Analysis The Coach – Simon Goodwin: "Working incredibly hard" until at least 2026

[Toump Ass]

Just gonna vent here on a few somewhat unrelated topics:

1. It shits me the watching Shiel, Wingard and Scully run around knowing we had the best young KPF in the league for trade and ended up with potato instead. Would have prefered a cooked Vince over a half-cooked May, or even just using the high draft pick on someone who can kick or run.

2. How is this quote from Viney re: ANZAC Eve "I know the boys will be recovering their hardest and looking to put on their best football for the night."

Recover from what? You ******* pricks have barely broken out of a jog for 5 weeks.

3. Given how poor our inside 50's are, why don't just dump Pruess outside the 50m and kick it to him?

4. Said it before, will say it again: Goody ****ed up by trading party boys. Evidence speaks for itself- we lost Watts and Hogan and we turned into s**t.
Pretty obvious Tommy Mac's not gonna organise baggies and strippers.

What a s**t season this is shaping up to be! Let's hope we can use that #1 pick on someone decent!

 

[Bluelegs]

I know it's a cliche but we really need to 'go back to basics'. We look like a side that has overcomplicated our game plan to the point that players don't really know where to stand or how to defend. Collingwood had the same problem until last year.

 

[Cannon82]

I know it's a cliche but we really need to 'go back to basics'. We look like a side that has overcomplicated our game plan to the point that players don't really know where to stand or how to defend. Collingwood had the same problem until last year.

Dunno about that - there doesn't appear to be anything remotely complicated about our game plan. It's more like the new 6-6-6 rules make it much harder for us to turn the game into a congested scrap and bring other teams down to our level.

 

[demondavey]

Just saying bring in leg speed is to short sighted. Yes we aren’t quick but the main issue at the moment is a complete lack of cohesion of team defence. Players just seem to keep pushing up and overcommit only to land in no mans land. Another big issue is wining ground balls inside 50m, the ball just pings out of the forward 50m the mids roll in to defend once half decent possession from the opposition an all of sudden Jetta, Hibberd, frost have 10 players and 100m of ground to defend. The defence must start inside the forward 50m with some kind of forward pressure.

We still seriously lack pace mate. It was ok last year when we were this unbelievably intense pressuring machine come finals. This year we are getting exploited hard the other way.

 

[Bluelegs]

Dunno about that - there doesn't appear to be anything remotely complicated about our game plan. It's more like the new 6-6-6 rules make it much harder for us to turn the game into a congested scrap and bring other teams down to our level.

I honestly don't see what 6-6-6 at centre bounces has to do with us letting opposition switch the play with literally no contest.

Probably half their inside 50s came about after we turned it over in our front half and StKilda switched to the other wing, the next contest being 30 metres out from their goal. It's the easiest most obvious play in modern footy and we get exposed by it every time we play at the MCG.

 

[Cannon82]

I honestly don't see what 6-6-6 at centre bounces has to do with us letting opposition switch the play with literally no contest.

Probably half their inside 50s came about after we turned it over in our front half and StKilda switched to the other wing, the next contest being 30 metres out from their goal. It's the easiest most obvious play in modern footy and we get exposed by it every time we play at the MCG.

Because every time we set up, we have to man up. It means that to have extra players in our defensive 50 like we did very often last year, someone on the wing or forward 50 has to leave their direct opponent and sprint back to the defensive 50... so it doesn't happen. Our game plan was about locking the ball into an area which meant we played with extra numbers behind the ball - that's a lot harder to do now.

I agree though that people simply picking up a man appears to be far more difficult for this team to grasp than it should. Play on your man and beat him would go a lot further than whatever it is they're trying to get the players to do now. We're not going to stop teams spreading though - we're a slow team and there's too much ground to cover, hence playing extras behind the ball and forcing teams to go down a wing so we can at least funnel them into a pocket rather than waltzing up the guts like they are now.

 

[saj_21]

We still seriously lack pace mate. It was ok last year when we were this unbelievably intense pressuring machine come finals. This year we are getting exploited hard the other way.

Because our defensive structures are non existent. That why sides look fast and we look slow, the have 2/3 of a ground to work in and we are just chasing tail.

Bringing in stretch and baker will do stuff all unless we get our structures are right. All they will do is chase tail slightly faster.

 

[Bluelegs]

Because every time we set up, we have to man up. It means that to have extra players in our defensive 50 like we did very often last year, someone on the wing or forward 50 has to leave their direct opponent and sprint back to the defensive 50... so it doesn't happen. Our game plan was about locking the ball into an area which meant we played with extra numbers behind the ball - that's a lot harder to do now.

I agree though that people simply picking up a man appears to be far more difficult for this team to grasp than it should. Play on your man and beat him would go a lot further than whatever it is they're trying to get the players to do now. We're not going to stop teams spreading though - we're a slow team and there's too much ground to cover, hence playing extras behind the ball and forcing teams to go down a wing so we can at least funnel them into a pocket rather than waltzing up the guts like they are now.

In the last part of the season last year when we played our best footy we were going 6-6-6. I just don't think the new rules have anything to do with our problems. Once the game is in play we can go wherever we want. We're not leaking that many goals from centre clearances. We're getting beaten in transition, we leaked goals that way early last year but we were more damaging the other way, so it wasn't as big of an issue.

 

[Demonkings]

Reckon our list management decisions last year have really damaged the list, mostly because of what they did to the age demographic. We lost Hogan, Kent, Tyson and Bugg. These players range from potential superstar to outright spuds, and individually they all had decent reasons to go or be let leave as the case may have been, but when you consider that all these guys were in their mid 20’s I honestly reckon their losses add up to something greater than the sum of their parts. VDB’s injury has only compounded this problem and it’s left a vacuum of physically mature players in the 23-27 age bracket in our team, and this is the age bracket that you need numbers in if you’re going to be finals ready. It’s no accident that Salem has become one of our most consistent performers and he’s just entered that age range.

So now our team lacks maturity, that much is clear, and Lewis and Jones are no longer at a stage in their careers where they can lead by example. Our lack of leadership is compounded by Viney and Tmac playing no where near their best. Gawn is probably the only senior player who is playing at or near his expected level. This all reads like a team headed to finish bottom 4 this season.

The team we are fielding at the moment is a combination of past it veterans, kids, fringe players, outright vfl level depth players and a smattering of good afl players who are drowning in it all. So drastic has the drop off been that I can’t see us seriously contending again until 2022, and that is if a lot goes right from here. Sadly that means I don’t think any of the players older than Gawn and Tmac (both 26 now) will get a shot at a premiership. We have gone from premiership window to needing a mini rebuild in the space of six months.

My last point is that footballers are human beings and players who stick around on a list for 5 or 6 years grow up with their team mates and form close bonds. When you make as many changes to personnel as we did last season, you are inevitably changing the club culture with it, whether you see these players as contributing positively or not. On top of last year’s departures we also lost Bernie Vince and Watts who despite what they may have given on the field, were a big part of the football club culture amongst the players. There are so many intangibles that you can’t really measure but get effected when these personalities depart. The only real message that comes through to the playing group for better or for worse is that Goody is ruthless. He has pruned back the list and sought to reset the club culture. He has sent us back to where we were around 2015. If he’s right then we’re winning flags around 2022-23, but if he’s wrong then he’s Mark Neeld 2.0. The way he’s taken the lopping shears to our mid aged, mid tier players, I don’t see there being much of a middle ground option.

 

[Cannon82]

In the last part of the season last year when we played our best footy we were going 6-6-6. I just don't think the new rules have anything to do with our problems. Once the game is in play we can go wherever we want. We're not leaking that many goals from centre clearances. We're getting beaten in transition, we leaked goals that way early last year but we were more damaging the other way, so it wasn't as big of an issue.

We would drop one or two men back into our defensive 50 regularly when the opposition got a run on and also have guys coming in off the back of the square. I doubt we played a standard 6-6-6 much at all. It's not all of our problems though, but I think that lack of flexibility is definitely part of the problem. Our poor skills, lack of pace and too many unfit / underdone players are also a big concern. When the team is playing this badly its never "one big thing" - there are lots of contributing factors to a team being this horrendous.

 

[Cannon82]

Reckon our list management decisions last year have really damaged the list, mostly because of what they did to the age demographic. We lost Hogan, Kent, Tyson and Bugg. These players range from potential superstar to outright spuds, and individually they all had decent reasons to go or be let leave as the case may have been, but when you consider that all these guys were in their mid 20’s I honestly reckon their losses add up to something greater than the sum of their parts. VDB’s injury has only compounded this problem and it’s left a vacuum of physically mature players in the 23-27 age bracket in our team, and this is the age bracket that you need numbers in if you’re going to be finals ready. It’s no accident that Salem has become one of our most consistent performers and he’s just entered that age range.

So now our team lacks maturity, that much is clear, and Lewis and Jones are no longer at a stage in their careers where they can lead by example. Our lack of leadership is compounded by Viney and Tmac playing no where near their best. Gawn is probably the only senior player who is playing at or near his expected level. This all reads like a team headed to finish bottom 4 this season.

The team we are fielding at the moment is a combination of past it veterans, kids, fringe players, outright vfl level depth players and a smattering of good afl players who are drowning in it all. So drastic has the drop off been that I can’t see us seriously contending again until 2022, and that is if a lot goes right from here. Sadly that means I don’t think any of the players older than Gawn and Tmac (both 26 now) will get a shot at a premiership. We have gone from premiership window to needing a mini rebuild in the space of six months.

My last point is that footballers are human beings and players who stick around on a list for 5 or 6 years grow up with their team mates and form close bonds. When you make as many changes to personnel as we did last season, you are inevitably changing the club culture with it, whether you see these players as contributing positively or not. On top of last year’s departures we also lost Bernie Vince and Watts who despite what they may have given on the field, were a big part of the football club culture amongst the players. There are so many intangibles that you can’t really measure but get effected when these personalities depart. The only real message that comes through to the playing group for better or for worse is that Goody is ruthless. He has pruned back the list and sought to reset the club culture. He has sent us back to where we were around 2015. If he’s right then we’re winning flags around 2022-23, but if he’s wrong then he’s Mark Neeld 2.0. The way he’s taken the lopping shears to our mid aged, mid tier players, I don’t see there being much of a middle ground option.

Losing Hogan would have been a blow, Kent was a bit of a loss as he can be handy when fit and playing well but Bugg and Tyson weren't anything more than occasionally useful depth. I don't see how having all four of those blokes available suddenly changes this horrific start to the season. If you want to talk about the missing "ideal age range" players, then its the Scully, Trengove, Tapscott, Watts, Cook, Blease, Gysberts, etc etc picks that we torched that left the hole in our list. Jettisoning some below average players at the end of last year was absolutely the right thing to do. Not much point having the right age demographic if it doesn't go hand in hand with ability.

 

[Demonkings]

Losing Hogan would have been a blow, Kent was a bit of a loss as he can be handy when fit and playing well but Bugg and Tyson weren't anything more than occasionally useful depth. I don't see how having all four of those blokes available suddenly changes this horrific start to the season. If you want to talk about the missing "ideal age range" players, then its the Scully, Trengove, Tapscott, Watts, Cook, Blease, Gysberts, etc etc picks that we torched that left the hole in our list. Jettisoning some below average players at the end of last year was absolutely the right thing to do. Not much point having the right age demographic if it doesn't go hand in hand with ability.

Bugg and Tyson aren’t good footballers, I’m not going to argue that with ya. But still they had strengths which is why they were able to last in the afl system until 25-26. Even if it’s just Tyson taking some heat off Oliver around stoppages or Bugg helping set training standards with his elite running, these skills aren’t that valuable but they’re probably more than Tim Smith or Declan Keilty are adding to our list right now. So Bugg and Tyson aren’t big losses, but added to Hogan and Kent leaving they start to make a big net loss in skill and experience. Add VDB injury, Viney and Tmac’s struggles it just means our mature mid tier players and depth has been decimated.

 

[Cannon82]

Bugg and Tyson aren’t good footballers, I’m not going to argue that with ya. But still they had strengths which is why they were able to last in the afl system until 25-26. Even if it’s just Tyson taking some heat off Oliver around stoppages or Bugg helping set training standards with his elite running, these skills aren’t that valuable but they’re probably more than Tim Smith or Declan Keilty are adding to our list right now. So Bugg and Tyson aren’t big losses, but added to Hogan and Kent leaving they start to make a big net loss in skill and experience. Add VDB injury, Viney and Tmac’s struggles it just means our mature mid tier players and depth has been decimated.

I really think you're overvaluing Bugg and Tyson's contributions there. The one thing we have in abundance is inside players to cover the loss of Tyson, and keeping Bugg around for training standards is clutching at straws.

The injury issues on the other hand are a huge problem. Not many players operating at full capacity at the moment.

 

[saj_21]

If we really think fringe players would turn around a performance like last night or would make the difference come Wednesday night, then we are well and truly doomed.

 

[Tulip]

Yes goalless quarters are a massive issue amongst everything else you pointed out but I want to address that one. First of all we kicked the first goal within a minute after that it was 3 goals to 12. Then we kicked the first goal of the second fairly early but didn't kick another until early in the last so basically you could say we went goalless for a half. I can't think of any team that is that dysfunctional up forward or even ever. How is it that every goal is hard work? Yet saints and every other team have so much time and space and no pressure what's so ever. Even when we do get some space we managed to completely stuff it up constantly. It's been an obvious problem for a while but winning has covered it up. Take the geelong game in the elimination final. We dominated the second quarter but kicked about 5 behinds in a row and Geelong went forward 2 and scored twice. Our game plan works only if we score goals. If teams absorb the so called pressure once your through it's easy scoring. It's rinse and repeat until the opposition is comfortable and ease off. I'm not sure if we can't execute the game plan or the game plan isn't effective anymore. The game tends to move quickly and we look like we missed the bus.

Preuss brought the ball to ground with a hand/fist multiple times in this second and third quarters, and we had absolutely nobody at ground level. Got to be in it to win it when play is against you, but Goodwin has totally abandoned crumbers as he did last year when we went on that horrible mid-season run. We'd obviously rather have Hannan and maybe Kent than Spargo and Hunt, but if you refuse to play Garlett then you have to get Spargo to the drop of the ball. Hunt is still learning his forward craft, and will have quiet ones like yesterday, but putting him into the midfield didn't help. It seems like everyone was moved back except that former full back who is clogging up the forward line.

 

[Tulip]

Honestly with that effort not a chance - but the big ground doesn't help with our lack of pressure/effort.

I'd like to see tmac dropped full stop, he has no place in the team as a defender, and while the knee jerk is to pull him back, Goodwin and co have to coach for getting lever and may back in a few weeks. We need a KPF. He needs to get some confidence beating up on people at vfl level.

Given how woeful our defence is, we'd be negligent not to swing our old FB through there for a few weeks. That would very much be coaching the side to deal with Lever and May's continued absences. The latter two are big boys on very big money, they need to be trusted to sort things out fairly sharpish when they return. Hopefully we have another win on the board by the time they get back.

 

[Cannon82]

Preuss brought the ball to ground with a hand/fist multiple times in this second and third quarters, and we had absolutely nobody at ground level. Got to be in it to win it when play is against you, but Goodwin has totally abandoned crumbers as he did last year when we went on that horrible mid-season run. We'd obviously rather have Hannan and maybe Kent than Spargo and Hunt, but if you refuse to play Garlett then you have to get Spargo to the drop of the ball. Hunt is still learning his forward craft, and will have quiet ones like yesterday, but putting him into the midfield didn't help. It seems like everyone was moved back except that former full back who is clogging up the forward line.

You're not wrong, but the person most at fault for Garlett not being in the side is Garlett. He's put in some putrid efforts over the last two years as a supposedly senior player. Can lay plenty of blame at Goodwin's feet for what's going on, but having trust issues with Garlett's performance level is justified.

 

[demondavey]

You're not wrong, but the person most at fault for Garlett not being in the side is Garlett. He's put in some putrid efforts over the last two years as a supposedly senior player. Can lay plenty of blame at Goodwin's feet for what's going on, but having trust issues with Garlett's performance level is justified.

Yeah I am only wanting Garlett anywhere near the side if he has gone back to his best in terms of pressure and tackling. His efforts last year were awful.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

While i acknowledge Garlett's efforts have been s**t in the past I'm with Tulip on this, all you're doing right now is hurting the team by keeping him out of the side,if you had trust issues with him you should have released him preseason.

To bring Lewis straight back into a side struggling for leg speed while having Garlett sit in the reserves when we lack crumbers is all sorts of ridiculous.

Goodwin is getting what he deserves for dumb moves such as this at the selection table.

 

[Cannon82]

While acknowledge Garlett's efforts have been s**t in the past I'm with Tulip on this, all you're doing right now is hurting the team by keeping him out of the side,if you had trust issues with him you should have released him preseason.

To bring Lewis straight back into a side struggling for leg speed while having Garlett sit in the reserves when we lack crumbers is all sorts of ridiculous.

Goodwin is getting what he deserves for dumb moves such as this at the selection table.

Not sure you can say he's hurting the team until Garlett actually puts some decent performances on the table, but it is weird that he didn't get picked after his first ever good VFL game and the fact that we're a ludicrously slow side with some dancing monkeys playing in the forward line. If Goodwin won't play him when we're this poor and this short of talent, then yeah, he may as well have delisted him at the end of last year.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Not sure you can say he's hurting the team until Garlett actually puts some decent performances on the table, but it is weird that he didn't get picked after his first ever good VFL game and the fact that we're a ludicrously slow side with some dancing monkeys playing in the forward line. If Goodwin won't play him when we're this poor and this short of talent, then yeah, he may as well have delisted him at the end of last year.

Having said all that, our inability to defend a ground we play the majority of our games on is far and away more of a problem than forward line crumbing.

Even with turtles plodding through our midfield It boggles the mind how s**t we are at defending space. Either Goodwin hasn't got a clue or the players are ignoring his instructions, it's either/either. The buck stops with the coach either way. Time to put some players on notice like has Garlett instead of taking care of his pets if it's the later.

 

[Demon 16]

Just saying bring in leg speed is to short sighted. Yes we aren’t quick but the main issue at the moment is a complete lack of cohesion of team defence. Players just seem to keep pushing up and overcommit only to land in no mans land. Another big issue is wining ground balls inside 50m, the ball just pings out of the forward 50m the mids roll in to defend once half decent possession from the opposition an all of sudden Jetta, Hibberd, frost have 10 players and 100m of ground to defend. The defence must start inside the forward 50m with some kind of forward pressure.

Agree with all of this.

I do think leg speed has become an issue though. We can’t rejig our plan too much because we have no fast mids to defend opposition offensive spreads. All of our big bodied contested ball winners are stuck around the footy and we have pressed the whole field too far forward.

If we had a couple of decent quick wingmen on the list we could tweak our plan to deal with this.

We also definitely need more leg speed in the forward half. We waste so much energy locking the ball in our forward half for lengths of time with zero reward.

If we had a couple of fleet footed small forwards we could afford to not press up so high after the opposition scores a few in a row, and slow the game down and use the slingshot.

We just don’t have a plan B because we have focused our entire plan on big bodies and contested footy along the boundaries.

 

[saj_21]

Having said all that, our inability to defend a ground we play the majority of our games on is far and away more of a problem than forward line crumbing.

Even with turtles plodding through our midfield It boggles the mind how s**t we are at defending space. Either Goodwin hasn't got a clue or the players are ignoring his instructions, it's either/either. The buck stops with the coach either way. Time to put some players on notice like has Garlett instead of taking care of his pets if it's the later.

But defence starts in the forward line, the fact there is no forward pressure allows the opposition to waltz out of our forward and through the midfield.

The two biggest changes we could make this week to make a dramatic improvement would be; winning some ground balls inside 50 and forward 50 tackles.

 

[CWaffles]

Would take Harley Gartlett over Spargo, atleast Jeffy is a danger to kick a goal.

 

[Topkent]

I was laughing at us in that 3rd quarter, everytime the saints got the ball in the back half they would hold. Then switch and they got the overlap without every trying every time. We didn't hold them up once. It was about as embarassing as defending gets