Strategy Changes v Carltank, Sunday April 21st

[perro_loco]

Perhaps one will get the weeping boy trophy and the other will get a whipping.

ah yeah, thanks for fixing my spelling however, the way they play sometimes they make you weep and often you wished you had a whip!

 

[ossie_21]

Lol I cannot helpbut laugh at the people wanting Trengove in place of Tim. It makes zero tactical sense

He will win probably 10% more hit outs than English and do less around the ground.

Guess some people just back a horse and keep riding it even with no evidence they will improve the team

We are not a contender so why play older blokes in front of kids for very little(if any) net gain. Suckling and Dickson sare the next two out to VFL and an end to their time

I wouldn’t say in place of, but I want him in for support of him. Last season towards the end we improved when he was in the ruck. Hit outs alone he won’t win much more, but he will compete harder for longer than what English can for now.

Presuming he takes Schache’s spot, at least he’ll crash packs & put his body on the line

 

[Mattdougie]

He was actually pretty good towards the end of last season. Best ruckman we've had in a few years now, and his good form coincided with our form as a team improving. Just like some people back a horse and stick with it, some s**t on one and refuse to ever admit they might have been wrong.

Said I was wrong about Dickson

Who else have I been wrong about? Hrovat? Scahache? Jong? Yeah nah

 

[Mattdougie]

I wouldn’t say in place of, but I want him in for support of him. Last season towards the end we improved when he was in the ruck. Hit outs alone he won’t win much more, but he will compete harder for longer than what English can for now.

Presuming he takes Schache’s spot, at least he’ll crash packs & put his body on the line

I stated several times Tim needs help but there is no substantial gain in replacing him with Trengove. Jackson is an average ruckman and competes less around the ground than Tim does.

As a duo it makes some sense, but a coach who doesn’t rate ruckman at all probably isn’t going to play two. As a replacement it’s a list build error on every level. Same as Dickson plying before Lipinski, Greene or West

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

How does Gowers stay but Schache gets dropped?

At least Schache is an accurate kick? And he can play in the ruck?

Gowers has virtually zero value as a forward. Even when he gets it he can't convert?

And Dunkley is NOT a forward ffs. Why is he playing there?

 

[Northernsoul74]

How does Gowers stay but Schache gets dropped?

At least Schache is an accurate kick? And he can play in the ruck?

Gowers has virtually zero value as a forward. Even when he gets it he can't convert?

And Dunkley is NOT a forward ffs. Why is he playing there?

Schache’s effort was inexcusable last week. As a coaching group you can’t let that slide, it would set a terrible example.

 

[footyfan000001]

How does Gowers stay but Schache gets dropped?

At least Schache is an accurate kick? And he can play in the ruck?

Gowers has virtually zero value as a forward. Even when he gets it he can't convert?

And Dunkley is NOT a forward ffs. Why is he playing there?

Gowers might not kick as straight as Schack but at least he gives 110% all the time.

 

[cecil]

Lol I cannot helpbut laugh at the people wanting Trengove in place of Tim. It makes zero tactical sense

He will win probably 10% more hit outs than English and do less around the ground.

Guess some people just back a horse and keep riding it even with no evidence they will improve the team

We are not a contender so why play older blokes in front of kids for very little(if any) net gain. Suckling and Dickson sare the next two out to VFL and an end to their time

How the hell is Suckling close to being dropped? He'd be top 10 in our B&F at the moment.

 

[TommyD13]

Im assuming the bench will be Lloyd, Smith, Hayes and Young, which means Lipinski misses out yet again after strong VFL form, stronger than Hayes as well. Disappointed with this to be honest, bloke loves the club and has been killing it at the lower level

 

[dogwatch]

How does Gowers stay but Schache gets dropped?

At least Schache is an accurate kick? And he can play in the ruck?

Gowers has virtually zero value as a forward. Even when he gets it he can't convert?

...

Right now that's an easy call.

Gowers kicked more goals than anybody else at the club last year. He wasn't great but in a poor year across the board he at least kicked them. This year he's been patchy but he still leads the goalkicking with Naughton.

Gowers has kicked 32.25 from 24 games in his short career. That's 1.33 goals a game and 56% accuracy from his scoring shots.
In Josh Schache's short career he has kicked 47.38 from 44 games. That's 1.07 goals a game and 55% accuracy.

So Gowers has Schache shaded on the scoring stats but it goes further than that. Gowers is in front on nearly all other stats, including kicks, handballs, marks, marks inside 50, tackles, CPs, i50s, clearances, goal assists etc. The only significant things Schache leads on are hit outs, CMs and 1%ers and all of those are marginal.

And that's just the stats. Gowers competes in far more contests and while some of them might not result in a personal stat they help apply pressure which can lead to turnovers and goals to us. At the moment Schache just isn't competing in anywhere near the same way.

I'm not a Schache hater - I haven't given up on him. I think he'll be back but he clearly has a fair bit to work on. Nor am I a Gowers lover. He has plenty of limitations but he is competitive and most of the time he'll have a good crack. Both are still young and inexperienced. Both have shown enough to deserve more time and in due course, more opportunities.

They aren't always competing for the same spot but until Schache competes at Gowers' level Billy is always going to get preference over him.

 

[TiAn_]

Some interesting aspects this week.

- Carlton have generated the highest number of stoppages in the league so far this year, whilst our games have had the fewest.

- A higher volume stoppage game would seem to suit us, as Carlton are -20 in clearances (16th) and -11 in CPs (13th), whilst, despite having the fewest opportunities, we are +28 for clearances (T-1st) and +19 for CPs (6th).

- The two teams' capacity in the contest is pretty clearly reflected in their respective abilities to gain and prevent I50s, as Carlton have conceded 59 I50s per game (18th) and we have generated 63 per game (1st), whilst at the other end, we have conceded only 49 I50s per game (1st) and Carlton have generated just 50 per game (14th).

- Carlton average 8.3 marks inside 50 per game (18th), whilst we average 12.8 (4th). Relative to I50s, the numbers don't get any better for Carlton and get slightly less impressive for us, as Carlton is averaging 0.16 MI50 per I50 (18th), whilst we are averaging 0.20 (9th).

- Where things get really dicey is once both teams get the ball I50, where Carlton are only slightly better than us at converting I50s into goals, with Carlton averaging 0.19 goals per I50 (15th) while we average 0.18 (18th).

- Even though we have conceded the fewest I50s per game and Carlton have conceded the most, Carlton average 77.3 intercept possessions (8th) while we average 74 (9th). Sure, you can take from that that our defensive structure is probably better than theirs, but our intercepts are also occurring further up the ground than Carlton's (i.e. before an I50 is conceded), reflected in the I50s numbers and also by Libba and Macrae trailing only Suckling, Duryea, Crozier and Cordy for intercept possessions, whilst Carlton's top six interceptors are all defenders.

- Unfortunately, that advantage may not be as prominent as it may have been, as our two leading intercept players are indeed Suckling and Duryea, who are both out this week. Hopefully Young's good form as an interceptor carries into AFL.

- We will need to work hard to limit Carlton's ability to release the pressure valve with bail out marks; Carlton average 14 contested marks (2nd), whilst we concede an average of 16 (18th).

We should win the midfield battle and generate a huge number of I50s against Carlton, while limiting their forwards' opportunities. Carlton are poor at winning the ball and, even when they do, poorer still at generating a mark inside 50 or goal. We aren't much better once we get the ball I50, but weight of numbers should win the day for us. If we turn our midfield ascendancy into at least 13-14 goals (Carlton haven’t kicked more than 11), don’t heavily concede the aerial battle and Williams and Young can be a half decent facsimile Duryea and Suckling as interceptors, we should win with moderate comfort.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Some interesting aspects this week.

- Carlton have generated the highest number of stoppages in the league so far this year, whilst our games have had the fewest.

- A higher volume stoppage game would seem to suit us, as Carlton are -20 in clearances (16th) and -11 in CPs (13th), whilst, despite having the fewest opportunities, we are +28 for clearances (T-1st) and +19 for CPs (6th).

- The two teams' capacity in the contest is pretty clearly reflected in their respective abilities to gain and prevent I50s, as Carlton have conceded 59 I50s per game (18th) and we have generated 63 per game (1st), whilst at the other end, we have conceded only 49 I50s per game (1st) and Carlton have generated just 50 per game (14th).

- Carlton average 8.3 marks inside 50 per game (18th), whilst we average 12.8 (4th). Relative to I50s, the numbers don't get any better for Carlton and get slightly less impressive for us, as Carlton is averaging 0.16 MI50 per I50 (18th), whilst we are averaging 0.20 (9th).

- Where things get really dicey is once both teams get the ball I50, where Carlton are only slightly better than us at converting I50s into goals, with Carlton averaging 0.19 goals per I50 (15th) while we average 0.18 (18th).

- Even though we have conceded the fewest I50s per game and Carlton have conceded the most, Carlton average 77.3 intercept possessions (8th) while we average 74 (9th). Sure, you can take from that that our defensive structure is probably better than theirs, but our intercepts are also occurring further up the ground than Carlton's (i.e. before an I50 is conceded), reflected in the I50s numbers and also by Libba and Macrae trailing only Suckling, Duryea, Crozier and Cordy for intercept possessions, whilst Carlton's top six interceptors are all defenders.

- Unfortunately, that advantage may not be as prominent as it may have been, as our two leading intercept players are indeed Suckling and Duryea, who are both out this week. Hopefully Young's good form as an interceptor carries into AFL.

- We will need to work hard to limit Carlton's ability to release the pressure valve with bail out marks; Carlton average 14 contested marks (2nd), whilst we concede an average of 16 (18th).

We should win the midfield battle and generate a huge number of I50s against Carlton, while limiting their forwards' opportunities. Carlton are poor at winning the ball and, even when they do, poorer still at generating a mark inside 50 or goal. We aren't much better once we get the ball I50, but weight of numbers should win the day for us. If we turn our midfield ascendancy into at least 13-14 goals (Carlton haven’t kicked more than 11), don’t heavily concede the aerial battle and Williams and Young can be a half decent facsimile Duryea and Suckling as interceptors, we should win with moderate comfort.

Very interesting...I’ve never seen ‘facsimile’ used in that context. Very interesting, indeed.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Gowers might not kick as straight as Schack but at least he gives 110% all the time.

He does try but he has been a liability this year. 5 possessions for a mid size forward is inexcusable. His JLT for was bad and this has continued. He is a Bev love child so he will not be dropped not matter how bad he is. There stats are very similar and he only has 2 more tackles than Schack. I agree that Schack effort is not great at times but a med sized forward should have far higher stats especially tackles than a tall. I would be fine if both were dropped.

 

[Munnez]

Surely smith doesn’t get dropped!!

Smith and Trenners the other 2 spots
Lippi comes in if there is a fourth change

 

[Munnez]

Man our back six ...bevo got some balls . This is a huge game for him .

Certainly has the potential to be season defining Lose this and the energy will sink like a stone. Will be very difficult to come back from.
A win would leave us still in the hunt to maybe pinch a finals spot. Lose and the team confidence would be shot to pieces

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Suckling is a huge out, he’s had a really good year. Him and Croz have been fantastic pick ups.

 

[Next Waiting]

Hunter and Hayes relentlessly running up and down the wings and delivering the ball with pin point precession.

You like this.

Both can offer an out and/or an option because of their aerobic capacity which in itself has value. If the team plans around using that capacity as a link to put more damaging and players in possession from the centre line forward then their precession is relativistic.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Some interesting aspects this week.

- Carlton have generated the highest number of stoppages in the league so far this year, whilst our games have had the fewest.

- A higher volume stoppage game would seem to suit us, as Carlton are -20 in clearances (16th) and -11 in CPs (13th), whilst, despite having the fewest opportunities, we are +28 for clearances (T-1st) and +19 for CPs (6th).

- The two teams' capacity in the contest is pretty clearly reflected in their respective abilities to gain and prevent I50s, as Carlton have conceded 59 I50s per game (18th) and we have generated 63 per game (1st), whilst at the other end, we have conceded only 49 I50s per game (1st) and Carlton have generated just 50 per game (14th).

- Carlton average 8.3 marks inside 50 per game (18th), whilst we average 12.8 (4th). Relative to I50s, the numbers don't get any better for Carlton and get slightly less impressive for us, as Carlton is averaging 0.16 MI50 per I50 (18th), whilst we are averaging 0.20 (9th).

- Where things get really dicey is once both teams get the ball I50, where Carlton are only slightly better than us at converting I50s into goals, with Carlton averaging 0.19 goals per I50 (15th) while we average 0.18 (18th).

- Even though we have conceded the fewest I50s per game and Carlton have conceded the most, Carlton average 77.3 intercept possessions (8th) while we average 74 (9th). Sure, you can take from that that our defensive structure is probably better than theirs, but our intercepts are also occurring further up the ground than Carlton's (i.e. before an I50 is conceded), reflected in the I50s numbers and also by Libba and Macrae trailing only Suckling, Duryea, Crozier and Cordy for intercept possessions, whilst Carlton's top six interceptors are all defenders.

- Unfortunately, that advantage may not be as prominent as it may have been, as our two leading intercept players are indeed Suckling and Duryea, who are both out this week. Hopefully Young's good form as an interceptor carries into AFL.

- We will need to work hard to limit Carlton's ability to release the pressure valve with bail out marks; Carlton average 14 contested marks (2nd), whilst we concede an average of 16 (18th).

We should win the midfield battle and generate a huge number of I50s against Carlton, while limiting their forwards' opportunities. Carlton are poor at winning the ball and, even when they do, poorer still at generating a mark inside 50 or goal. We aren't much better once we get the ball I50, but weight of numbers should win the day for us. If we turn our midfield ascendancy into at least 13-14 goals (Carlton haven’t kicked more than 11), don’t heavily concede the aerial battle and Williams and Young can be a half decent facsimile Duryea and Suckling as interceptors, we should win with moderate comfort.

lock it in Eddie

 

[bresker]

Right now that's an easy call.

Gowers kicked more goals than anybody else at the club last year. He wasn't great but in a poor year across the board he at least kicked them. This year he's been patchy but he still leads the goalkicking with Naughton.

Gowers has kicked 32.25 from 24 games in his short career. That's 1.33 goals a game and 56% accuracy from his scoring shots.
In Josh Schache's short career he has kicked 47.38 from 44 games. That's 1.07 goals a game and 55% accuracy.

So Gowers has Schache shaded on the scoring stats but it goes further than that. Gowers is in front on nearly all other stats, including kicks, handballs, marks, marks inside 50, tackles, CPs, i50s, clearances, goal assists etc. The only significant things Schache leads on are hit outs, CMs and 1%ers and all of those are marginal.

And that's just the stats. Gowers competes in far more contests and while some of them might not result in a personal stat they help apply pressure which can lead to turnovers and goals to us. At the moment Schache just isn't competing in anywhere near the same way.

I'm not a Schache hater - I haven't given up on him. I think he'll be back but he clearly has a fair bit to work on. Nor am I a Gowers lover. He has plenty of limitations but he is competitive and most of the time he'll have a good crack. Both are still young and inexperienced. Both have shown enough to deserve more time and in due course, more opportunities.

They aren't always competing for the same spot but until Schache competes at Gowers' level Billy is always going to get preference over him.

Great post. Gowers has become another whipping boy on here. It seems to have started when he missed that late kick against Gold Coast.

Gowers is limited, but there's something some posters seem to miss on here. Not every player on the list is a superstar! The Bulldogs are not Barcelona. We can't go out and buy Toby Greene. And we're not a destination club. Ideally Bont would be delivering to Bont but the cloning machine is out of action at the moment.

Gowers came from the VFL. Cavarra's injured. Roarke Smith as a pressure forward sounds interesting but he stank the seniors up something rotten last year.

Gowers was are leading goalkicker last year.Does that count for nothing?

Our delivery into the forward line is our biggest problem. We clog the midfield, play on the left and take an age to deliver s**t balls into the 50.

Unlike Schache, Gowers drops deep to demand the ball. I don't think he does it enough, as he's actually a more creative and penetrating kick than many of our mids. Schache is a good field kick too, but he doesn't work hard enough to get into the positions to do it. Or he's being played out of position, as some on here surmise.

 

[bresker]

Suckling is a huge out, he’s had a really good year. Him and Croz have been fantastic pick ups.

I used to think Suckers was soft but he's actually hard as nails. I think we've Bulldogged him up. Gets back to spoil or mark all the time and beats bigger opponents. Big out.

 

[Libba39]

Great post. Gowers has become another whipping boy on here. It seems to have started when he missed that late kick against Gold Coast.

Gowers is limited, but there's something some posters seem to miss on here. Not every player on the list is a superstar! The Bulldogs are not Barcelona. We can't go out and buy Toby Greene. And we're not a destination club. Ideally Bont would be delivering to Bont but the cloning machine is out of action at the moment.

Gowers came from the VFL. Cavarra's injured. Roarke Smith as a pressure forward sounds interesting but he stank the seniors up something rotten last year.

Gowers was are leading goalkicker last year.Does that count for nothing?

Our delivery into the forward line is our biggest problem. We clog the midfield, play on the left and take an age to deliver s**t balls into the 50.

Unlike Schache, Gowers drops deep to demand the ball. I don't think he does it enough, as he's actually a more creative and penetrating kick than many of our mids. Schache is a good field kick too, but he doesn't work hard enough to get into the positions to do it. Or he's being played out of position, as some on here surmise.

With Naughton, Dickson and Schache in the team I think Gowers is yet to find his niche. He obviously hasn't hit the ground running this year due to that wrist (?) injury also. While he didn't have a huge impact last week I thought he showed some signs in the second half and with Schache going out I feel like he could hit the scoreboard on Sunday.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Is Lachhie Young a bit like Hamling? Haven't seen him play yet

 

[Munnez]

What sort of player is Lachy Young a rangy Full Back with good closing speed or is he more a taller half back with a good turn of foot??

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Gowers might not kick as straight as Schack but at least he gives 110% all the time.

Does trying to get goals over the back instead of attacking a contest count? Because Billy has been doing more and more of that

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Great post. Gowers has become another whipping boy on here. It seems to have started when he missed that late kick against Gold Coast.

Gowers is limited, but there's something some posters seem to miss on here. Not every player on the list is a superstar! The Bulldogs are not Barcelona. We can't go out and buy Toby Greene. And we're not a destination club. Ideally Bont would be delivering to Bont but the cloning machine is out of action at the moment.

Gowers came from the VFL. Cavarra's injured. Roarke Smith as a pressure forward sounds interesting but he stank the seniors up something rotten last year.

Gowers was are leading goalkicker last year.Does that count for nothing?

Our delivery into the forward line is our biggest problem. We clog the midfield, play on the left and take an age to deliver s**t balls into the 50.

Unlike Schache, Gowers drops deep to demand the ball. I don't think he does it enough, as he's actually a more creative and penetrating kick than many of our mids. Schache is a good field kick too, but he doesn't work hard enough to get into the positions to do it. Or he's being played out of position, as some on here surmise.

Can we get Bont kicking straight before we fire up that cloning machine.