on the PABX
system in his capacity as a Telecom technician. He entered an office in
which the complainant, a 40-year-old female senior social worker, was

76 Wark [67] - [68].
77 State Submissions [104] - [115].

Page 37


Page 37
sitting. The accused asked to use the toilet. A toilet was located
through a door at the back of the office. The complainant was engaged
in her work and only 'minimally responded' to the accused. He went to
the toilet and returned a short time later. He then approached the
complainant from behind, put a piece of material over her nose and
mouth using his left hand and put his right arm over her right shoulder
and across her chest. He then began dragging the complainant
backward towards the toilet. She was seated on a chair with wheels and
her chair was dragged back with her. The accused pulled her off the
chair keeping a tight grip on her and the chair fell over.
88 The complainant struggled against the accused, but was unable to
scream because of the presence of the accused's hand and the material
covering her mouth. She could not move her arms because of the grip
that he had on her. After a struggle, in which the complainant kicked
the accused, he loosened his grip and she broke free. She fled into a
neighbouring ward and sought help. The accused did not say anything
to the complainant during the attack, although he did say sorry to her
after the attack was completed.
89 A hospital security guard attended and detained the accused until
police arrived. The accused admitted to the security guard that he had
tried to drag the complainant to the toilet cubicle. He was found by
police to have cable ties in his pocket, though such ties could be used in
the course of his work.
90 The accused was arrested by police and charged with one count of
common assault. He later pleaded guilty to that charge on 11 May 1990. A conviction was recorded and a pre-sentence report was
obtained. On 1 June 1990, the accused was sentenced in the Perth Court of Petty Sessions to 2 years' probation. He was required to undertake a sex offender's treatment programme from 30 August 1990 to 9 May 1991.

 

[tapdancingbear]

Little Athletics required police checks it was in their minutes with bre name requiring one.

Yes that may be correct ... but after 2000 he was clear to get one if he had no other charges since 1990 ... when did he start at Little Athletics , if after 200 he was ok

 

[Melsy]

Maybe there's still some things they're keeping from us in regard to BREs history through the courts. It's almost like someone slipped up and we weren't supposed to know he had to participate in a sex offenders program.
What do you think might explain a two year probationary period for a first offence of common assault and the sex offender tag?

Someone went to Bali and then was sent to Madora Bay to live? June?

Cutler went missing June 20

What year did they get married?

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

The working with children card Act went through parliament in 2004 and was finally tweaked and put in place in 2006.

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

In order to get on any Sex Offenders course the person has to first admit he/her is a sex offender

 

[Willow weeps]

The working with children card Act went through parliament in 2004 and was finally tweaked and put in place in 2006.

And yet they put a 12y/o girl in foster care of a family who ran a daycare centre when they were investigating the husband for sexually assaulting two kids in that daycare centre in QLD. Where do you think the son learnt his grooming skills from. I think Rick Thorburn was worried he might have gotten her pregnant too.You know Trent Thorburn was 18 when he molested a 12y/o Tialeigh? Did you know Trent Thorburn wasn't put on a sex offenders list & regularly attends dance competitions filled with 12y/o girls, some older, some younger? That boy right there has been given the power to carry on Daddy's legacy. As far as the law is concerned, Trent Thorburn did nothing wrong by rapinga minor

 

[tapdancingbear]

I have settled on a result that i can accept , it may be wrong but it makes sense to me

I think the 1990 charge was for sexual assault or indecent assault therefore the 2 years probation and entry into the sex offendors program

I think it was recorded wrong by the clerk of courts as a common assault charge , nothing sinister , just a mistake

In the current trial nobody coud pick up on it if they realised , the prosecution Cannot say its recorded wrong , the defence Would not say its recorded wrong , I could be completly wrong , but the maths makes sense this way
If someone with more patience than i have wants to track down the court records for 1st june 1990 for the court of petty sessions , either in records or newspaper it will tell you exactly what he was charged with

Sorry , you would need the records for pretrial showing what he was in court for , not what was recorded after the trial ie . common assault

 

[BFew]

I think the 1990 charge was for sexual assault or indecent assault therefore the 2 years probation and entry into the sex offendors program

I think it was recorded wrong by the clerk of courts as a common assault charge , nothing sinister , just a mistake

In the current trial nobody coud pick up on it if they realised , the prosecution Cannot say its recorded wrong , the defence Would not say its recorded wrong , I could be completly wrong , but the maths makes sense this way
If someone with more patience than i have wants to track down the court records for 1st june 1990 for the court of petty sessions , either in records or newspaper it will tell you exactly what he was charged with

Sorry , you would need the records for pretrial showing what he was in court for , not what was recorded after the trial ie . common assault

Further investigations of this issue are warranted to ensure that the reason why the accused avoided becoming a CSK POI about 20 years earlier, was not a case of either

(a) a deliberately incorrectly recorded conviction of indecent assault as common assault; or

(b) someone going/getting into the systems or databases, or datasets (authorised, unauthorised or via hacking) that were used in the CSK investigations by WAPOL, and deliberately changing the accused’s data record from indecent assault to common assault.

Because if (a) or (b), or just an error, the public needs to know that a reconciliation will be or has/is being done of all conviction records in the systems to identify any others that have changed, correct them, relook at a crime or too with the corrected data, investigate how/why this happened, who did what and when, and whether enough measures are currently being taken to prevent/detect it happening again.

In conclusion, the accused’s luck could primarily boil down to an accidental data entry error.

 

[Beatnicked]

In order to get on any Sex Offenders course the person has to first admit he/her is a sex offender

The link that Shelly shared shows there is such a programme for 'deniers' as well.

 

[Beatnicked]

Could it be he was initially charged with indecent assault re Hollywood then he was told if you plead guilty we will downgrade to common assault as long as you agree to participate in the sex offenders programme?

From the description of Hollywood incident the way he physically controlled the victim with his right arm over her breast area could be construed as 'indecent' according to legal opinion/definition posted upthread.

I think this scenario is likely because if he was found guilty of a sexual assault in 1990 I doubt he would have kept his Telecom/Telstra job and would have had a serious red X against him on the criminal record system for 20 years. Instead he received 2 years probation with no further known offending within this time, no criminal record.

I reckon he played the system to his advantage.

If he was convicted of a sexual assault the alleged prowler series in Huntingdale may have been highlighted due to his previous connection to that area on drivers license records and alleged huntingdale scene finger and foot prints matched to him. He would have known that.

In 1990 he was living at Noranda (Feb directions) with girlfriend who later admitted infidelity with her ex just prior to Hollywood.

 

[Beatnicked]

By using the system according to the above scenario would his DNA have been collected? I doubt it. I do wonder who his legal rep was in 1990 - would be very very interesting.

 

[BFew]

In conclusion, the accused’s luck could primarily boil down to an accidental data entry error.

 

[Melsy]

In conclusion, the accused’s luck could primarily boil down to an accidental data entry error.

The entire case hinges around the fact that someone didn't enter the Huntingdale fingerprints into the national fingerprint database.

The officers investigating the Huntingdale case must be hiding under desks. Someone failed to enter prints into the national database where there was a prior assault charge.

 

[Melsy]

You can't charge someone for indecent assault if it didn't happen. You don't do any sexual programme if it is Common Assault.

Proposed evidence

The prowler leaves behind finger and palm prints and foot impressions at a residence. The state alleges the fingerprints match Mr Edwards'

May 1990
Hollywood Hospital assault: Mr Edwards confesses to attempting to drag a young social worker into a toilet block at Hollywood Hospital, where he was contracted for work at the time.

Mr Edwards gagged the woman with a piece of cloth, but she managed to fight him off.

Police later found cable ties in his pockets. The incident occurred after Mr Edwards had learned his then-girlfriend had cheated on him.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/how-he-did-it-state-outlines-case-against-accused-claremont-serial-killer-20190219-p50yvo.html

 

[Melsy]

Huntingdale prowler, Southside rapist just vanishes into thin air around mid 1988?

Masters raped and murdered 30-year-old Victoria Clarke in her home on Leonard St, Victoria Park, in April 1987.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjo9v3VyZThAhWWXCsKHX5oAJEQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/double-killer-david-troy-masters-to-spend-another-three-years-in-jail-ng-caabadc94c068367a745b2fea510be56&usg=AOvVaw1W9v-A30JDjtrt3McWU_zx

David Troy Masters, 46, was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1991

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ng-ya-177005&usg=AOvVaw1P-N6LJsBfIXkaPbcSEy-Q

 

[Melsy]

Girlfriend 1990. Still commits criminal acts while in relationships.

 

[one eyed spy]

Juvenlie offenc

First of all if you plead guilty it does not have to get to the magistrates court .. BRE was sentenced in the court of petty sessions so that answers itself ... second … the probation can only be the equivalent of the maximum sentence at most , not higher … third Juvenile offences should not be considered in an adult court , you start with a clean slate when your 18 …

I know what probation is , I know what a suspended sentence is … I don't have to read or quote from books to know this

BRE got 2 years probation in the court of petty sessions for supposedly a first offence , its BS

I used the term Magistrates court as it exists now, encompassing Petty Sessions which is irrelevant to the sentence he received or the fact it was then & is still considered a simple offence.

Probation as it was in 1990 could be up to 5 years without any consideration to alternative punishment or max terms . You applying principles that didnt exist to a 1990 conviction when the law and the attitude toward a prison term & first offenders, if he was one, was very different.

You also said Probation is the equivalent of the time you would get if jailed ... if you mess up during the probation time you automatically get that sentence in lock up , that is easy to understand that isnt correct in regards to probation, it reflects the provisions of a suspended sentence.

You can insist that its BS, but your mistaken in your application of the laws of the time.

 

[BonzaRam]

Hmmm, seems to be a lot of focus on police clearances at the moment.

Something that should be noted is a police clearance is ONLY a one time check on any convictions the person requesting it has against them. The reason i say this is because you can ( in theory) go out the very next day after and commit another offense and it would not be on a police clearance that you already have... To pick up on any further convictions a new police clearance would be required.

Someone asked about a National Fingerprint Database, a search on "CrimTrak" will give info on what was available at the time. CrimTrak was established in 2000, its sole purpose is toi connect all the states Law Enforcement Database so they are accessible to everyone immediately. Prior to this the left often never knerw what the right hand was doing... One must remember the reason these cold cases are now being solved is from advancement in technology. In regards to information sharing it is especially so in Computer Technology.

The common assault, which we mostly seem to agree should have been a sexual assault charge, has another factor that i have not seen mentioned. THE VICTIM, she also had a say in what them charges would be also. If she wasn't willing to press charges for sexual assault (for whatever reasons - afterall she did foil the attack) then they would have to go with a lesser charge.

 

[Melsy]

Hmmm, seems to be a lot of focus on police clearances at the moment.

Something that should be noted is a police clearance is ONLY a one time check on any convictions the person requesting it has against them. The reason i say this is because you can ( in theory) go out the very next day after and commit another offense and it would not be on a police clearance that you already have... To pick up on any further convictions a new police clearance would be required.

Someone asked about a National Fingerprint Database, a search on "CrimTrak" will give info on what was available at the time. CrimTrak was established in 2000, its sole purpose is toi connect all the states Law Enforcement Database so they are accessible to everyone immediately. Prior to this the left often never knerw what the right hand was doing... One must remember the reason these cold cases are now being solved is from advancement in technology. In regards to information sharing it is especially so in Computer Technology.

The common assault, which we mostly seem to agree should have been a sexual assault charge, has another factor that i have not seen mentioned. THE VICTIM, she also had a say in what them charges would be also. If she wasn't willing to press charges for sexual assault (for whatever reasons - afterall she did foil the attack) then they would have to go with a lesser charge.

Claims are the 1990 incident had fingerprints on a national database.

Was there a state fingerprint database in 1988? No doubt they have to merge all the legacy flat file stuff.

Do be mindful that there was no sexual charges, only common assault charge with 2 years probation. She kicked her way free prior to any sexual misconduct.

A working with children card would have been a no brainer because there was no charges of sexual assault - ever!