Training 2020 Training - pics, reports etc

[spry]

He's not criticising Gibbons Philp, he's just raising up the rest of our best 22 Sharp.

Classic mate


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[Jimmae]

You have copped a bit of over-the-top criticism for your pretty balanced critique of Philp. The first thing I look at in a new player is their footy intel because this aspect is the hardest part to teach. Of course, it is not everything, as Lance's sudden end as a footballer illustrates.

You seem to rate Philp on his intel. We know he has the athletic prowess based on combine numbers, Can you explain why you think his athletic skills are not in the same tier as others he clearly outperformed?

I reckon those parts of his game that you nominate need work -adding body strength, agility, and kicking (particularly knowing the limits of your kicking ability) - can all be improved by good coaching development. Your analysis perversely makes me more pleased to have picked him than I was originally (would have picked Robertson).

It's pretty much the body strength that's a concern given his skill set as an inside mid who can push to the outside, and his value by foot when he does that. Almost exclusively slips tackles rather than showing a propensity to push through them and dish off, which means he can be corralled to spray it by foot.

Gets very low when he runs too, which probably explains some of his inconsistent ability to deal with contact, as well as a tendency to get under his kicks. It will take time to build up his body. That should change with strength and running work, but the skills work needs to be done alongside that so he doesn't keep reverting to that 'hunched' style.

Fisher was another like this, and it looks like he's only now just trying to move differently. Hopefully that shows up in the pre-season games.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Did you miss the part where I actually described his strengths alongside his weaknesses, and why I felt we went early for him (and why apparently Richmond were as well), or did you just start firing off half-cocked?


Was true in 2019 as well. An improvement above what I expected of him (and his play exceeded what everyone but Windows had to say of him), but it's still not his strong suit against the rest of the league.

The good news is the rest of the team is working hard on getting more mobile, so the idea of picking Walsh over someone like Rankine doesn't sting as much any more. It's also worth noting how much speed was a focus in our national draft strategy.

Need to remember the thing we find most difficult on here is being able to adjudge an individual's thought process, something clubs get access to in a series of interviews throughout the year. The rest is just they have more time invested in viewing, and together they get a gauge of the consistency and true capability of their performances.

Not disagreeing with you Jim, just chiming in that if we had of picked Rankine we'd be ****ed right now. Sam Walsh was exactly who we needed. A genuine bonafide ******* AFL gun to sit besides Patrick Cripps and form the core of a one-two punch that will be in their prime for the next 4-6 seasons. Without Walsh in the side right now we'd be looking around for that number 2 man to step up with Setterfield, SPS, Fisher etc as the key front runners. I'm a lot happier with our future prospects with those guys fighting for third spot in our midfield than second. Effectively, Sam Walsh has taken us from a promising midfield to already what should be a quality midfield next season. Rankine would not have helped that AT ALL.

 

[windows1]

Ok fine. I went.

what do ya wanna know?

 

[Blue__Balls]

It's pretty much the body strength that's a concern given his skill set as an inside mid who can push to the outside, and his value by foot when he does that. Almost exclusively slips tackles rather than showing a propensity to push through them and dish off, which means he can be corralled to spray it by foot.

Gets very low when he runs too, which probably explains some of his inconsistent ability to deal with contact, as well as a tendency to get under his kicks. It will take time to build up his body. That should change with strength and running work, but the skills work needs to be done alongside that so he doesn't keep reverting to that 'hunched' style.

Fisher was another like this, and it looks like he's only now just trying to move differently. Hopefully that shows up in the pre-season games.

Will be interesting to see if it is a habit that Fish has worked out, because if that's the case the natural assumption is that someone at the club identified the issue and took steps to correct it. Presumably that would make one more confident of the same potential technique/skill issues in Philp being addressed as well?

 

[Lace_Out]

Ok fine. I went.

what do ya wanna know?

EVERYTHING, NOW.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Jimmae]

Not disagreeing with you Jim, just chiming in that if we had of picked Rankine we'd be f’ed right now. Sam Walsh was exactly who we needed. A genuine bonafide ******* AFL gun to sit besides Patrick Cripps and form the core of a one-two punch that will be in their prime for the next 4-6 seasons. Without Walsh in the side right now we'd be looking around for that number 2 man to step up with Setterfield, SPS, Fisher etc as the key front runners. I'm a lot happier with our future prospects with those guys fighting for third spot in our midfield than second. Effectively, Sam Walsh has taken us from a promising midfield to already what should be a quality midfield next season. Rankine would not have helped that AT ALL.

Disagree, our midfield depth was good enough, and is definitely now good enough. Small forward group is still a mixed bag between Martin's inconsistent play, Betts' age and injury concerns, and Cuningham's ability to stay on the park.

Would we have gotten a reasonable trade from the GC is a better question.

Will be interesting to see if it is a habit that Fish has worked out, because if that's the case the natural assumption is that someone at the club identified the issue and took steps to correct it. Presumably that would make one more confident of the same potential technique/skill issues in Philp being addressed as well?

There's a lot of factors involved, including inflammatory response, back strength/stability, surface of joints and their stability, not to mention learning the skills.

I'm working of very limited info with Fisher, but any improvement will make a difference on how they stand up through tackles, how flat they hit their kicks and the consistency of their acceleration off the mark.

 

[windows1]

Haha

Good old Lace_out

Doesn’t feel right giving heaps of info about drills and so on as it technically wasn’t an open session. There were a few there though. And I established a covert hiding place (right in front of the doors to the cafe...).

so I didn’t really take notes. And I wont say who missed training or what drills they did.

just some impressions:

- NO ONE can beat LOB in endurance speed. A quality poor old Philp found out in some game play and everyone found out in the running.
- Walsh and Cripps (this is breaking news) are truly Batman and Robin.
- Casboult Jones and Weiters are beasts
- Willo is also a beast
- Jack isn’t far from full training
- SPs ran a bit (which was good as he missed the last session)
- Cunners endurance has lifted A LOT
- Eddie is scary good and anyone doubting he will impact this year has NFI
- no one got injured today but there seemed to be plenty of ‘load mgt’ and it was def a lighter day. NO I’m not saying who was on load Mgt. Club seems relaxed about letting people watch and call me paranoid but I’m not giving up s**t that makes them lock it all down.
- TDk isn’t bad in the ruck
- Fisher is best 22 (have said it all summer)
- so is Gibbo so shut up about that. Just shut up. He’s way more clever than you think, hands are great, speed endurance combo terrific. Just be quiet. Don’t want to read about it again.
- note to Windows: pls forget Newman doubts. Just forget them.
- Setters is a lovely player. Does all things lovely. I heart him.
- but he’s no Sam Walsh. My son makes himself coffees when he gets the ball. Just sits down. Watches fools fall over around him. Makes space. Moves on.
- Kennedy looks really good coming out from FF. I like the move. I think that’s the focus for him now.
- Ben S is as slow as a wet week. Sorry but he just is. Concerning. I’ve previously been more bullish. I’m not so much now.
- back on LOB: at more than one point this year you’ll find yourself going PHOAAAR. After 5m of winding up he’s phenomenal. I’m not sure there’s a player in the game who could match him running one end to the other, turn around and run back again. Amazing.
- Dow? Another ‘dunno’ day for me.

That’ll do ya.

John Farnham

 

[windows1]

Disagree, our midfield depth was good enough, and is definitely now good enough. Small forward group is still a mixed bag between Martin's inconsistent play, Betts' age and injury concerns, and Cuningham's ability to stay on the park.

Would we have gotten a reasonable trade from the GC is a better question.


There's a lot of factors involved, including inflammatory response, back strength/stability, surface of joints and their stability, not to mention learning the skills.

I'm working of very limited info with Fisher, but any improvement will make a difference on how they stand up through tackles, how flat they hit their kicks and the consistency of their acceleration off the mark.

Haven’t seen Fish rag dolled once this summer Jimwa. Core strength through the roof.

 

[Macca43]

Haha

Good old Lace_out

Doesn’t feel right giving heaps of info about drills and so on as it technically wasn’t an open session. There were a few there though. And I established a covert hiding place (right in front of the doors to the cafe...).

so I didn’t really take notes. And I wont say who missed training or what drills they did.

just some impressions:

- NO ONE can beat LOB in endurance speed. A quality poor old Philp found out in some game play and everyone found out in the running.
- Walsh and Cripps (this is breaking news) are truly Batman and Robin.
- Casboult Jones and Weiters are beasts
- Willo is also a beast
- Jack isn’t far from full training
- SPs ran a bit (which was good as he missed the last session)
- Cunners endurance has lifted A LOT
- Eddie is scary good and anyone doubting he will impact this year has NFI
- no one got injured today but there seemed to be plenty of ‘load mgt’ and it was def a lighter day. NO I’m not saying who was on load Mgt. Club seems relaxed about letting people watch and call me paranoid but I’m not giving up s**t that makes them lock it all down.
- TDk isn’t bad in the ruck
- Fisher is best 22 (have said it all summer)
- so is Gibbo so shut up about that. Just shut up. He’s way more clever than you think, hands are great, speed endurance combo terrific. Just be quiet. Don’t want to read about it again.
- note to Windows: pls forget Newman doubts. Just forget them.
- Setters is a lovely player. Does all things lovely. I heart him.
- but he’s no Sam Walsh. My son makes himself coffees when he gets the ball. Just sits down. Watches fools fall over around him. Makes space. Moves on.
- Kennedy looks really good coming out from FF. I like the move. I think that’s the focus for him now.
- Ben S is as slow as a wet week. Sorry but he just is. Concerning. I’ve previously been more bullish. I’m not so much now.
- back on LOB: at more than one point this year you’ll find yourself going PHOAAAR. After 5m of winding up he’s phenomenal. I’m not sure there’s a player in the game who could match him running one end to the other, turn around and run back again. Amazing.
- Dow? Another ‘dunno’ day for me.

That’ll do ya.

John Farnham

Thanks for the report - not sure the AFL are going to let us play with 28 in the team though.

 

[windows1]

Thanks for the report - not sure the AFL are going to let us play with 28 in the team though.

In the spirit of my good friend Ferrisb:

I don’t want your ‘thanks’. I just want your ‘likes’. So like my post and STFU Macca.

 

[Macca43]

In the spirit of my good friend Ferrisb:

I don’t want your ‘thanks’. I just want your ‘likes’. So like my post and STFU Macca.

I was certain I had, rectified now!!

 

[therubbernub]

Not disagreeing with you Jim, just chiming in that if we had of picked Rankine we'd be f’ed right now. Sam Walsh was exactly who we needed. A genuine bonafide ******* AFL gun to sit besides Patrick Cripps and form the core of a one-two punch that will be in their prime for the next 4-6 seasons. Without Walsh in the side right now we'd be looking around for that number 2 man to step up with Setterfield, SPS, Fisher etc as the key front runners. I'm a lot happier with our future prospects with those guys fighting for third spot in our midfield than second. Effectively, Sam Walsh has taken us from a promising midfield to already what should be a quality midfield next season. Rankine would not have helped that AT ALL.

It’s hard to not be excited about Sam. As you say we needed another gun midfielder and he is certainly it. But it is also pretty easy to underestimate the impact Rankine might have had as we did not see him. IMO a fit Rankine would make Rozee’s first year look second rate. Instead of chasing papley and Martin we could well have thought that Rankine was enough and instead targeted another amid....come in mr wines. It’s a sliding doors moment, an I guess we will know more after seeing Rankine in 2020


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ferrisb]

In the spirit of my good friend Ferrisb:

I don’t want your ‘thanks’. I just want your ‘likes’. So like my post and STFU Macca.

I have decided I no longer want to chase likes on BF...
























.. I want those haha/LOL reactions instead!

 

[Arr0w]

It’s hard to not be excited about Sam. As you say we needed another gun midfielder and he is certainly it. But it is also pretty easy to underestimate the impact Rankine might have had as we did not see him. IMO a fit Rankine would make Rozee’s first year look second rate. Instead of chasing papley and Martin we could well have thought that Rankine was enough and instead targeted another amid....come in mr wines. It’s a sliding doors moment, an I guess we will know more after seeing Rankine in 2020


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's the main concern though, Rankine's commitment to workload/rate that had gone missing in his final year of juniors.

There is no questioning his talent, but unless he puts in the required work, he will never reach his potential and may continue to have soft tissue injuries

 

[Jeremias]

Personally I appreciate it just as much as I do the positives when it’s posted on this board. (Assuming they aren’t a troll) since moving from Melbourne I can’t see training ect so I really appreciate hearing both the good and the bad. It’s no different imo as posting the positives about a player

Of course there's a difference.

I am not suggesting we can't discuss the negatives of the players on our list but commenting "so far he seems lost" is a long bow to draw from very limited viewing of a kid barely 2 months into his professional career.

It’s all just people’s opinion on here so it’s interesting, some people make theirs early and others don’t.
When asking what the point is, then why do we ever even talk about the draft? We have way less to go on then what we do now. Alot of people have probably seen ten times more of Philp in the flesh now even after only two months then they had the majority of kids before they were drafted.
The reason you talk about negatives is to actually paint a true picture which is huge for people like me who can’t make it down to the training sessions anymore.

As above, I have no issue with talking about the cons of certain players and their game.

But that's not what this was; this was forming a negative opinion (that will probably last well beyond a reasonable time frame based on prior evidence) and extrapolating on not seeing something in what, 5 minutes of footage?

You can disagree with the content, but to say it adds nothing is unbelievably wilful naivety.

Jimmae provided a nice summary that has aided the discussion and provided a new perspective to which a number of posters took on and provided their own interpretation of. He wasn’t being purposefully negative.

I am not suggesting Jim is trolling nor do I think he's being purposefully negative. His contributions on the whole are terrific and more than welcome.

But there's a clear tendency to nitpick and find one small negative which is then blown up into something which it just isn't.

The point made is fine, but it's all in the delivery. Had the comment been more along the lines of "It's only early but based on what I've seen I don't think Philp is performing at his peak just yet" there wouldn't have been an issue. I mean it's a ridiculous thing to post given it's January and he was drafted in November, but it probably would have passed unnoticed.

 

[ferrisb]

I'm already disappointed by the lack of development of our 2020 draftees....

 

[Jimmae]

Haha

Good old Lace_out

Doesn’t feel right giving heaps of info about drills and so on as it technically wasn’t an open session. There were a few there though. And I established a covert hiding place (right in front of the doors to the cafe...).

so I didn’t really take notes. And I wont say who missed training or what drills they did.

just some impressions:

- NO ONE can beat LOB in endurance speed. A quality poor old Philp found out in some game play and everyone found out in the running.
- Walsh and Cripps (this is breaking news) are truly Batman and Robin.
- Casboult Jones and Weiters are beasts
- Willo is also a beast
- Jack isn’t far from full training
- SPs ran a bit (which was good as he missed the last session)
- Cunners endurance has lifted A LOT
- Eddie is scary good and anyone doubting he will impact this year has NFI
- no one got injured today but there seemed to be plenty of ‘load mgt’ and it was def a lighter day. NO I’m not saying who was on load Mgt. Club seems relaxed about letting people watch and call me paranoid but I’m not giving up s**t that makes them lock it all down.
- TDk isn’t bad in the ruck
- Fisher is best 22 (have said it all summer)
- so is Gibbo so shut up about that. Just shut up. He’s way more clever than you think, hands are great, speed endurance combo terrific. Just be quiet. Don’t want to read about it again.
- note to Windows: pls forget Newman doubts. Just forget them.
- Setters is a lovely player. Does all things lovely. I heart him.
- but he’s no Sam Walsh. My son makes himself coffees when he gets the ball. Just sits down. Watches fools fall over around him. Makes space. Moves on.
- Kennedy looks really good coming out from FF. I like the move. I think that’s the focus for him now.
- Ben S is as slow as a wet week. Sorry but he just is. Concerning. I’ve previously been more bullish. I’m not so much now.
- back on LOB: at more than one point this year you’ll find yourself going PHOAAAR. After 5m of winding up he’s phenomenal. I’m not sure there’s a player in the game who could match him running one end to the other, turn around and run back again. Amazing.
- Dow? Another ‘dunno’ day for me.

That’ll do ya.

John Farnham

Looking forward to seeing how you're fitting 35 players into a 22.

Haven’t seen Fish rag dolled once this summer Jimwa. Core strength through the roof.

To be fair, we've only got a couple of players in the midfield unit who could actually ragdoll him. Let's see how he's looking in 3 and 7 weeks time.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Of course there's a difference.

I am not suggesting we can't discuss the negatives of the players on our list but commenting "so far he seems lost" is a long bow to draw from very limited viewing of a kid barely 2 months into his professional career.



As above, I have no issue with talking about the cons of certain players and their game.

But that's not what this was; this was forming a negative opinion (that will probably last well beyond a reasonable time frame based on prior evidence) and extrapolating on not seeing something in what, 5 minutes of footage?



I am not suggesting Jim is trolling nor do I think he's being purposefully negative. His contributions on the whole are terrific and more than welcome.

But there's a clear tendency to nitpick and find one small negative which is then blown up into something which it just isn't.

The point made is fine, but it's all in the delivery. Had the comment been more along the lines of "It's only early but based on what I've seen I don't think Philp is performing at his peak just yet" there wouldn't have been an issue. I mean it's a ridiculous thing to post given it's January and he was drafted in November, but it probably would have passed unnoticed.

I just don’t see anything wrong with that. We were hearing the complete opposite about Walsh the second he walked into the club so I don’t see the difference or anything wrong with that. I’m sure you won’t pull someone up for “drawing a long bow” if they say a recruit looks really comfortable so I don’t see the reason to for the opposite.

 

[Red_man2008]

windows1 amy chance you might post a best 22 somewhere close by we can all look. You’ve had the most looks at the boys so far this year and I’ll be interested in your insight.

 

[Jeremias]

I just don’t see anything wrong with that. We were hearing the complete opposite about Walsh the second he walked into the club so I don’t see the difference or anything wrong with that. I’m sure you won’t pull someone up for “drawing a long bow” if they say a recruit looks really comfortable so I don’t see the reason to for the opposite.

Read the whole response.

I have an issue with the wording more than I do the point being made.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

- so is Gibbo so shut up about that. Just shut up. He’s way more clever than you think, hands are great, speed endurance combo terrific. Just be quiet. Don’t want to read about it again.

ummmm.....yes, yes, yes,yes.....and yes.....

Gibbo's in our best 22 in a heartbeat.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Disagree, our midfield depth was good enough, and is definitely now good enough. Small forward group is still a mixed bag between Martin's inconsistent play, Betts' age and injury concerns, and Cuningham's ability to stay on the park.

Would we have gotten a reasonable trade from the GC is a better question.


There's a lot of factors involved, including inflammatory response, back strength/stability, surface of joints and their stability, not to mention learning the skills.

I'm working of very limited info with Fisher, but any improvement will make a difference on how they stand up through tackles, how flat they hit their kicks and the consistency of their acceleration off the mark.

No, we'd be looking at another bottom four finish this year if we had Rankine over Walsh i reckon.

 

[SBYM]

If windows is to be believed ( and I do ) , David Cunningham now lives in his basement such is the level of the house HE has trained down.

Sounds like he's flying, which is hard to do whilst simultaneously training the house down.

 

[windows1]

My current preseason Round One

Jones Weiters Newman SPS Simmo Doc Plow
Kreuze Crippa Walsh Murph Setters Fish Ed Cunners
Mcg McKAy (if back) Kennedy SOS Gibbo Martin Betts

Apologies to Newnes, LOB, Marchy, Stocker, Willo and Dow.

CC in for Kennedy in best 22 at this stage.