R1: Most impressive and most dissapointing

[Back One Out]

Me too, but then what would a Carlton supporter know about football.

Poor comment. Since when did a person's football knowledge correspond with their team's ladder position?

Anyway, Carlton fans would know a lot about s**t football and so that makes them experts on what Melbourne dished up on Saturday

It's a fair point to raise at this early stage: Are Melbourne the most overrated team in the AFL? Pretty much universally pegged to finish Top 3 or 4 and maybe play in the Grand Final or even win the flag. They finished 5th on the ladder last year. A top 4 spot was there for the taking, but they could only manage 14 wins... And they weren't THAT impressive in defeating a tired, depleted Hawthorn side in the semi final before they were destroyed and humiliated by the Eagles in the Prelim. Is their list really that good? Who are their A-graders?

 

[WestCoast05]

The only relevant one here is Brisbane turned up.

Hardened? Oh please LMAO.

I've never seem so many excuses after a loss.

Whatever drama Queen.

Nothing wrong if some of us forumers want to discuss possible reasons in detail why one team got up over another in a particular game.
Doesn't need to be viewed as 'excuses', just possible 'reasons'. We're on a footy forum and are free to discuss.
It says more about your own immaturity that you can't engage in that type of discussion without viewing it as excuses.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Whatever drama Queen.

Nothing wrong if some of us forumers want to discuss possible reasons in detail why one team got up over another in a particular game.
Doesn't need to be viewed as 'excuses', just possible 'reasons'. We're on a footy forum and are free to discuss.
It says more about your own immaturity that you can't engage in that type of discussion without viewing it as excuses.

You are the reigning Premiers, you got outscored 14 goals to 2 against a minnow. They ARE NOT hardened.

Why don't you just admit what it was instead of list countless irrelevant points? Why didn't those same points effect Port? Who had far worse to deal with and won easily. Oh yeah we also didn't win the free kick count convincingly like you manage to most weeks.

The only immature one is people such as yourself who can't admit what was the real reason. But yeah go on blaming everyone but the Eagles...

Why do I have to keep defending Adelaide whose fans freely admitted the problems of the game? I don't see a single one of them blaming anyone but themselves after that game.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

to me most impressive was hawthorn. take nothing away from the giants/freo but they played wictches hats.

the crows were up for the contest but they just got bullied but a tougher/smarter side.

 

[GordonBlue]

You cant hold media hype against teams. That's beyond stupid.

Also, the Blues might have been a less disappointing loser but that's only because expectation for them is basically one step above Gold Coast so not losing by 10 goals is on par.

In a round of upsets, of course the expected losers will be less disappointing (except for ridiculous blowouts like Essendon).

Err what moulds expectations? Hype. Hype by media, hype by fans, hype by armchair and keyboard experts...

I give you Adelaide as an example. I went on your board throughout the trade and draft period (as it seem Adelaide is the only team Carlton does any business with) and after the draft live trade, it was basically unanimous on your board that Adelaide will climb up and make the finals and a portion too large for reason had top 4. This was also all over social media. Carlton were at the same time placed bottom 2, with at best 3rd last.

After the first round, opinions on Carlton remain the exact same. I personally thought they outputted better than what I thought they can. Doubt many have changed their opinion on Carlton from that game. Hence disappointing factor is minimal.

Whereas Adelaide, if you compare to what others have outputted (and I am too aware that round 1 is nowhere near a true indication of the full year ahead... however it is the only indication we do have), you would rate them below quite a number of teams. I can give teams like West Coast, Pies, Swans, Dees some kind of slack as they did make finals last year and most went deep, but that is not given to Adelaide. Based on that (and with hope as well... draft picks and all) I see Adelaide on the same level as maybe Dogs, North and Essendon, who are only above Suns, Blues and Saints.

 

[gavaniacono]

The tiges deserve special mention. Went missing for 2 quarters in each of their last 2 games and the prelim. All is not well right now at punt road.

 

[GordonBlue]

I should clarify: My rating is based on how I had them rated coming into round 1 and how round 1 affected my opinions of them.

Whilst the output of Essendon and North was far worse than say Adelaide and Melbourne, I had the latter two rated way higher... plus considering the home ground, the opposition and the situation (i.e. opposition with larger injury list).

Also, looking at player to player, I do have Melbourne as the team with the best list. Tigers are the best team, Collingwood are the best midfield, Eagles are the most organised and best defensive rebounder etc (all based on last year), however I think Melbourne has the best 22 all over the ground.

 

[Kermit]

Surely a mistake, coming off the last few seasons how was what happened today in any way disappointing

Of course it was a mistake- just pointing it out to the poster who made it

 

[sprockets]

Did Essendon play with lead boots?

This is why they brought in Stringer.

 

[WestCoast05]

You are the reigning Premiers, you got outscored 14 goals to 2 against a minnow. They ARE NOT hardened.

Why don't you just admit what it was instead of list countless irrelevant points? Why didn't those same points effect Port? Who had far worse to deal with and won easily. Oh yeah we also didn't win the free kick count convincingly like you manage to most weeks.

The only immature one is people such as yourself who can't admit what was the real reason. But yeah go on blaming everyone but the Eagles...

Why do I have to keep defending Adelaide whose fans freely admitted the problems of the game? I don't see a single one of them blaming anyone but themselves after that game.

By hardened I'm talking about the mindset they came to the game with unlike our guys who came with a mindset hoping for some bruise free footy. They were ready to go all in, we were not. Call it an excuse or a reason, whatever, but I will free to discuss such things on a footy forum. I don't view looking for the reasons an underdog beat a team expected to win as some sort of taboo subject.

Look in all honesty it sounds like the fortunes of your footy club mean a lot more to you than to me. So all power (pun intended) to you, but I am not passionately trying to find excuses.
If this year we fall from Grace and the only reason I have to put forward for any loss is that we are s**t then I will be perfectly happy to do so once that becomes clear. If however, as I suspect, we are still a contender and that performance is an anomaly then it may turn out my reasons for said anomaly are valid.

Either way, I think this discussion has run its course and we will just have to agree to disagree.
I've said my piece and the only reason I replied was to clarify the 'hardened' statement.

 

[Toump Ass]

Poor comment. Since when did a person's football knowledge correspond with their team's ladder position?

So you defend someone who claims Melbourne has "the best list", then ask who Melbourne's A-graders are?

You have no idea what you're actually talking about, do you?

Are Melbourne the most overrated team in the AFL? Pretty much universally pegged to finish Top 3 or 4 and maybe play in the Grand Final or even win the flag.

I know right?

Can't believe Collingwood, Adelaide and Melbourne missed the eight in 2019... and West Coast finished bottom 4 as well!

... they weren't THAT impressive in defeating a tired, depleted Hawthorn side in the semi final

"tired"

Oh lord! That's literally the worst excuse for a loss I've ever seen.

And for the record it was pretty good actually- had to beat West Coast in Perth and GWS and Sydney at home to make the finals, then beat two teams who have played tonnes of finals series between them when we hadn't played finals since 2006.

And we smashed you by the way... it wasn't even close.

Is their list really that good? Who are their A-graders?

It's not the best but it's pretty good.

A-graders are Gawn and Oliver... maybe Brayshaw too.

 

[PAFC_1870]

who came with a mindset hoping for some bruise free footy

Finally, you admitted it.

 

[WestCoast05]

Finally, you admitted it.

Haha what!?

Are you 12 years old or something. I mean it's alright if you are but at least I will know why this conversation is so disjointed.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Are you 12 years old or something.

Says the guy who posted this? No one is allowed to disagree with you? I'm not the one making excuse after excuse and pretending they are reasons... why not just admit that to begin with? This conversation wouldn't have occurred if you just admitted to begin with WCE went up there thinking it'd be easy. But hey, bring up humidity, hardened Lions, underdone players, shorter pre-season....

It was a Round 1 Premiership Hangover, that's what it was. They thought it was just a given at minimum, and at worse, lacked real motivation, which would only be known after a much longer period.

Either way, I think this discussion has run its course and we will just have to agree to disagree.
I've said my piece and the only reason I replied was to clarify the 'hardened' statement.

 

[CrowInFiji]

Err what moulds expectations? Hype. Hype by media, hype by fans, hype by armchair and keyboard experts...

I give you Adelaide as an example. I went on your board throughout the trade and draft period (as it seem Adelaide is the only team Carlton does any business with) and after the draft live trade, it was basically unanimous on your board that Adelaide will climb up and make the finals and a portion too large for reason had top 4. This was also all over social media. Carlton were at the same time placed bottom 2, with at best 3rd last.

After the first round, opinions on Carlton remain the exact same. I personally thought they outputted better than what I thought they can. Doubt many have changed their opinion on Carlton from that game. Hence disappointing factor is minimal.

Whereas Adelaide, if you compare to what others have outputted (and I am too aware that round 1 is nowhere near a true indication of the full year ahead... however it is the only indication we do have), you would rate them below quite a number of teams. I can give teams like West Coast, Pies, Swans, Dees some kind of slack as they did make finals last year and most went deep, but that is not given to Adelaide. Based on that (and with hope as well... draft picks and all) I see Adelaide on the same level as maybe Dogs, North and Essendon, who are only above Suns, Blues and Saints.

You missed the whole point. Talk about double digit IQ

 

[Back One Out]

So you defend someone who claims Melbourne has "the best list", then ask who Melbourne's A-graders are? You have no idea what you're actually talking about, do you? I know right? Can't believe Collingwood, Adelaide and Melbourne missed the eight in 2019... and West Coast finished bottom 4 as well! "tired" Oh lord! That's literally the worst excuse for a loss I've ever seen. And for the record it was pretty good actually- had to beat West Coast in Perth and GWS and Sydney at home to make the finals, then beat two teams who have played tonnes of finals series between them when we hadn't played finals since 2006. And we smashed you by the way... it wasn't even close. It's not the best but it's pretty good. A-graders are Gawn and Oliver... maybe Brayshaw too.

It's not excuses. I'm not bleating that we coulda shoulda won. I'm just stating the facts. Hawthorn had used up all its petrol tickets over the previous two months just to make the Top 8.

They went into that semi final minus O'Meara; Burgoyne played with a cracked rib; Luke Breust struggled yhtu the game with a hip injury; Sicily was underdone and rusty in just his 2nd game in 2 months following a broken wrist; Jetta also lined up Tom Mitchell with a ripper bump early in the game that stuffed his shoulder. Mitchell battled on at about 50% capacity. Plus we had zero contribution from 4 or 5 of our overawed youngsters.

The Hawks were cherry ripe for an absolute BELTING that night. A really good team would've smashed us by 10 goals. Melbourne won by 33 points - 24 scoring shots to 21 - The Hawks missed a few very gettable chances and yet they still made you and all Demon mates poo your pants when they closed to the margin to 12 points halfway through the last quarter.

That isn't a "smashing". It was a lacklustre performance all round.

A smashing is what West Coast did to you one week later.


1st quarter
01m 08s - WCE 0.1.1 - Melb 0.0.0 - Rioli behind
04m 45s - WCE 1.1.7 Melb 0.0.0 Kennedy goal
07m 16s - WCE 1.1.7 - Melb 0.1.1 - Melksham behind
08m 22s - WCE 1.1.7 - Melb 0.2.2 - Smith behind
09m 08s - WCE 2.1.13 Melb 0.2.2 Cripps goal
11m 21s - WCE 2.1.13 - Melb 0.3.3 - Rushed behind
14m 23s - WCE 2.2.14 - Melb 0.3.3 - Darling behind
14m 51s - WCE 2.3.15 - Melb 0.3.3 - Rushed behind
16m 21s - WCE 3.3.21 Melb 0.3.3 Darling goal
18m 08s - WCE 3.4.22 - Melb 0.3.3 - Darling behind
19m 23s - WCE 3.5.23 - Melb 0.3.3 - Venables behind
21m 08s - WCE 3.6.24 - Melb 0.3.3 - LeCras behind
25m 18s - WCE 3.7.25 - Melb 0.3.3 - Rushed behind
27m 17s - WCE 3.8.26 - Melb 0.3.3 - Rushed behind
28m 11s - WCE 4.8.32 Melb 0.3.3 Cripps goal

2nd quarter
00m 47s - WCE 5.8.38 Melb 0.3.3 Kennedy goal
02m 29s - WCE 6.8.44 Melb 0.3.3 Kennedy goal
06m 48s - WCE 6.9.45 - Melb 0.3.3 - Rioli behind
08m 27s - WCE 7.9.51 Melb 0.3.3 Ryan goal
10m 13s - WCE 8.9.57 Melb 0.3.3 LeCras goal
16m 15s - WCE 8.9.57 - Melb 0.4.4 - Oliver behind
18m 43s - WCE 9.9.63 Melb 0.4.4 Kennedy goal
21m 59s - WCE 9.9.63 - Melb 0.5.5 - Spargo behind
24m 21s - WCE 10.9.69 Melb 0.5.5 Darling goal
29m 11s - WCE 10.9.69 - Melb 0.6.6 - Petracca behind

1/4 time - WCE 4.8.32 ____Melb 0.3.3
1/2 time - WCE 10.9.69 ___Melb 0.6.6 - GAME OVER
3/4 time - WCE 15.10.100 _Melb 5.9.39
Full time - WCE 18.13.121 _Melb 7.13.55



I dunno mate. Maybe the questions about Melbourne need to be asked.

Why has everyone blown so much smoke up their arses?
What have they actually achieved?
Is their list really that good?
Are they tough enough?

Fair questions, I think.

 

[Toump Ass]

It's not excuses.

No, of course not.

"Hawthorn were tired" (didn't nap during the week off?)
"5 youngsters were overawed" (because of Melbourne's superior finals experience obviously )
"O'Meara didn't play" (one player down, unbelievable disadvantage... surprised the Hawks didn't forfeit? So brave!)

The questions about Melbourne need to be asked

Is their list really that good?

Few cones today mate? Friendly reminder: you're the one defending the poster who claimed Melbourne's list was "the best in the AFL"... I'm the one that said the didn't know s**t about football

Now tell me again how a team with not a single A-grader and a combined total of 20 games finals experience were able to beat the incredible Hawthorn Footy Club at the MCG in the 2018 finals series.

 

[Vintage]

Telstra tracker suggest there is a one standout for embarrassing effort of the round.
Kilometres per team:
tracker blues 292 tigers 288 suns 285 eagles 285 saints 281 cats 279 lions 279 pies 277 power 276 swans 275 dees 273 dogs 271 hawks 268 crows 266 giants 242 dons 147

I’m calling bs or a typo. It’s too far below anyone else to be right.

 

[roz1812]

A lot of people hyping Freo up after Round 1 when hardly anyone rated them as even a finals hope preseason. North were so dreadful, most teams would of belted them. I think you have to take into account the lack of pressure/defensive intensity of North and their countless turnovers when analysing Freo's performance. Obviously its good signs that they are moving the ball quickly and scoring more but the real test is if they can keep it up against teams like Richmond and Geelong who have solid defensive structures and pressure.

The most disappointing team was Adelaide. I had them top of the ladder coming into the season but they looked very ordinary. Full credit to Hawthorn as many people had written them off (including myself) preseason, but Adelaide were so dysfunctional with their ball movement and their forward line was out of sync badly. Some of that has to be put down to Hawthorn's defensive structures but with Adelaide's midfield dominance it simply isn't good enough. Guys like Walker and Jenkins need to stop being so soft if Adelaide are going to have any chance this season.

Melbourne were also disappointing. Their outside game was severely exposed on the weekend Several instances they had no one on the outside of stoppages and didn't run hard enough defensively. The stats in the game also suggest a lack of defensive effort also, Port had 93 more disposals while having 18 more tackles. That's pretty damning. I think the new rule changes hurt the Demons as last season they used to play 2 behind the ball at centre bounces and their lack of leg speed is more exposed now the game is more open.

Brisbane are going to be tough to beat this year especially at home you would think. What impressed me more than the fact they won against West Coast was that they won after being 5 goals down at quarter time. Previous years they would of capitulated and got smashed. However on the weekend they came out and dominated the Eagles for the remaining 3 quarters. Eagles were missing a few players but the Lions performance showed the talent that everyone knows is on that list and they are a huge shot at the top 8 this season.

Another team that impressed me was the Western Bulldogs. I though they were going to be in for a tough season and had them right down the ladder but I think they may be better than that. Although Sydney are past their best , they still have a very experienced team with quality players so its a good win for the Dogs. Their first half was as good as anyone's on the weekend and I was mostly impressed by their inside work. 26 more contested possessions which is what Sydney are renowned for is a top effort. Sydney came at them hard late in the game and got within a goal but the Dogs managed to fend off the momentum and win which is a very positive sign

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Telstra tracker suggest there is a one standout for embarrassing effort of the round.
Kilometres per team:
tracker blues 292 tigers 288 suns 285 eagles 285 saints 281 cats 279 lions 279 pies 277 power 276 swans 275 dees 273 dogs 271 hawks 268 crows 266 giants 242 dons 147

That is staggering if true...

 

[SacksonvilleJags]

I don’t believe the teams that played poorly will necessarily be at the bottom of the ladder. The same way I don’t believe that the teams that won will be in finals contention. There are still a lot of games left to play and it will sort out the men from the boys.

 

[Roobs321]

Hard to argue with the solid OP, nice assessment of the Round 1 shenanigans.

Whilst I've been rating Brisbane highly the last 12 months, so their win isn't quite as surprising as some others, walking the walk in a memorable result for them is a worthy enough #1.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

That is staggering if true...

Been reported That the Bombers GPS tracking was faulty for some time during the game. I think this myth can be put to bed.

From the stands it did look like the Bombers tired chasing in very warm sticky conditions, it stemmed from losing the fight for the ball though.

 

[juddymarvelous]

Most impressive GWS.
Most disappointing Essendon.

Reflected by the AFL ladder, not my emotions.

 

[nahnah]

Most impressive - ports kids

Most disappointing - Bombers