Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Sorbet Bliss]

I went over the propensity evidence documents again recently too.


"Telstra Living Witness Project" evidence
Summery of evidence;

"110: Between 1995 and 1997, several women in the Cottesloe and Claremont areas were offered lifts by a person driving a Telecom or Telstra vehicle or claiming to work for Telecom or Telstra."

Im not sure if anyone else has picked this up but there's no incident/s mentioned for the year 1997 in either of the austlii and wasc documents in the summery of evidence relating to the "Telstra Living Witness Project"
Both docs give a description of each separate incident that occurred, along with the years 1995/96 and approximate dates/months. Yet nothing about 1997 which naturally raises a few questions.
What incident/s within the "Telstra Living Witness Project " evidence do they have for the year 1997 and why has this information been omitted from these documents?

 

[tapdancingbear]

I went over the propensity evidence documents again recently too.


"Telstra Living Witness Project" evidence
Summery of evidence;

"110: Between 1995 and 1997, several women in the Cottesloe and Claremont areas were offered lifts by a person driving a Telecom or Telstra vehicle or claiming to work for Telecom or Telstra."

Im not sure if anyone else has picked this up but there's no incident/s mentioned for the year 1997 in either of the austlii and wasc documents in the summery of evidence relating to the "Telstra Living Witness Project"
Both docs give a description of each separate incident that occurred, along with the years 1995/96 and approximate dates/months. Yet nothing about 1997 which naturally raises a few questions.
What incident/s within the "Telstra Living Witness Project " evidence do they have for the year 1997 and why has this information been omitted from these documents?

One thing I do not understand , why would someone saying they worked for Telstra make it acceptable to get a lift .... do people think Safety when they think Telstra ?

 

[Kurve]

One thing I do not understand , why would someone saying they worked for Telstra make it acceptable to get a lift .... do people think Safety when they think Telstra ?

If you don't mind me butting in, I think they do or did. These guys were in and out of our houses fixing our phones, there would naturally be an expectation that the government owned and operated company employees were trustworthy but ... if BRE suggested or implied that he was on the job at the time or on his way to the next one, what could go wrong in this government vehicle when he's supposed to be checking in somewhere else in ten minutes?

 

[Kurve]

There was something else I noticed Carmel raised, I didn't say anything prior because imagination might go to a very dark place but I could be wrong. Carmel was waiting for the factory specifications of the interior of the vehicle/s involved, I think the suggestion was that BRE had modified.

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

[QUOTE="
Now as I understand it these friends were down south? Silver Sands or something like that? (is that correct) so going north is an interesting decision.

Do I think its because of the position of Sothiris sun in the moon phase? No I dont. I look for more base reasons.

He could have simply forgotten in the heat of the moment his plans to be with friends. Going north may have been a deliberate and calculated move to put the police off track . Or , as suggested by others, he knew of surveillance tech pointing south , and went north instead.[/QUOTE]

I still think all the victims were to be disposed of in the Wellard area. At the time the freeway only went down to Thomas Rd. Any one who travelled to Mandurah on a regular basis would soon get to know all the short cuts and roads and alternate them as it was a boring run.

Once out of the backroads Golden Bay then Singleton, Madora, then Silver sands and Meadow Springs then into Mandurah.

Jane was found by a pure fluke if the lilies hadn't been taller where her body lay the woman wouldn't have gone over to pick them. As she had been found the disposal site was now unsafe so Ciara had to be placed in a different area.

 

[Kurve]

Jane was found by a pure fluke if the lilies hadn't been taller where her body lay the woman wouldn't have gone over to pick them. As she had been found the disposal site was now unsafe so Ciara had to be placed in a different area.

You think Sarah is near where Jane was? I suspect she is west and he fanned them out but lack confidence just a theory. You have a good point though imo, he put in more distance away from anchor point of work (residence?)Something about Ciara spooked him, I think he nearly got caught.

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

You think Sarah is near where Jane was? I suspect she is west and he fanned them out but lack confidence just a theory. You have a good point though imo, he put in more distance away from anchor point of work (residence?)Something about Ciara spooked him, I think he nearly got caught.

The alleged perp had been travelling to Madora and Mandurah area since he was a boy to recent times. His base area was still Huntingdale, his hunting area appears to have been close to the Claremont night club area, after all if you cast your net in
a fish pond often enough your likely to catch something.

 

[FTY1]

[QUOTE="
Now as I understand it these friends were down south? Silver Sands or something like that? (is that correct) so going north is an interesting decision.

Do I think its because of the position of Sothiris sun in the moon phase? No I dont. I look for more base reasons.

He could have simply forgotten in the heat of the moment his plans to be with friends. Going north may have been a deliberate and calculated move to put the police off track . Or , as suggested by others, he knew of surveillance tech pointing south , and went north instead.

I still think all the victims were to be disposed of in the Wellard area. At the time the freeway only went down to Thomas Rd. Any one who travelled to Mandurah on a regular basis would soon get to know all the short cuts and roads and alternate them as it was a boring run.

Once out of the backroads Golden Bay then Singleton, Madora, then Silver sands and Meadow Springs then into Mandurah.

Jane was found by a pure fluke if the lilies hadn't been taller where her body lay the woman wouldn't have gone over to pick them. As she had been found the disposal site was now unsafe so Ciara had to be placed in a different area.[/QUOTE]

I agree about pure fluke Jane's body being found. They did do several searches of the area at that time looking for Sarah. I don't know how extensive they were. I know there was at least one aerial search. The police thought the same as you at the time.

 

[browncow]

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremo...ws-cloud-over-trial-start-date-ng-b881177802z

A “significant” piece of new evidence has come to light that could “potentially imperil” the planned start date of the Claremont serial killings trial.

At a case management hearing in the Supreme Court this morning, prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo said she had to be careful about what she said about the item as not to compromise further inquiries.

However, as Bradley Robert Edwards listened intently from the dock, she did reveal the item was a piece of clothing obtained from a Telstra worker from the 1990s.

 

[craigos]

Maybe the accused knew their birth dates through being friends with them on myspace

 

[sprockets]

https://thewest.com.au/news/claremo...ws-cloud-over-trial-start-date-ng-b881177802z

A “significant” piece of new evidence has come to light that could “potentially imperil” the planned start date of the Claremont serial killings trial.

At a case management hearing in the Supreme Court this morning, prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo said she had to be careful about what she said about the item as not to compromise further inquiries.

However, as Bradley Robert Edwards listened intently from the dock, she did reveal the item was a piece of clothing obtained from a Telstra worker from the 1990s.

Interesting. DNA on the clothing no doubt, and not his.

 

[Sorbet Bliss]

Interesting. DNA on the clothing no doubt, and not his.

I was wondering if it was more to do with the other fibres found on the girls?
Doesn't sound as "significant" as DNA would be but explains why they've employed a fibre expert.

 

[BonzaRam]

"Asked by Justice Stephen Hall if the item was linked to Mr Edwards – who worked for Telstra at the time — Ms Barbagallo said it was “utilised by technicians at that time”. "

Clothing utilised by Telstra Technicians would imply some sort of uniform or safety clothing perhaps. Possibly a piece of clothing that was used by anyone who needed it that was stored at an exchange, rather than a personal piece of clothing, like a pair of gloves or safety helmet etc.

The comments are a too vague to speculate on really.

 

[tapdancingbear]

"Asked by Justice Stephen Hall if the item was linked to Mr Edwards – who worked for Telstra at the time — Ms Barbagallo said it was “utilised by technicians at that time”. "

Clothing utilised by Telstra Technicians would imply some sort of uniform or safety clothing perhaps. Possibly a piece of clothing that was used by anyone who needed it that was stored at an exchange, rather than a personal piece of clothing, like a pair of gloves or safety helmet etc.

The comments are a too vague to speculate on really.

Ive been trying to think what clothing may be shared , wet weather gear maybe , Dust Coats , Safety Helmets as you say ...I would not use community gloves , but that's me

Im not sure how to read this , have they had the clothing from another employee since the 90s … or has the employee had it since the 90s

And if the clothing links to a crime seen wouldn't that link the person in possession of the clothing to the crime scene , is someone else now involved ?

 

[Willow weeps]

Hard to tell but seeing BRE's lawyer only got a call about it recently & he now wants his own testing to be done too, imo means it could very well be BRE undoing. If you remember it was BRE team that wanted so much more time before it hit the court but now it's Carmel's team needing extra time. I'm hoping it will work for the prosecution & we finally see this case solved

 

[browncow]

Maybe there have some fibres found on the bodies that are not the ‘car fibres’ which they think may match fibres from this Telstra piece of clothing/equipment.

Would definitely narrow everything down even further than just the correct type of car.

 

[sprockets]

It could be fibres but I doubt it. When I was a technician, which was back when these crimes were being committed, the clothing we wore, which was and probably still is used, was generally tightly woven cotton/synthetic (think business shirts and suits) that wouldn't shed much in the way of fibres. Having said that, it could be fibres from one of the victims clothing.

 

[tapdancingbear]

It could be fibres but I doubt it. When I was a technician, which was back when these crimes were being committed, the clothing we wore, which was and probably still is used, was generally tightly woven cotton/synthetic (think business shirts and suits) that wouldn't shed much in the way of fibres. Having said that, it could be fibres from one of the victims clothing.

Did the techs use the Bluey jackets … ive had one for years from an op shop , that had Telstra sewn above the pocket … Blue wool

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Did the techs use the Bluey jackets … ive had one for years from an op shop , that had Telstra sewn above the pocket … Blue wool

Naughty Op Shop for selling it to you. Big no no selling uniforms as people can impersonate staff and do all sorts of things because people trust someone in uniform. Where have I heard that before?

 

[sprockets]

Did the techs use the Bluey jackets … ive had one for years from an op shop , that had Telstra sewn above the pocket … Blue wool

They may have, although I dunno how common they were back then. They probably would have used similar when working outside. I only worked inside and hardly wore anything other than a short sleeved shirt, even in winter.

 

[tapdancingbear]

They may have, although I dunno how common they were back then. They probably would have used similar when working outside. I only worked inside and hardly wore anything other than a short sleeved shirt, even in winter.

Ok ,thank you , definitely for outdoors … they would be hard to work in actually … ive had this one for over 20 years but they may have been for specific jobs

 

[Coastie19]

Glad I hadn't bought my ticket to Perth just yet to go and watch the trial with the possible delay

 

[BonzaRam]

"Im not sure how to read this , have they had the clothing from another employee since the 90s … or has the employee had it since the 90s "

If they had the item since the 90's it would have been tested along with the other items they had. I do find it odd for it show up all of sudden now though.



"It could be fibres but I doubt it. "

"The court was told the item was being analysed so that fibres from the piece of clothing could be compared with other fibres in evidence, and Ms Barbagallo foreshadowed a report may not be complete until mid to late June. "

 

[Melsy]

It seems the Cottesloe Telephone Exchange was closed in 1985 and was sold off to become a community centre. Info below found on pages 9 and 10, don't know if this is of any use to you Shellyg? But looks to me that it was a very run down place prior to 2000 revamp so maybe not a place BRE could shower and sleep in? Unless there was another more modern Telephone Exchange there in Cottesloe in 1990s? (Bolded by me)

"In 1985, Cottesloe Post Office and Telephone Exchange (fmr) was transferred to the Town of Cottesloe and after internal modifications undertaken by architects Scanlon and Associates became a community centre.51 The functions of the community centre included the major Home and Community Care programme (HACC) for the Towns of Claremont, Mosman Park, Cottesloe and the Shire of Peppermint Grove."

"In 1997, funds were allocated for extensions to Cottesloe Post Office and Telephone Exchange (fmr) to increase the level of usage of the place. Architects, Considine and Griffiths were commissioned to design an extension to Cottesloe Post Office and Telephone Exchange (fmr) sympathetic to the original structure. The extension included one new room and the alteration of the interior layouts. In January 2000, plans for the additions were submitted to the Development Committee of the Heritage Council and the proposed works were found to be acceptable. Construction of the extension occurred in mid 2000. Minor additional changes to the garage entrance were undertaken at this time.53"

http://inherit.stateheritage.wa.gov.au/Admin/api/file/aabfd37b-f1c6-be4a-8d1f-77b7054bca46

Is Congdon st telephone exchange Cottesloe exchange though?
Cottesloe Exchange

1 Congdon St, Cottesloe WA 6011

https://g.co/kgs/8AfJTP

 

[Beatnicked]

It seems the Cottesloe Telephone Exchange was closed in 1985 and was sold off to become a community centre. Info below found on pages 9 and 10, don't know if this is of any use to you Shellyg? But looks to me that it was a very run down place prior to 2000 revamp so maybe not a place BRE could shower and sleep in? Unless there was another more modern Telephone Exchange there in Cottesloe in 1990s? (Bolded by me)

"In 1985, Cottesloe Post Office and Telephone Exchange (fmr) was transferred to the Town of Cottesloe and after internal modifications undertaken by architects Scanlon and Associates became a community centre.51 The functions of the community centre included the major Home and Community Care programme (HACC) for the Towns of Claremont, Mosman Park, Cottesloe and the Shire of Peppermint Grove."

"In 1997, funds were allocated for extensions to Cottesloe Post Office and Telephone Exchange (fmr) to increase the level of usage of the place. Architects, Considine and Griffiths were commissioned to design an extension to Cottesloe Post Office and Telephone Exchange (fmr) sympathetic to the original structure. The extension included one new room and the alteration of the interior layouts. In January 2000, plans for the additions were submitted to the Development Committee of the Heritage Council and the proposed works were found to be acceptable. Construction of the extension occurred in mid 2000. Minor additional changes to the garage entrance were undertaken at this time.53"

http://inherit.stateheritage.wa.gov.au/Admin/api/file/aabfd37b-f1c6-be4a-8d1f-77b7054bca46

I believe this is a different building to the exchange at Congdon Street. The one in the link is in Forrest Street.