Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

Oct 2, 2007
42,473
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Perth
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For all the talk of kids, Carlton’s opposition on Sunday will be younger and less experienced

It's an example of how stats can lie.

Our senior players (aged 28+) are Levi Casboult, Matt Lobbe, Dale Tomas, Ed Curnow, Marc Murphy, Kade Simpson, Matthew Kruezer and Liam Jones.

All of whom barring Jones (the youngest and the only 28 year old) will be gone in 2 years. That's around 1200 games lost. We'll actually get younger over the next few years, and more inexperienced.

Not exactly an impressive list of vets is it? It's basically a skeleton crew of players propping up the kids. Your senior players will all have premiership medals at home.

To highlight our problems, in the next bracket (23-27 year olds) we have: Fasolo, Newman, Docherty, Plowman, Phillips, McGovern, Cripps, McGovern and Lang.

Again, barring Cripps and Docherty (and he's been missing for a while with his second knee) and on a level below them McGovern and Plowman, not exactly a standout group of mid aged players is it?

It's in the 18-22 year old bracket where the bulk of our talent sits: Walsh, Dow, SPS, Weitering, Marchbank, Curnow, Kennedy, Cuningham, McKay, Setterfield, MacReadie, Fisher, Williamson, Obrien, Stocker.

You're not going to win too many games when your senior (23+ year old players) are lacking in quality like that list is, and you're dependent on over a dozen kids each week (supported by some mediocre vets) to get you over the line.

It's a list reflective of a side that has focused extensively on the draft for a few years, and it shows.

We need a few more years development into that 18-22 age bracket, while also attracting a few quality Free agents and trades in that 23-27 year old age bracket over the next year or two.
 
For all the talk of kids, Carlton’s opposition on Sunday will be younger and less experienced

"For all the talk of kids".

It's completely irrelevant to this trade, but I always enjoy these posts.

Shows how many just look at the statistics and fail to put them into any sort of context before throwing them out there.

If you look at the ages this is correct but only by the most immaterial of numbers -

WB - 23.41
Carlton - 24

And yet we'll have significantly more players out there on the day aged 21 or younger - 9 vs 6.

It'd be fair to say our average age numbers are inflated by the outlier Simpson, who at 34 is 3 years older than anyone else out on the park.

With regards to games, we do have the experience edge, but again I'd suggest that number is grossly inflated by Simpson. With 311 he has over 50 more than anyone else out there.

We've got fewer players who have played 100 games (8 vs 6) and more who have played 50 or fewer, 12 vs 9. Over half our side have played fewer than 50 games of AFL football.

But yeah. You feel free to keep using stats without putting in even the slightest of effort to understand them or put them into context.
 
Dec 7, 2014
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"For all the talk of kids".

It's completely irrelevant to this trade, but I always enjoy these posts.

Shows how many just look at the statistics and fail to put them into any sort of context before throwing them out there.

If you look at the ages this is correct but only by the most immaterial of numbers -

WB - 23.41
Carlton - 24

And yet we'll have significantly more players out there on the day aged 21 or younger - 9 vs 6.

It'd be fair to say our average age numbers are inflated by the outlier Simpson, who at 34 is 3 years older than anyone else out on the park.

With regards to games, we do have the experience edge, but again I'd suggest that number is grossly inflated by Simpson. With 311 he has over 50 more than anyone else out there.

We've got fewer players who have played 100 games (8 vs 6) and more who have played 50 or fewer, 12 vs 9. Over half our side have played fewer than 50 games of AFL football.

But yeah. You feel free to keep using stats without putting in even the slightest of effort to understand them or put them into context.
Kinda surprised this even needed to be said.

Do people honestly cite stats without knowing what they mean or convey? Crazy.
 

Rich01

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
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Sorry, BF tilts one. Point remains though, is it concerning that a rookie and a 3rd rounder(?) are getting games ahead of your first pick?

I'd be concerned.
Not me. RCD is a boom or bust pick at 20. We didn’t pony up a top pick for him. Although he did have more possies in the vfl than Stocker did last week.

Ross is the safe pick you take in the 40s.

But it’s great for the blues as SOS rated Stocker 6 in his draft and for that to come off, he will end up a super player. As I said, can’t wait for him to play.

Stacks great though. We had the five youngest players on the ground tonight and they all did well.

Our green shoots are all performing admirably.
 

Mr_Plow

That name again...
May 18, 2008
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Not me. RCD is a boom or bust pick at 20. We didn’t pony up a top pick for him. Although he did have more possies in the vfl than Stocker did last week.

Ross is the safe pick you take in the 40s.

But it’s great for the blues as SOS rated Stocker 6 in his draft and for that to come off, he will end up a super player. As I said, can’t wait for him to play.

Stacks great though. We had the five youngest players on the ground tonight and they all did well.

Our green shoots are all performing admirably.

Stack is indeed great, would love him on our list.

Don't care much for Ross, can find the football but no real point of difference beyond that. Not enough tricks to be a long-term effective midfielder, not damaging enough with the football, not quick, doesn't have great agility/lateral movement and is not evasive.

Fine for pick 40 but not a real miss in the draft. A Jack Graham type player that will soon be overtaken by the likes of RCD.

Stocker projects well with beautiful footskills on both sides of the body, great acceleration and lateral movement as well as being strong overhead with known contested ball winning ability.

Give me Stack, though. He has talent.

Hope your green shoots keep it up. You'll need it.
 

Zoom

Carefree
Dec 16, 2018
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Stack is indeed great, would love him on our list.

Don't care much for Ross, can find the football but no real point of difference beyond that. Not enough tricks to be a long-term effective midfielder, not damaging enough with the football, not quick, doesn't have great agility/lateral movement and is not evasive.
You’re wrong. Ross tested well for speed and agility at the State Combine and was widely lauded for his ability to burst from stoppages. If you watched him in u18s, you would know he has fantastic acceleration and evasiveness for a guy of his size. You also praise Stocker for his contested ball winning ability, Ross has shown he can win a hard ball and dispose it effectively whilst being tackled and/or under pressure. His composure and cleanliness in traffic is already at high level for AFL standard. Ross is also a fantastic mark of the football, as evidenced by his game-saving contested mark in the dying minutes of the Port Adelaide match. Basically, everything you said Stocker has, Ross has plus more. Ross is also highly incomparable to Graham. He’s taller, faster, stronger, cleaner, more composed, finds more of it and is a better mark.

I liked his game tonight. Went head to head with one of the best starting midfielders in the competition (Viney, Brayshaw and Oliver) whilst the best ruckman in the competition was giving them first use and he matched them all night. He reminds me of Dayne Beams. A superb player.
 
Dec 28, 2007
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Stack is indeed great, would love him on our list.

Don't care much for Ross, can find the football but no real point of difference beyond that. Not enough tricks to be a long-term effective midfielder, not damaging enough with the football, not quick, doesn't have great agility/lateral movement and is not evasive.

Fine for pick 40 but not a real miss in the draft. A Jack Graham type player that will soon be overtaken by the likes of RCD.

Stocker projects well with beautiful footskills on both sides of the body, great acceleration and lateral movement as well as being strong overhead with known contested ball winning ability.

Give me Stack, though. He has talent.

Hope your green shoots keep it up. You'll need it.


28 possessions and 3 tackles 7 contested poss,going at 71% with 81% game time in his 3rd game against a midfield that has Gawn tapping it down to Brayshaw,Viney,Harmes,Oliver. also a sub 3 sec 20mtr time and impressive 3klm time during the pre season. already averaging 23.3 poss 8 contested and 3.3 tackles.

Jack Ross is also a september birth date which make him bottom age
 
Oct 6, 2013
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Can’t wait to see Stocker.
SOS rated him well ahead of Jack Ross and Syd Stack so cant wait to see him play.
Each team had at least 4 picks combined throughout the ND and RD so every team rated an extensive list ahead of Stack. It’s like me pumping Will Golds because he was rated above Stack.
 

Love the Drake

Premiership Player
Nov 22, 2013
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Hmmm big Richmond representation on this board. No doubt because we blindsided them when SOS took him at 19 and they were going to take him at 20. For what it’s worth I don’t give a stuff about Richmond players;talk about them on your own board.

Really liking how Carlton finally have the time to develop players in the 2’s rather than rushing them in when not ready.

Liam will be well prepared when selected.
 

Mr_Plow

That name again...
May 18, 2008
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Hmmm big Richmond representation on this board. No doubt because we blindsided them when SOS took him at 19 and they were going to take him at 20. For what it’s worth I don’t give a stuff about Richmond players;talk about them on your own board.

Really liking how Carlton finally have the time to develop players in the 2’s rather than rushing them in when not ready.

Liam will be well prepared when selected.

Yep, we've got no shortage of talent on the list developing. Should be a great 10-15 years of football during the Walsh era.
 
Jun 4, 2016
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Stack is indeed great, would love him on our list.

Don't care much for Ross, can find the football but no real point of difference beyond that. Not enough tricks to be a long-term effective midfielder, not damaging enough with the football, not quick, doesn't have great agility/lateral movement and is not evasive.

Fine for pick 40 but not a real miss in the draft. A Jack Graham type player that will soon be overtaken by the likes of RCD.

Stocker projects well with beautiful footskills on both sides of the body, great acceleration and lateral movement as well as being strong overhead with known contested ball winning ability.

Give me Stack, though. He has talent.

Hope your green shoots keep it up. You'll need it.
Ross is another miles.
 

Prochard123

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 28, 2014
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Ross is another miles.
To be fair he's actually extremely similar to Seb in terms of playstyle. Accumulator, both balanced inside and out, strong around contests, but both are not match-winners and probably won't ever be.

Problem with these players is that if different areas of their game don't exceed a certain threshold, they become a liability both as an inside mid or outside mid. But once they reach Pendlebury/Kelly/Macrae level they become absolute A graders.

I liked what I saw from Ross's game against Melbourne, moving forward reckon he should focus more on his clearance work. In the long-run Jack Ross does look quite promising.
 
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