Mega Thread #14 David Mackay - 14 possessions again

[Elite Crow]

Because he is getting old. He turns 31 this year. A lot of tread on those tyres and 202 games should catch up with that slight frame now.



They were injured. Your argument might hold weight if an AFL team can get through an entire season without a single injury. Then it has merit.

Until then its ridiculous reasoning.

He’s 30! That’s not getting old for a running midfielder, well maybe a poor one.

Injuries are the point. “He might sneak in with some injuries”. That was you justifying his selection this year, guess what we had injuries in 18 and 17 and yet you claim he was a best 22 player. It’s just a coincidence with healthy competitors for his position you’ve said he needs injuries to sneak in.

 

[AFC979810]

My point? He was poor for a number of games before being dropped. You don’t drop a senior player after one poor game.

Was that the first year he’d been dropped in a year? The second time? Third or fourth?

Surely a quality player worthy of 200 games doesn’t have form drops leading him to be dropped once a year.

Whatever fits your narrative, but there is no such thing as a 200 game player who isn't a quality player.

 

[Elite Crow]

Whatever fits your narrative, but there is no such thing as a 200 game player who isn't a quality player.

Classic, I see you’ve moved on from him being dropped yearly.

And yes there is, his name is David Mackay. The same Mackay that polls so poorly in the B&F voting, who has sneaked games in due to injury.

 

[jackster83]

Classic, I see you’ve moved on from him being dropped yearly.

And yes there is, his name is David Mackay. The same Mackay that polls so poorly in the B&F voting, who has sneaked games in due to injury.

Surprised we don't give B&F votes for training performances.

 

[AFC979810]

Classic, I see you’ve moved on from him being dropped yearly.

Yawn. I have never said that he hasn't been dropped for the odd game. What I have said yearly and argued about is whether David Mackay is a best 22 player. History has shown me to be correct every single year.

You claim he is not best 22 every year. Then when proven wrong by him playing the majority of the games and all the finals - provide a long laundry list of excuses about why he shouldn't be he best 22. 6 different head coaches all being wrong, that he is just lucky every single year because other players get injured, etc....

And yes there is, his name is David Mackay. The same Mackay that polls so poorly in the B&F voting, who has sneaked games in due to injury.

If only games were won off of the back of the back of Best and Fairest votes - then it might be important.

The beauty of the B&F as an argument - is that its the same coaches who select David Mackay every single week are the same ones that have input into selection.

 

[SugarShane]

Toughness at the contest. Thats why he was dropped. Improved that (have a look at his tackle count) and won back his spot.

Isn't 2017 when he was dropped and then recalled after 1 week of being travelling emergency? His toughness at the tackling bags during the week off was too good to ignore.

 

[jenny61_99]

We had our chance to win the premiership in 05/06, 2012 and 2017 but weren't good enough. The selection is based on experience since we are facing a very experience Hawks line-up...….mind you if Seedsman/Brown weren't injured, he would be in the SANFL.

Exactly. People seem to forget that none of Fog, Greenwood, Gallucci or CEY play that position. His is indeed a lucky bastard. Somebody check his locker and make sure he doesn't have any little Brown/Seeds voodoo dolls hanging around!

 

[marty36]

Because you don’t understand our position at all, we’ve said Mackay is the luckiest most average 200 game player ever because he’s benefited from injuries to players who he would compete with. He’s also benefited from a lack of depth in his position.

We agree he’s sneaked in due to injuries. You agree he’s sneaked in due to injuries and yet somehow you claim to be right and we are wrong.

You are even posting in a thread which predicted it as soon as we got injuries.

Is our list that poor that we need to turn to Mackay all the time

 

[marty36]

Exactly. People seem to forget that none of Fog, Greenwood, Gallucci or CEY play that position. His is indeed a lucky bastard. Somebody check his locker and make sure he doesn't have any little Brown/Seeds voodoo dolls hanging around!

The coach clearly believes he is the next best option, that cant be argued

 

[SugarShane]

We had our chance to win the premiership in 05/06, 2012 and 2017 but weren't good enough. The selection is based on experience since we are facing a very experience Hawks line-up...….mind you if Seedsman/Brown weren't injured, he would be in the SANFL.

I don't believe that. The beauty of Mackay being equally as effective in all positions is we can put him anywhere on the field to keep him playing. Seed and Brown come in? Kelly goes out for Brown, Knight or Douglas get named up forward/half forward and one of Murphy or Jones makes way. Mackay gets shuffled around but retains his spot.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I was so optimistic about this year and yet here we are again. We will never succeed until the mindset of this club changes. Mackay has been cooked for close to five years.

This reminds me of Thommo. Played him for too long too (but nowhere near as too long as Mackay).

Never change Adelaide. Never change.

 

[AFC979810]

Isn't 2017 when he was dropped and then recalled after 1 week of being travelling emergency? His toughness at the tackling bags during the week off was too good to ignore.

He obviously did what was required and kept his spot for the rest of the year for the team that made it to the grand final.

 

[AFC979810]

I was so optimistic about this year and yet here we are again. We will never succeed until the mindset of this club changes. Mackay has been cooked for close to five years.

This reminds me of Thommo. Played him for too long too (but nowhere near as too long as Mackay).

Never change Adelaide. Never change.

Question - looking back at 2017 - were you happy with the club?

 

[Scorpus]

Defending Mackay's selection is like defending anti-vaxxers or climate change deniers.

"There's no scientific consensus"

 

[Elite Crow]

Yawn. I have never said that he hasn't been dropped for the odd game. What I have said yearly and argued about is whether David Mackay is a best 22 player. History has shown me to be correct every single year.

You claim he is not best 22 every year. Then when proven wrong by him playing the majority of the games and all the finals - provide a long laundry list of excuses about why he shouldn't be he best 22. 6 different head coaches all being wrong, that he is just lucky every single year because other players get injured, etc....



If only games were won off of the back of the back of Best and Fairest votes - then it might be important.

The beauty of the B&F as an argument - is that its the same coaches who select David Mackay every single week are the same ones that have input into selection.

He is best 22 when he sneaks in due to injury

 

[Elite Crow]

Is our list that poor that we need to turn to Mackay all the time

Mackay was drafted in 2006 wasn’t he? I agree in that time we have failed to draft and trade in enough running players.

Since Hamish took over in 2012 despite losing 5 quality picks he’s managed to draft Atkins with a late pick, bring in Seeds and draft Milera. Cameron could have played wing but he left.

All who are ahead of Mackay when fit.

You’ve got to ask what our recruiter was doing between 2006 and 2012 to fill this particular lack of depth, only Smith fills the need.

 

[AFC979810]

Defending Mackay's selection is like defending anti-vaxxers or climate change deniers.

"There's no scientific consensus"

I would say its exactly the opposite.

You have someone like Don Pyke who is a paid authority on our best 22. He has forgotten more about AFL football and how it truly works than most people on here will ever know. He is the authority, who, like 5 other authorities all pick David Mackay.

Then you have all the internet hero's who masquerade as "experts". They have these crazy unsupported crackpot theories and assume they know better.

 

[AFC979810]

He is best 22 when he sneaks in due to injury

As close as we will get.

Admitting it, but with a bit of internal self loathing I think.

 

[jackster83]

Isn't 2017 when he was dropped and then recalled after 1 week of being travelling emergency? His toughness at the tackling bags during the week off was too good to ignore.

That was the game Gallucci debuted in. Dropped the following week for Mackay.

 

[Elite Crow]

As close as we will get.

Admitting it, but with a bit of internal self loathing I think.

I’m just reaffirming your position, which supports what we’ve been saying all along, is that he gets games due to injury.

Next you’ll admit he’s an average player and one lucky bastard.

As for your last line, that was pretty lame.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Is our list that poor that we need to turn to Mackay all the time

Who would you play in that role? Brown, Seed and Galluci would probably be the best suited and none of them are fit. If you were going to give the spot to a first timer who would it be? McPherson would be my preference and he's injured. I'd like to see more of McHenry but I'm not sure he's suited to the role and they were trialling him in the forward line anyway so that seems unlikely. Hamill & Sholl are still too green.

That was the game Gallucci debuted in. Dropped the following week for Mackay.

Tbf Galluci looked way off the pace in his first game.

 

[Scorpus]

I would say its exactly the opposite.

You have someone like Don Pyke who is a paid authority on our best 22. He has forgotten more about AFL football and how it truly works than most people on here will ever know. He is the authority, who, like 5 other authorities all pick David Mackay.

Then you have all the internet hero's who masquerade as "experts". They have these crazy unsupported crackpot theories and assume they know better.

Nope.

There is a general consensus among all people - not just supporters on the internet, but fans at our games, opposition fans, analysts - that Mackay is not good. There are countless available facts and statistics showing his lack of achievements, poor statistical rankings for his position, low output, lack of good games, etc.

The coaches who select him are that 3% of scientists that disagree on climate change. They use their position of power combined with bad facts to enact poor policies, much like politicians in some countries

 

[Pea Nut]

I can kind of see him as a like for like with Seed out.

Plays a similar role and a mature body/mind.

Will be really unhappy if he keeps his role with Seed back and he has an average game.

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Seedsman has a lethal right boot. Mackay kicks up and under loopy kicks to the advantage of defenders or to absolutely nobody. It's one thing that is never addressed, it's like everyone sees Mackay with the ball running his 15-30 metres then completely ignores what happens after that. It's a worse trait than his lack of defensive ability.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Question - looking back at 2017 - were you happy with the club?

Not with the continued use of Mackay at the expense of other players:

How the hell is Mackay an emergency and Knight is not?

 

[Scorpus]

If people were really happy with our 2017 grand final team and see that as the best version of our team, why isn't anyone complaining about Otten not being selected?