Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Coastie19]

When I was growing up I
always thought it was a modified taxi (magnetic lights) with some random weirdo, not a rogue driver. But never would have thought it was potentials in current discussions with the uniforms etc. and ability to make with excuses such as working nearby if pulled up anywhere

 

[BonzaRam]

Commodore vehicle has Telstra fibres. Stop the press.

The way it read was these materials were only just presented. I dont see it as the Commodore fibres or associated with the Commodore.

That is not what i said.

________

An early comment by someone else

"Im not sure how to read this , have they had the clothing from another employee since the 90s … or has the employee had it since the 90s "

My reply

If they had the item since the 90's it would have been tested along with the other items they had. I do find it odd for it show up all of sudden now though.


Your comment

While this is an interesting breakthrough and may change the trial, reading the above , they had these miscellaneous fibres all this time and never connected them to any material? I understand forensics has come a long way but even late 90s and early 2000s you would understand fibre evidence.

My reply

They retested for fibres in 2016 when they seized the Commodore from it's then owner.

Meaning fibre analysis has been done before on what they already they had stored in evidence, 2016is the last known time an analysis was done that i know of.

Your reply

Commodore vehicle has Telstra fibres. Stop the press.

The way it read was these materials were only just presented. I dont see it as the Commodore fibres or associated with the Commodore.


Conclusion:

Looks like we are in agreement, it is new material not something that has been held in evidence lockers since the 90s.

Start the press again...

 

[Sorbet Bliss]

Here's a couple of screen shots taken from several 1990's Telecom Australia TV commercials of Telecom workers in various rolls wearing uniforms suited to job position.

Bright orange and yellow high visibility vests, bright orange overalls, white protective telecom logo'd helmets and khaki shirts and shorts feature through out.

The fast motion and swish pan camera movements and shots, plus the age of the adds made it difficult to capture clear pics so they're not the best quality but they do give the general idea of what was being worn back then.

In regards to the possibility of names being embroidered or printed on the uniform shirts from what I can see, the overalls and khaki shirts do appear to have a white rectangular customised telecom logo embroidered badge/patch on them.
In the first image attached, taken from a 1995 telecom Australia tv commercial (pretty sure this actor is in character of an installation technician) you can see the logo patch/badge on the right above pocket and what looks like a photo ID card on the left of his khaki shirt.




Remaining screen shots can all be found on YouTube.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Here's a couple of screen shots taken from several 1990's Telecom Australia TV commercials of Telecom workers in various rolls wearing uniforms suited to job position.

Bright orange and yellow high visibility vests, bright orange overalls, white protective telecom logo'd helmets and khaki shirts and shorts feature through out.

The fast motion and swish pan camera movements and shots, plus the age of the adds made it difficult to capture clear pics so they're not the best quality but they do give the general idea of what was being worn back then.

In regards to the possibility of names being embroidered or printed on the uniform shirts from what I can see, the overalls and khaki shirts do appear to have a white rectangular customised telecom logo embroidered badge/patch on them.
In the first image attached, taken from a 1995 telecom Australia tv commercial (pretty sure this actor is in character of an installation technician) you can see the logo patch/badge on the right above pocket and what looks like a photo ID card on the left of his khaki shirt.


View attachment 661897View attachment 661898

Remaining screen shots can all be found on YouTube.
View attachment 661903View attachment 661905View attachment 661906View attachment 661904View attachment 661901

Fabulous research SorbetBliss! "Is your Dad still with Telecom?", thought that was a bit of a "coincidence"? And the weird look from the woman as she asks.

 

[BonzaRam]

Something to consider, excluding some Independent Taxis, Taxi drivers had uniforms by mid 1996 in Perth.

Uniforms for taxi drivers to be introduced
Thursday, 30 November 1995

November 30, 1995

Most Perth taxi drivers will be wearing uniforms by the middle of next year.

Transport Minister Eric Charlton said Swan Taxis Co-operative had agreed to a request from the Taxi Industry Board to introduce driver uniforms as soon as possible.

Swan decided all new drivers would be obliged to wear uniforms from December 1 and that all drivers would comply by June 30 next year.

Mr Charlton said the voluntary adoption of uniforms by the company indicated a commitment to lift its standard of presentation in an overall campaign to improve the image of Perth’s taxi services.

“The wearing of uniforms is only one of a range of innovations to raise taxi standards, with plans in place to enhance driver training in relation to service levels, road rules and street familiarity," he said.

“Proposals are also under review to lift the general presentation of taxis with the view to introducing stricter rules on the quality of vehicles on the road.”

Mr Charlton said the Government had made it quite clear to the industry that standards must be refined in line with customer expectations.

“Future taxi fare increases will depend entirely on hard evidence that the industry has lifted its universal standards and improved its cost operating structures," he said.

“The adoption of driver uniforms is a significant step in that direction and one which will be applauded by all taxi users."

Taxi Industry Board Chairman Len Hitchen said raising service standards was important not only for Perth customers, but critical to the impressions of visitors to the city.

Mr Hitchen said with big numbers of tourists arriving in Perth, their first experience of Western Australia was usually a taxi ride.

“If they encounter a well-presented, uniformed driver who is helpful and courteous and knows his/her way around the metropolitan area, the visitors’ opinions of Perth will be favourable and create an increased demand and usage of taxis," he said.

Media contact: Ian Hasleby 321 7333 / Pager: 480 9999 (94065)

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....iforms-for-taxi-drivers-to-be-introduced.aspx

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Something to consider, excluding Independent Taxis, Taxi drivers had uniforms by mid 1996 in Perth.

Uniforms for taxi drivers to be introduced
Thursday, 30 November 1995

November 30, 1995

Most Perth taxi drivers will be wearing uniforms by the middle of next year.

Transport Minister Eric Charlton said Swan Taxis Co-operative had agreed to a request from the Taxi Industry Board to introduce driver uniforms as soon as possible.

Swan decided all new drivers would be obliged to wear uniforms from December 1 and that all drivers would comply by June 30 next year.

Mr Charlton said the voluntary adoption of uniforms by the company indicated a commitment to lift its standard of presentation in an overall campaign to improve the image of Perth’s taxi services.

“The wearing of uniforms is only one of a range of innovations to raise taxi standards, with plans in place to enhance driver training in relation to service levels, road rules and street familiarity," he said.

“Proposals are also under review to lift the general presentation of taxis with the view to introducing stricter rules on the quality of vehicles on the road.”

Mr Charlton said the Government had made it quite clear to the industry that standards must be refined in line with customer expectations.

“Future taxi fare increases will depend entirely on hard evidence that the industry has lifted its universal standards and improved its cost operating structures," he said.

“The adoption of driver uniforms is a significant step in that direction and one which will be applauded by all taxi users."

Taxi Industry Board Chairman Len Hitchen said raising service standards was important not only for Perth customers, but critical to the impressions of visitors to the city.

Mr Hitchen said with big numbers of tourists arriving in Perth, their first experience of Western Australia was usually a taxi ride.

“If they encounter a well-presented, uniformed driver who is helpful and courteous and knows his/her way around the metropolitan area, the visitors’ opinions of Perth will be favourable and create an increased demand and usage of taxis," he said.

Media contact: Ian Hasleby 321 7333 / Pager: 480 9999 (94065)

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov....iforms-for-taxi-drivers-to-be-introduced.aspx

Think there were still a lot of drivers not willing to "dress up" to drive a cab. My Dad drove a cab years before and always wore a smart business shirt and trousers. He was appalled at how badly drivers dressed to greet the public, that was in the early 70s. But from the taxis I've been in lately, the dress standard isn't much better, especially with drivers at night. Don't think there was much checking going on around CSK time to see if drivers were conforming to wearing uniforms, and I think the victims would have been that glad to see a car stop with a friendly face and ANY sort of uniform at that time of night, they would have not thought it through or questioned much, just "oh what a relief!"

 

[Melsy]

Is there a chance he could have patched into the taxi number with his knowledge of the phone lines, then when the victim's have called and left their names he could have driven straight there in his car which was modified or looked similar and quoted their name/s when he turned up from around the corner. Or is this not possible?

Or just lurking in his car with the uniform on or dressed up as a woman (which he likes) and offered the ride....

He could have often listened to the taxi exchange
In the day although Im not sure when the taxis ditched two way could have scanner too.

 

[Melsy]

Hi Coastie19, all of the above have been discussed at great length on another website. My preference is just lurking, with uniform in car that looks like a taxi, on dark streets, women desperate to get home, bit scared alone, tired, shoes hurting (this is a very real consideration as feet get sore in heels, just want to get home and put your feet up, all ladies reading this will agree I'm pretty sure)...ah, there's a/the taxi, lean in, nice smiling man, uniform, even shows his name on shirt/jacket, must be legit, yep, get in, safe, only short trip to get home....

Bluies were popular with taxi drivers also. Telstra is government dept. At the time people assumed govt employees were security vetted.

 

[ExitStrategy]

Seriously Badge666, you can’t be that much of a genius - I can name at least 5 techs my dad regularly did nightshift with throughout the 90s.

 

[ExitStrategy]

Has anyone considered the use of the telstra pits as part of the “blitz attack”?
BRE could interfere with the public payphone causing the girls to venture further away from the crowd to find a working phone. He then utilises the Telstra pits to hide and wait for them to walk past, either grabbing them or causing them to fall into the pit?

 

[BFew]

Has anyone considered the use of the telstra pits as part of the “blitz attack”?
BRE could interfere with the public payphone causing the girls to venture further away from the crowd to find a working phone. He then utilises the Telstra pits to hide and wait for them to walk past, either grabbing them or causing them to fall into the pit?

More likely he would be hiding up a lamp post or in a tree, where he could see them coming more easily than if in a pit.

 

[Melsy]

Sounds like they have matching fibres pulled from the victims or fibres from the victims on the clothing.
Wouldnt you freak if you were the telstra employee given the item used in murder.

"She said the clothing was being examined by fibre experts and will be compared with other fibres that will be admitted in evidence in the trial."

https://www.9news.com.au/national/c...ustralia/8592b63f-8a94-44ed-865b-83b796c2bdcc

 

[Beatnicked]

FFS can this pathetic numbers crapbe moved to another thread to stop clogging up this one?

It's not pathetic numbers crap. It's factual data that cannot be cast aside. If you and others cannot understand or comprehend how the accused may have used dates to calculate his 'horrendous game plan' to include every detail. The facts cannot be ignored. The fact that the disposal site degrees of Jane and Ciara add up to Ciara's birthdate cannot be ignored.

The fact that the birthdate of the accused and all three Claremont victims are connected to the 1st victim's birthdate cannot be ignored as the facts reveal the abductions were not opportunistic and shows the accused likely knew intimate details of each victim prior to their alleged abductions.

The night each young lady was abducted was not their 1st night attending the Claremont or Cottesloe venues. Note both Sarah and Jane were at the OBH in Cottesloe. The accused is alleged to have mentioned Cottesloe to one of the Telstra living witnesses and there are witnesses that place a Telstra vehicle cruising the streets adjacent to the OBH in 1996/1997 period.


It should be kept in mind Sarah lived in South Perth and Ciara actually lived in South Perth prior to her departure overseas in the 1st quarter of 1996. Ciara shared the flat with a female friend.

 

[Beatnicked]

Sounds like they have matching fibres pulled from the victims or fibres from the victims on the clothing.
Wouldnt you freak if you were the telstra employee given the item used in murder.

"She said the clothing was being examined by fibre experts and will be compared with other fibres that will be admitted in evidence in the trial."

https://www.9news.com.au/national/c...ustralia/8592b63f-8a94-44ed-865b-83b796c2bdcc

There were 40 plus fibres found on Jane's remains. It is highly possible at least one of these fibres is a match to a clothing item issued to Telstra technicians at the time and there is a record such clothing item was also issued to the accused.

I am curious as to whether the accused requested a further supply of certain clothing items to replace damaged or biologically contaminated items after each of the Claremont ladies' abductions.

I get the impression the accused was given access to one vehicle for business and private use at particular times? Not always the same vehicle.

 

[BFew]

pathetic numbers crap

Just a few relevant questions that came to mind whilst I recalling an Anzac Day fruit salad I was eating yesterday, that contained both dates and figs

Are you expecting that the prosecution evidence will be based on propensity, circumstantial and chronological facts?
If so, I wonder what evidence the prosecution has on the accused's propensity with using dates to commit crimes.

Assuming you are correct, and not smarter than the prosecution team/WAPOL, are you aware of any local academic experts that specialise in dates? Or are we more likely to see a junior high school maths teacher called to provide evidence as a subject matter expert?

 

[Beatnicked]

Just a few relevant questions that came to mind whilst I recalling an Anzac Day fruit salad I was eating yesterday, that contained both dates and figs

Are you expecting that the prosecution evidence will be based on propensity, circumstantial and chronological facts?
If so, I wonder what evidence the prosecution has on the accused's propensity with using dates to commit crimes.

Assuming you are correct, and not smarter than the prosecution team/WAPOL, are you aware of any local academic experts that specialise in dates? Or are we more likely to see a junior high school maths teacher called to provide evidence as a subject matter expert?

You don't have to be an expert to crunch dates and discover relevance.

There is a case in the UK that was solved by relevance to dates that was discovered in a cold case review. I think It more likely the subject of forensic psychology and psychiatry experts that would see the relevance of the accused's thought processes and patterns and a relevant diagnosis of psychopathy and not insanity of the accused.

Perhaps you should do some factual discoveries and calculations yourself instead of making irrelevant vacuous comments.

Edit to add. The UK case offenders were extradited from Australia.

BTW it's not a matter of being smarter than anyone or more intelligent. It is about studying minutae detail and having the ability to see connections. Police investigators follow procedures that are set out and at times all of their training and experience cannot crack a case. Not one investigator works on a complete case. They work a case in sections. Investigators sitting side by side may be looking at totally different bits of an investigation. Sometimes it is something extraordinary that helps put a puzzle together.

 

[Beatnicked]

Bluies were popular with taxi drivers also. Telstra is government dept. At the time people assumed govt employees were security vetted.

Security vetting hmmmm. People put far too much trust in that process. Even with a full national police clearance persons suspected and not convicted of any crime will gain a clearance. The accused's alleged background is a perfect example. How did he pass such a clearance? Was he undertaking work on Telstra's behalf in private houses after his guilty plea and conviction in 1990?

Wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[Beatnicked]

Yes exactly , and you can also add in the shameful state of Perths Taxi service at that time.....could wait hours for a Taxi , frequent calls to operators and getting stuffed around, then if the Taxi does show up adding insult to injury getting charged an arm and a leg for the short fare home....

And then shameful behaviour of late night patrons vomitting and urinating in taxis. Skipping without paying and abuse and assaults of taxi drivers.

 

[BlueE]

It's not pathetic numbers crap. It's factual data that cannot be cast aside. If you and others cannot understand or comprehend how the accused may have used dates to calculate his 'horrendous game plan' to include every detail. The facts cannot be ignored. The fact that the disposal site degrees of Jane and Ciara add up to Ciara's birthdate cannot be ignored.

The fact that the birthdate of the accused and all three Claremont victims are connected to the 1st victim's birthdate cannot be ignored as the facts reveal the abductions were not opportunistic and shows the accused likely knew intimate details of each victim prior to their alleged abductions.

The night each young lady was abducted was not their 1st night attending the Claremont or Cottesloe venues. Note both Sarah and Jane were at the OBH in Cottesloe. The accused is alleged to have mentioned Cottesloe to one of the Telstra living witnesses and there are witnesses that place a Telstra vehicle cruising the streets adjacent to the OBH in 1996/1997 period.


It should be kept in mind Sarah lived in South Perth and Ciara actually lived in South Perth prior to her departure overseas in the 1st quarter of 1996. Ciara shared the flat with a female friend.

It's not factual data when sometimes you count only the days between 2 dates, others are calculated to include one of the exact days only & some use both days & the days between them so you can make the numbers fit your theory.

One of your very last posts of 242 days between BREs birthday & something else is so far off its ridiculous. Cant recall exactly what events you said but it was so obviously wrong when I read it that I bothered to check what it really was, 123 days? Anyway ... in my opinion you're only fooling yourself. If it doesn't line up you change the goal posts so it does.

I don't want to debate this as it send this thread off onto an unnecessary tangent and advise you start your own thread if you want to carry on.

One birthday that often isn't mentioned is that Jane was 22 when she died and not 23 like many have reported because she hadn't had her 23rd birthday yet.

 

[Beatnicked]

Here's a couple of screen shots taken from several 1990's Telecom Australia TV commercials of Telecom workers in various rolls wearing uniforms suited to job position.

Bright orange and yellow high visibility vests, bright orange overalls, white protective telecom logo'd helmets and khaki shirts and shorts feature through out.

The fast motion and swish pan camera movements and shots, plus the age of the adds made it difficult to capture clear pics so they're not the best quality but they do give the general idea of what was being worn back then.

In regards to the possibility of names being embroidered or printed on the uniform shirts from what I can see, the overalls and khaki shirts do appear to have a white rectangular customised telecom logo embroidered badge/patch on them.
In the first image attached, taken from a 1995 telecom Australia tv commercial (pretty sure this actor is in character of an installation technician) you can see the logo patch/badge on the right above pocket and what looks like a photo ID card on the left of his khaki shirt.


View attachment 661897View attachment 661898

Remaining screen shots can all be found on YouTube.
View attachment 661903View attachment 661905View attachment 661906View attachment 661904View attachment 661901

Quite often large companies demand dye specific colours to clothing items to match corporate branding.

 

[BlueE]

The Post this week reports the Court heard statements about critical DNA exhibit evidence still needed to be finalised.

Ms Barbagello said a statement from a senior scientist needed to be expanded. She wanted to finalise all the matters in one report before disclosing it to the defence but she was unable to provide a date when this would be complete.

So the prosecution has not provided disclosure of the DNA evidence to the defence even though they have had two and a half years since the arrest because why?

Carmel is dicking around with no good reason unless...?

 

[BlueE]

Justice Hall said the defence would have to absorb a significant amount of material.

"I am also concerned that it might have some impact on the ability of the defence to finalise their reports and disclose them to you." he said.

 

[BlueE]

The court also heard relevant witnesses were being served subpoenas and he defence had many objections to witness statements.

Special witnesses with health conditions had provided statements and statements by the victims families had also been taken.

There had been a raft of video link applications for witnesses to give evidence from interstate and overseas.

Draft schedule of witnesses was asked to be provided to the court by June 18.

 

[BlueE]

A piece of clothing had been recently obtained and provided to the ChemCentre to examine and analyse, the court heard.

"It's clothing that was utilised by technicians at the time"

Findings from the examination are in a preliminary report, which was provided to the court.

Ms Barbagello confirmed the defence wanted to compare the fibres from this clothing with fibres found among other materials.

She was unable to say whether disclosure could be completed by mid to late June, promoting Justice hall to ask how the information had only just come to light.

Mr Edwards lawyer, Paul Yovich said the preliminary report about the clothing only identified the subject matter and defence experts would need eight to 12 weeks to consider the full report once it was disclosed to the court.

 

[BlueE]