Research Small questions that don't require a whole thread

[Supermercado]

For your obscure or frivolous queries about footy history.

My entry:

- What were the provisions for a drawn Under 19s or Reserves Grand Final? There would have been limited scope for playing extra time, so would the teams have reconvened for a replay?

 

[35Daicos]

For your obscure or frivolous queries about footy history.

My entry:

- What were the provisions for a drawn Under 19s or Reserves Grand Final? There would have been limited scope for playing extra time, so would the teams have reconvened for a replay?

I don't have the answer to this question, but would just like to say well done on coming up with a very good idea for a thread! This thread probably should be 'stickied', but at the very least people should take the hint and make use of it. We get way too many threads with "small questions that don't require a whole thread"! Ideally, we'd also see "nonsense" threads like "Alternate World, where VFL remained, and instead of Interstate teams, they expanded in the state" removed!!! We've had way too much of that type of bullsh** appear here lately!

 

[killer]

All for new people and discussion but
"What if?..."/ Hypothetical / Quantum leap/ "Alternate World" threads just don't work here

 

[killer]

Has there always been an actual break at quarter time / 3 quarter time
rather than just a change of ends?

 

[35Daicos]

For your obscure or frivolous queries about footy history.

My entry:

- What were the provisions for a drawn Under 19s or Reserves Grand Final? There would have been limited scope for playing extra time, so would the teams have reconvened for a replay?

This was raised on Football Statistics a while back, and perhaps the answer will help?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...under-19-records.747399/page-13#post-55954379

 

[Supermercado]

This was raised on Football Statistics a while back, and perhaps the answer will help?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...under-19-records.747399/page-13#post-55954379

From my reading of that they'd just come back the next week and play an empty stadium match. Nearly happened in the '82 Under 19s Grand Final - Melbourne were six points behind late, Frank Rugolo hit the post and Fitzroy went up the other end to kick a goal and win by 11.

 

[35Daicos]

From my reading of that they'd just come back the next week and play an empty stadium match. Nearly happened in the '82 Under 19s Grand Final - Melbourne were six points behind late, Frank Rugolo hit the post and Fitzroy went up the other end to kick a goal and win by 11.

The 1989 game was played at Waverley Park a week later apparently. From that other thread: "This game was replayed on grand final day with the grand final then taking place at Waverley the following week, with no charge being asked to patrons". I don't know of any other Under 19s/Reserves finals that were ever replayed but it may well have happened prior to that game.

 

[rbartlett]

Is Collingwood's Brayden Sier any relation at all to Ken Sier (1940-47 Fitz, 1948-50 Richmond) and his brother Gerry Sier (1948-49 Fitz, 1950 Richmond).
Brayden's father Joe Sier, played for Melb 1979-1980 in U19s.

 

[35Daicos]

Is Collingwood's Brayden Sier any relation at all to Ken Sier (1940-47 Fitz, 1948-50 Richmond) and his brother Gerry Sier (1948-49 Fitz, 1950 Richmond).
Brayden's father Joe Sier, played for Melb 1979-1980 in U19s.

Wikipedia has a DOD for Ken Sier of 23 February 2001 (aged 79): https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ken_Sier

AustralianFootball has 26 February 2002 (aged 80) https://australianfootball.com/players/player/ken+sier/6534

Then there's this (I presume it's meant to be the same person): https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/196467994/kenneth-vincent-sier
Kenneth Vincent Sier
Birth 1922
Death 2 Mar 2001 (aged 78–79)
Burial Melbourne General Cemetery

Someone has it wrong!!

 

[worbod]

I don't know of any other Under 19s/Reserves finals that were ever replayed but it may well have happened prior to that game.

If anyone wants to research the other lower grade draws and replays in the finals, they were:

RESERVES:

1922 1st semi: Essendon drew with Fitzroy (the first finals draw at any level in the VFL)
1961 2nd semi: Collingwood drew with Geelong

UNDER 19:

1962 2nd semi: Footscray drew with Richmond
1963 preliminary: Essendon drew with Geelong
1967 2nd semi: Footscray drew with Richmond

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Was Cyril Gallagher, Adrian’s dad, part of any Carlton coaching groups?

 

[Gibbsy]

This was raised on Football Statistics a while back, and perhaps the answer will help?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...under-19-records.747399/page-13#post-55954379

No issues of The Age on Newspapers.com from Aug through Oct 1989 is a bit annoying for this particular purpose.

The SMH has no match reports (predictably), but did give fixtures and results.

The U-19 prelim final replay (which was played on senior GF day) began at 8:20am.
The U-19 grand final replay was played at VFL Park the following Saturday at 2:00pm and attracted a crowd of "about 10,000".

 

[the croucher]

No issues of The Age on Newspapers.com from Aug through Oct 1989 is a bit annoying for this particular purpose.

The SMH has no match reports (predictably), but did give fixtures and results.

The U-19 prelim final replay (which was played on senior GF day) began at 8:20am.
The U-19 grand final replay was played at VFL Park the following Saturday at 2:00pm and attracted a crowd of "about 10,000".

Yes, very odd that Newspapers.com doesn't have any issues of The Age for that period because a small number are still on Google news archive.
Well, enough issues of right dates to see the U-19s replay & GF results anyway !

The Age - Google News Archive Search

The Age - Google News Archive Search

 

[RedmanWasHere]

On player relations, are draft prospects Matthew Rowell and Caleb Serong related to any Rowell's or Serong's of old?

Also, rbartlett, could Charlie Dean be Roger Dean's grandson?

 

[GreyCrow]

Is Collingwood's Brayden Sier any relation at all to Ken Sier (1940-47 Fitz, 1948-50 Richmond) and his brother Gerry Sier (1948-49 Fitz, 1950 Richmond).
Brayden's father Joe Sier, played for Melb 1979-1980 in U19s.

Gerard Sier had 3 daughters ( as per Herald Sun Tribute) no grandchildren named as such
*Just a minor correction Herald Sun Tribute has these dates ie DOD is 3 days out

SIER. - Gerard John. 4.6.1928 - 13.4.2006

Kenneth Sier also has a notice and again it seems he only had daughters.
Kenneths notice lists brother and sister as Gerard , John and Eileen and son of John and Norah.

Brother John does have sons according to his notice

Added: Kevin Sier is Father and Grandfather to Joseph and Brayden according to his notice

Ok

William Sayers married Catherine Ahern

1.Jonas Venes
1.1 John Jonas
1.2 Kenneth
1.3 Gerard

William Sayers Married Catherine Ahern

2.1 John
2.2 Daniel Joseph
2.3 Kevin Daniel
2.4 Joseph
2.5 Brayden

Does that make sense? ie they are cousins related through William and Catherine

 

[35Daicos]

Gerard Sier had 3 daughters ( as per Herald Sun Tribute) no grandchildren named as such
*Just a minor correction Herald Sun Tribute has these dates ie DOD is 3 days out

SIER. - Gerard John. 4.6.1928 - 13.4.2006

Kenneth Sier also has a notice and again it seems he only had daughters.
Kenneths notice lists brother and sister as Gerard , John and Eileen and son of John and Norah.

Brother John does have sons according to his notice

Added: Kevin Sier is Father and Grandfather to Joseph and Brayden according to his notice

Ok

William Sayers married Catherine Ahern

1.Jonas Venes
1.1 John Jonas
1.2 Kenneth
1.2 Gerard

William Sayers Married Catherine Ahern

2.1 John
2.2 Daniel Joseph
2.3 Kevin Daniel
2.4 Joseph
2.5 Brayden

Does that make sense? ie they are cousins related through William and Catherine

What DOD did you find for Ken Sier? See my post up the page a bit (#9) on this!

Gerry Sier did not make the 2006 Obituaries list in the next year's AFL Record Season Guide.

 

[GreyCrow]

Wikipedia has a DOD for Ken Sier of 23 February 2001 (aged 79): https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ken_Sier

AustralianFootball has 26 February 2002 (aged 80) https://australianfootball.com/players/player/ken+sier/6534

Then there's this (I presume it's meant to be the same person): https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/196467994/kenneth-vincent-sier
Kenneth Vincent Sier
Birth 1922
Death 2 Mar 2001 (aged 78–79)
Burial Melbourne General Cemetery

Someone has it wrong!!

What DOD did you find for Ken Sier? See my post up the page a bit (#9) on this!

SIER. - Kenneth Vincent, passed away Feb. 26, 2001

 

[35Daicos]

SIER. - Kenneth Vincent, passed away Feb. 26, 2001

Thanks. A few corrections are needed there, then!!

 

[RedmanWasHere]

1.Jonas Venes
1.1 John Jonas
1.2 Kenneth
1.3 Gerard

William Sayers Married Catherine Ahern

2.1 John
2.2 Daniel Joseph
2.3 Kevin Daniel
2.4 Joseph
2.5 Brayden

Is this x cousin x times removed?

 

[GreyCrow]

Is this x cousin x times removed?

To be fair it's the one genealogical equation I fall down on

But best guess is Brayden is 1st cousin twice removed

 

[RedmanWasHere]

GC.

If your cousin has a child, that child is your 1st cousin 1x removed.

 

[35Daicos]

On player relations, are draft prospects Matthew Rowell and Caleb Serong related to any Rowell's or Serong's of old?

Also, rbartlett, could Charlie Dean be Roger Dean's grandson?

This covers family connections for 2019 NAB League players, and there's no mention that any of those three players have a connection to an ex-VFL/AFL player: https://nableague.com.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/03/2019-NAB-League-Boys-Season-Guide.pdf

There can't be that many Serong's out there, so it would be a bit surprising if Caleb didn't have Bill somewhere in the family tree!

 

[rbartlett]

Ok

William Sayers married Catherine Ahern

1.Jonas Venes
1.1 John Jonas
1.2 Kenneth
1.3 Gerard

William Sayers Married Catherine Ahern

2.1 John
2.2 Daniel Joseph
2.3 Kevin Daniel
2.4 Joseph
2.5 Brayden

I dont follow this layout above. What's the 2.1 etc

So if we work backwards from Brayden we have:

Brayden's father = John
John's (complete the sentence) = ????
?????? = ?????
????? = Ken Sier the Richmond player.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Caps lock warning.

BRAYDEN SIER, 1997.
JOSEPH SIER (FATHER.)
KEVIN DANIEL SIER, 1924-2002 (GRANDFATHER.)
DANIEL JOSEPH SIER, 1891-1984 (GREAT-GRANDFATHER.)
JOHN SIER, 1858-1958 (GREAT-GREAT-GRANDFATHER.)
WILLIAM SAYER, 1820-1900 (3G-GRANDFATHER.)
JONAS VENES SIER, 1862-1933 (3G-UNCLE.)
JOHN JONAS SIER, 1896-1955 (1x3.)
KENNETH VINCENT SIER, 1922-2001 (2x2.)

Apply the same relationship path for Gerard Sier too.

VFLM/AFLM names = bolded.

Italicised and underlined if non senior player. (I.E. played for Melbourne Demons' U19's side.)

 

[GreyCrow]

I dont follow this layout above. What's the 2.1 etc

So if we work backwards from Brayden we have:

Brayden's father = John
John's (complete the sentence) = ????
?????? = ?????
????? = Ken Sier the Richmond player.

It's called an Ahnenblatt table.

Starts from number 1 as listed ancestor. Children of the original are listed as 1.1 1.2 etc

Then their children are listed similarly adding extra numbers


For the above exercise Jonas is listed as 1st child and John as 2

Their children then follow

Ahnenblatt - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org