Review Dogs Completely Out Coached By Beveridge: Lose Badly To Blues

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Being interstate, I haven't had an opportunity to go to member's nights or the AGM or anything where supporters can interact with the coaches and team. At those functions, has anyone questioned selections or coaching movements or why our goal-kicking is so poor? It's one thing to bring it up on Big Footy, but has anyone made it to training and put any of these questions to Bevo? I'm genuinely curious. If I was down in Melbourne right now, I certainly would be asking questions directly to the club.

Heck, a Western Bulldog's Q&A night would work well right now.
There's no feel whatsoever for what fans are feeling. None.
It's the same malaise as politics: don't respond to the awkward questions or the concerns of the constituents. Just stick to the script and manage the message. Manage the message. Manage the message. Manage the message. Manage the message. Manage the message...

All of a sudden the major parties are scratching their heads and wondering why they are losing the rusted-on faithful. The same thing is happening here. Treat us like idiots. Manage the message, manage the message ... and then lose the faithful.

It's time for some honesty and candour. Don't patronise us with cliches and excuses. Come clean and accept some responsibility!
 
Theres a recording on Nuffies on AFL Pages atm of Rocket going spare at Big Wil. Go have a listen and laugh for the first time since Dunks was in the ruck on Sunday.
 
Aug 1, 2008
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I don’t know whether Bev can change but he damn well needs to and fast.

The selections are pigheaded - in the side and the positions on the ground.

And whether it’s the selections or something else, I don’t know, but the spirit and desire to win is also not there.

We lack both height, speed and aggression and we refuse to play the players who could at least help alleviate the glaring problem with height.

God we are soft
Aside from liberatore the team has no Aggression.

Also one of Campbell or Roughy has to be retained. At this rate English is going be cooked in a few weeks. It makes me think that Bev is not coaching for the now -and never intended to - which is a dangerous threat to the culture of the group. And will destroy it.

Either that or Bev’s lost his mind.

We are not a happy team.

It’s not only a problem with the lack of talks or a spare Ruck.

Where we are playing certain players is bewildering.

Last year McLean was providing near A grade mid-field results and as his youngish there was every reason to expect he had another 10% improvement - placing him amongst the elite midfielders in the comp. We are now playing him in a forward pocket. Of our midfielders he is the cleanest, the least likely to cause a turnover - he may not have the risk reward of Liber and Bont but he is less error prone.

Now I mention this because during this season we have been killed from turnovers - absolutely destroyed. Pretty sure the hawks score was like 99% from our turnovers.

So why is our cleanest mid sitting in a forward pocket whilst Wallis Gowers, Dunkley and others fumble, kick poorly, panic and make silly decisions causing repeated turnovers and handing goals to the opposition in the hope McLean might get one back.
It’s past insane.

But Bev is not going to change
He might get them up emotionally for the Freo game but I doubt it
We were lucky against the swans and hawks - and make no mistake Bev didn’t out coach Bucks - Bucks just gave us too much respect and didn’t want to take any risks - which flattered us .
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
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Don’t really get all the heat Daniel gets for being caught in the position he has multiple times. It’s because he works back harder than anyone else. He’s not the quickest bloke but works his ass off to get back, it’s a pity some of the faster blokes like jj didn’t work back as hard. Also the time he had to contest against McKay when they were the only two inside 50 was due to wood. He ran to the 50 with McKay then stood and ball watched as McKay doubled back and Daniel worked his ass off to get to him.

As for the players didn’t put in, you could say that quarter one against Gold Coast but not this week. Our number one strength all year has been our midfield dominance so this week Beveridge tinkers with it throwing new players in there trying to evolve Or fix what wasn’t broken. Libba and Macrae spending more time forward, no second ruckman, McLean staying forward as we experiment with gowers and Williams in the middle.

There’s only one person responsible for Sunday and that is Beveridge his selection and his dumb game day experiments. Play an extra kpd and fix the forward line that’s where he should be experimenting not in the bloody midfield

Is it all the other defenders fault though?

Looked like Daniel was actually playing that sweeper or roaming role down back. Also if there's a quick turnover after a Daniel kick in he'll naturally be deep in defence.

Now if i'm another dogs defender, the defence has a structure to hold.
Sometimes i might be covering a man or space as i'm supposed to and when i look back i see Daniel running back as the last defender...if i see that it's probably too late to switch and i stay where i am...not because im lazy but because it's my role and technically Daniel is covering a forward.

The problem is Daniel can get exposed due to height...but that's a liability that is an unfair burden on another defender to always have to cover. Do i stay on my man? Do i have to go double team Daniel's man because i have no faith in him in a 1v1?

The issue may be more around coached structures and just having Daniel playing as a defender will inevitably lead to some of these situations unfortunately...it's the risk the coaches are taking playing someone that short there.
 
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Brian Perrin

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Jul 6, 2011
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So Melbourne are soul searching in public

Norf are searching for a soul in public

Dogs - Business as usual?

Public airing of your processes doesn’t make it work and not admitting to abominable under performance doesn’t mean you aren’t hurting and searching for a solution - but it would be nice to know there is some level of introspection

Or maybe they would prefer to wait until we get belted next weekend as otherwise all the (theoretically) public soul searching this week would have been derided as ineffective (assuming anyone but us is paying attention)


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Westie1969

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Jul 2, 2012
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We pull our finger out and beat Freo over there and the talk will be about how we're back in the hunt for the top 8. Amazing what a difference a week makes.
 

Doggy

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May 20, 2006
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Is it all the other defenders fault though?

Looked like Daniel was actually playing that sweeper or roaming role down back. Also if there's a quick turnover after a Daniel kick in he'll naturally be deep in defence.

Now if i'm another dogs defender, the defence has a structure to hold.
Sometimes i might be covering a man or space as i'm supposed to and when i look back i see Daniel running back as the last defender...if i see that it's probably too late to switch and i stay where i am...not because im lazy but because it's my role and technically Daniel is covering a forward.

The problem is Daniel can get exposed due to height...but that's a liability that is an unfair burden on another defender to always have to cover. Do i stay on my man? Do i have to go double team Daniel's man because i have no faith in him in a 1v1?

The issue may be more around coached structures and just having Daniel playing as a defender will inevitably lead to some of these situations unfortunately...it's the risk the coaches are taking playing someone that short there.
Why are you still here..? It's been rubbed in enough
 

_M_16_

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Nov 26, 2009
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Why is everyone assuming we lost because of poor team selection? Think selection has anything to do with the flat footed starters in the midfield? The s**t skills? Not like the VFL is filled with elite ball users or smart players either. Clutching at straws with an excuse to feel a touch better about losing to a team "no one loses to", "yeah we were bad, but you know if we selected this and that player we'd have won cause carlton is poo.... maybe"

Nah, we were not gonna win no matter who was on the field, full stop. Their tall's are too quick for any of our lumbering ones AFL or VFL, midfield got smashed, and forward line has zero structure or genuine talls.
 

Doggy

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May 20, 2006
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Why is everyone assuming we lost because of poor team selection? Think selection has anything to do with the flat footed starters in the midfield? The s**t skills? Not like the VFL is filled with elite ball users or smart players either. Clutching at straws with an excuse to feel a touch better about losing to a team "no one loses to", "yeah we were bad, but you know if we selected this and that player we'd have won cause carlton is poo.... maybe"

Nah, we were not gonna win no matter who was on the field, full stop. Their tall's are too quick for any of our lumbering ones AFL or VFL, midfield got smashed, and forward line has zero structure or genuine talls.
It started at selection then got worse with coaching and skills..
 
Sep 7, 2015
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Why is everyone assuming we lost because of poor team selection? Think selection has anything to do with the flat footed starters in the midfield? The s**t skills? Not like the VFL is filled with elite ball users or smart players either. Clutching at straws with an excuse to feel a touch better about losing to a team "no one loses to", "yeah we were bad, but you know if we selected this and that player we'd have won cause carlton is poo.... maybe"

Nah, we were not gonna win no matter who was on the field, full stop. Their tall's are too quick for any of our lumbering ones AFL or VFL, midfield got smashed, and forward line has zero structure or genuine talls.

Spot on. Selection wouldn't have changed a thing. Spuds like Trengove, Young etc. weren't going to make a difference. Taller players don't make you better. Quality talls do but we don't have any of those. s**t talls just make you worse.
 
Dec 29, 2009
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Is it all the other defenders fault though?

Looked like Daniel was actually playing that sweeper or roaming role down back. Also if there's a quick turnover after a Daniel kick in he'll naturally be deep in defence.

Now if i'm another dogs defender, the defence has a structure to hold.
Sometimes i might be covering a man or space as i'm supposed to and when i look back i see Daniel running back as the last defender...if i see that it's probably too late to switch and i stay where i am...not because im lazy but because it's my role and technically Daniel is covering a forward.

The problem is Daniel can get exposed due to height...but that's a liability that is an unfair burden on another defender to always have to cover. Do i stay on my man? Do i have to go double team Daniel's man because i have no faith in him in a 1v1?

The issue may be more around coached structures and just having Daniel playing as a defender will inevitably lead to some of these situations unfortunately...it's the risk the coaches are taking playing someone that short there.

If you lose your man because your ball watching and don’t realise he’s drifting out the back as wood did multiple times then it’s his fault due to a lack of concentration.

I completely understand that Daniel plays the sweeping role and he works his ass off normally from the opposite side of the ground to get back.

The player I find as lazy in the dogs backline is jj watch how quick he is offensively yet when there is a turnover he is generally the last defender back. Now I honestly cannot remember JJ having a run down tackle, for a bloke of his speed he should be constantly catching opponents. I think it was 2015 when he actually used to push back and I can remember against the saints he used his pace to get back then intercepted a handball when he was 1 on 2 and turned it into a forward 50 entry. He doesn’t work that hard anymore
 
Sep 27, 2005
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Why is everyone assuming we lost because of poor team selection? Think selection has anything to do with the flat footed starters in the midfield? The s**t skills? Not like the VFL is filled with elite ball users or smart players either. Clutching at straws with an excuse to feel a touch better about losing to a team "no one loses to", "yeah we were bad, but you know if we selected this and that player we'd have won cause carlton is poo.... maybe"

Nah, we were not gonna win no matter who was on the field, full stop. Their tall's are too quick for any of our lumbering ones AFL or VFL, midfield got smashed, and forward line has zero structure or genuine talls.

It was sheer laziness combined with the s*** skills that played a large part in the loss.

7.15 is inexcusable. The lack of running and the ease with which Carlton moved it from back to forward was mind blowing.

Quick mids with elite skills. Come on down, name your price.
 

Johnny_Dogg4

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if im being honest, i dont believe we run hard enough both ways.
- foot speed issues on the spread
- we dont sprint much

im not sure if thats a coaching instruction not to run hard in an effort to conserve energy
 
Jun 5, 2013
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I think a loss like that is a culmination of poor performance across the board. Although it's certainly not purely down to selection or in game coaching, they played a significant part along with inexcusable skill errors and effort at the contest. Every member of the football department has to take some responsibility for the failures in their respective patch.
 

BRWB

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Oct 7, 2012
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Why is everyone assuming we lost because of poor team selection? Think selection has anything to do with the flat footed starters in the midfield? The s**t skills? Not like the VFL is filled with elite ball users or smart players either. Clutching at straws with an excuse to feel a touch better about losing to a team "no one loses to", "yeah we were bad, but you know if we selected this and that player we'd have won cause carlton is poo.... maybe"

Nah, we were not gonna win no matter who was on the field, full stop. Their tall's are too quick for any of our lumbering ones AFL or VFL, midfield got smashed, and forward line has zero structure or genuine talls.

Not sure you can attribute any sole factor to a loss. However you mention s**t skills and goal conversion. We have excellent ball users not picked guys like Lynch, Lipinski and Webb who are all very good. Bev has never given Webb a decent chance even before he was injured. Meanwhile one of the best clearance players in the league in Libba sits fwd and watches SPS have a picnic while team confidence shrivels just as Cartlon's grows.

At the other end spuds like Casboult look like a star as he towers over a pygmy defence and is so full of confidence that he slots them 45m out from the boundary. JT could have helped. Again up in our fwd line another inside mid played out of position in Dunkley looks embarrased to shoot for goal and can barely score from 30m out. Caleb continues to get outmarked on tbe last line of defense. Debutantes make basic mistakes as more experienced and in form VFL players look on. Everyone laughs as Dunkley is put into the ruck and refuses to contest (or worse is it a Bev instruction not to contest?)

Team mates watch, wince and slump.

English has no support and his main competitive advantage of getting into space and using his skills is lost due to fatigue from having to pretty much solely shoulder the ruck load. No kid his age is asked to do this in the ruck. Again JT could've helped. And it seems only a matter.of time until English gets injured.


Is it Bev being 'innovative' or stubborn and lacking in common sense?oo

Bev's refusal to select a competitive team on merit is actively hurting performance and morale and was a massive (but not sole) factor in losing to Carlton IMO.
 
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Mr. Walker

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The player I find as lazy in the dogs backline is jj watch how quick he is offensively yet when there is a turnover he is generally the last defender back. Now I honestly cannot remember JJ having a run down tackle, for a bloke of his speed he should be constantly catching opponents. I think it was 2015 when he actually used to push back and I can remember against the saints he used his pace to get back then intercepted a handball when he was 1 on 2 and turned it into a forward 50 entry. He doesn’t work that hard anymore

I was thinking the same thing. The difference between the pressure Varcoe put on our ball carriers in the Pies game and what JJ does is stark.
 

Mattdougie

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Can someone please give a summary of the performance of the two debutants. I would like to hear what people thought they brought to the game and what their key attributes are. thanks

Hayes was far from our worst player. Made some bad errors but had a crack.

Young. Well he tried but how the MC could even contemplate picking him before Young or Roberts is greying baffling coz he is miles off.
 
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