Training 2020 Training - pics, reports etc

[HARKER]

Don't even like the term 'small forwards' as it was and maybe still is used for a small goal-kicker with somewhat freakish ability to manufacture something special out of nothing. They types we'll be interested in are goal-kickers, whether they're 175cm or 185cm. A 'size' alone isn't everything.

Clearly clubs rated these types though as Weightman, Henry and Pickett were all taken within the top 15 of the draft last year.
Were they all really in the best 15 available or did needs play a part? The answer should be pretty clear.

I understand the want for these players and no doubt Teague understands it, as there would be no Betts (if only for a year) otherwise.

 

[HARKER]

What's the story with Marchbank at training? Has he only been training with his fellow defenders? Has anyone seen him take shots on goal during training? I can see him as a swingman of the SOS variety. SOS was often switched to our forward line with relative success. Not sure we can continue to play three talls in our backline and without Charlie, we lack a tall mobile marking forward.

As for Jack, I can see him turning into a very good tagger. Rapt he is training with the midfield group. Jack comes across a smart competitive, never give up type player like his old man. Will have to wait until he improves his endurance and body strength. We desperately need a tagger who can hurt the opposition with ball in hand.

Marchbank is just starting to engage.
He's an out of sight out of mind type, particularly given we haven't really seen a lot of him in A-Grade nick, but when full fitness allows, he's one hell of a player to me. Fingers crossed he joins in full contact next week.

 

[Arr0w]

God dammit. Another thread of mine hijacked by needless argument and one-upmanship.

This type of 'discussion' can go to the SFA, where pointless arguments that are never going to be 'won' are commonplace.

Now, count me on the 2020 AA Weiters train. Is a boss out there. Coming of age.

It's not pointless Matty

A couple of years ago, many thought we were too tall across the park, especially forward, due to what the Dogs/Tigers did in 16/17, which was put to bed with the lineups of WC/Tigers 18/19

This trade/draft period we addressed our greatest needs. Footskills, Newnes and Martin, who also bolster our immature midfield rotations and speed via the draft. Betts and Pittonet plugs some holes short term.

This along with a more attacking gameplan will improve our forward 50 entries

Small forwards will be overtaken by mids that can rest forward, Dangerfield, Green, Martin, Cripps, Bont, JDG, Billings, Caddy, Walters, etc

Only the elite, the likes of Betts, Cameron will survive. Let's not emulate a dying setup

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It's not pointless Matty

A couple of years ago, many thought we were too tall across the park, especially forward, due to what the Dogs/Tigers did in 16/17, which was put to bed with the lineups of WC/Tigers 18/19

This trade/draft period we addressed our greatest needs. Footskills, Newnes and Martin, who also bolster our immature midfield rotations and speed via the draft. Betts and Pittonet plugs some holes short term.

This along with a more attacking gameplan will improve our forward 50 entries

Small forwards will be overtaken by mids that can rest forward, Dangerfield, Green, Martin, Cripps, Bont, JDG, Billings, Caddy, Walters, etc

Only the elite, the likes of Betts, Cameron will survive. Let's not emulate a dying setup

You’ve just reeled off some of the best players in the game. They are extremely rare and are exceptions to the rule. More realistic examples are Murphy and Curnow playing forward this year.

 

[Arr0w]

You’ve just reeled off some of the best players in the game. They are extremely rare and are exceptions to the rule. More realistic examples are Murphy and Curnow playing forward this year.

Or we just remain with the facts, average goals per game from last year.

How many traditional small forwards can you see in the top 50

AFL Goalkickers for Season 2019

AFL Goalkickers Average Statistics for Season 2019.

www.footywire.com

 

[Azzurro]

As I said, will constantly change

Same day

 

[Arr0w]

Same day

Injury to Jack? Plus, like everyone, the makeup, composition of the side is difficult to nail down with a better quality group

 

[blue healer]

Or we just remain with the facts, average goals per game from last year.

How many traditional small forwards can you see in the top 50

AFL Goalkickers for Season 2019

AFL Goalkickers Average Statistics for Season 2019.

www.footywire.com

Depends on what you call a small forward but if, as many here believe that we can and should use Kennedy as a small forward, we use his 190cms as a height benchmark then I count 20 in the top 50 as being under that height.

An average list is just a little skewed as well, I count 13 players on that list who played 12 or less games.

Interestingly, if you use the 190 cms benchmark then you will find that the leading goalkickers from 11 clubs were under 190 cms.

Not going to get into an argument on what does and does not constitute a "small forward" just quoting some stats as I see them.

 

[Matty411]

It's not pointless Matty

A couple of years ago, many thought we were too tall across the park, especially forward, due to what the Dogs/Tigers did in 16/17, which was put to bed with the lineups of WC/Tigers 18/19

This trade/draft period we addressed our greatest needs. Footskills, Newnes and Martin, who also bolster our immature midfield rotations and speed via the draft. Betts and Pittonet plugs some holes short term.

This along with a more attacking gameplan will improve our forward 50 entries

Small forwards will be overtaken by mids that can rest forward, Dangerfield, Green, Martin, Cripps, Bont, JDG, Billings, Caddy, Walters, etc

Only the elite, the likes of Betts, Cameron will survive. Let's not emulate a dying setup

The context itself is fine, it's the carry on and fact it's being side tracked and gone way off topic from the training thread.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Or we just remain with the facts, average goals per game from last year.

How many traditional small forwards can you see in the top 50

AFL Goalkickers for Season 2019

AFL Goalkickers Average Statistics for Season 2019.

www.footywire.com

I imagine you’re talking stay at home small forwards. It’s never been a major role and players like Milne and Betts over history are extremely rare. 90% of small forwards have more bows to their string then that because it’s probably one of the hardest things to do in football and very few can survive.
If someone is going to be playing 80% forward and 20% mid you are much better off having a good forward and average mid rather then an average forward and good mid. Eg Curnow, Murphy.
Also in that list Martin is the only resting mid who made the top 50 and he is the best player in the league.

 

[ctacp]

I have been saying this for years. There are some players that are just dangerous around goals.

Some guys have it. Most don't. As an opposition supporter, it's the guy on the other team that you start sweating if he is within 5-10 metres of the ball in the forward line.

Let's use wingard as an example. If he's lurking around the ball inside 50 you're screaming don't give it wingard, don't give it to wingard. And when he does kick a goal you're like I knew it. I just knew.

Any player can learn to kick snap goals and banana kicks and even the art of crumbing. But it's rarified air, the ones that create something out of nothing. I'd say it's a unique combo of 'one touch', footy IQ, agility and goal sense. They're the ones you want.

John Travolta & Olivia Newton John agree with this post.

 

[ctacp]

You still have hopes for Kennedy in midfield? I think the club are dead set focused on him being a forward.

I hope he can nail down a dual spot. As a genuine option forwardkicking goals who can also help Cripps in midfield. Versatility is key for many players.

 

[ctacp]

or be wizards of invention - milne, cyril, eddie..........

2 are finished, & eddy didnt do much in the big dance a few years ago though.

 

[Arr0w]

Depends on what you call a small forward but if, as many here believe that we can and should use Kennedy as a small forward, we use his 190cms as a height benchmark then I count 20 in the top 50 as being under that height.

An average list is just a little skewed as well, I count 13 players on that list who played 12 or less games.

Interestingly, if you use the 190 cms benchmark then you will find that the leading goalkickers from 11 clubs were under 190 cms.

Not going to get into an argument on what does and does not constitute a "small forward" just quoting some stats as I see them.

Surely Kennedy would be considered a 3rd tall marking forward, rather than a traditional crumbing forward.

I guess this year will give us a better understanding of our needs in the forward line

 

[Arr0w]

I imagine you’re talking stay at home small forwards. It’s never been a major role and players like Milne and Betts over history are extremely rare. 90% of small forwards have more bows to their string then that because it’s probably one of the hardest things to do in football and very few can survive.
If someone is going to be playing 80% forward and 20% mid you are much better off having a good forward and average mid rather then an average forward and good mid. Eg Curnow, Murphy.
Also in that list Martin is the only resting mid who made the top 50 and he is the best player in the league.

So we completely ignore KPFs and 3rd talls in that list, not to mention medium marking options?

Perhaps we can take up this debate end of year

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

So we completely ignore KPFs and 3rd talls in that list, not to mention medium marking options?

Perhaps we can take up this debate end of year

No I only mentioned Martin because of your comment about small forwards getting overtaken by Elite midfielders resting down there. No one is saying you don’t want three talls down there or that they are not vital in goal scoring power.
I think you have this idea that when people talk about small forwards they are talking about a stay at home small forward like Betts. I don’t think that is the case. the majority of people realise that isn’t the role of most small forwards. Also I think the role they play isn’t as easy as some make out and that it can just be plugged by a midfielder. We seen that first hand when two of our best mids failed in the role playing forward.

 

[blue healer]

Surely Kennedy would be considered a 3rd tall marking forward, rather than a traditional crumbing forward.

I guess this year will give us a better understanding of our needs in the forward line

Injury withstanding, I think we'd all agree that McKay, Curnow and McGovern are all ahead of Kennedy as an any numbered tall and it's debatable but Levi and Jack are probably in front as well so I think if Kennedy is to become a regular best 22 and stay in the forward line then he better learn to crumb.

 

[La Dispute]

Injury withstanding, I think we'd all agree that McKay, Curnow and McGovern are all ahead of Kennedy as an any numbered tall and it's debatable but Levi and Jack are probably in front as well so I think if Kennedy is to become a regular best 22 and stay in the forward line then he better learn to crumb.

Watch his highlights from his almost full season playing as a permanent forward at GWS. He has the ability at ground level, and surprisingly good goal sense.

 

[blue healer]

Watch his highlights from his almost full season playing as a permanent forward at GWS. He has the ability at ground level, and surprisingly good goal sense.

Yeah, not disputing that at all, just saying that he will have plenty competition as a third tall if we're anywhere near full strength.

 

[LanceRomance]

People really overrate "small forwards"

Come on arrow, when we had Eddie Betts and garlett running around we were winning games we had no right winning. We have been missing a quality small forward since Betts left and no one has been able to Fill the role.

 

[JustaBattler]

Whenever players move into play between the arcs - they are midfielders and have to move like midfielders. Whenever a player is in attacking 50 he is a forward - this is the modern game. Papley as an example plays a very different game to Betts- he plays a lot between the arcs - despite being labelled a small forward. Betts as was said above- is a rare one who spends most of his time in the forward 50 - but at Adelaide he too was often playing stints between the arcs...

It all depends on the game plan at any point in time and how the coach on game day wants to structure. I'm looking 'forward' ( haha) to seeing a continuation of Teague's 'masterstroke' of maintaining a forward structure with at least 4 targets in the forward fifty ...something Bolton was prepared to sacrifice to what I thought was the team's detriment.

Midfield composition has to be trusted to win their fair share of the ball and get it into what should be a very competent if not dangerous set of forwards he now has at his disposal - if/when Charlie gets back Carlton will have a factor X player that can't really be matched up on one on one with any real confidence.- but Harry and a fit McGovern are no slouches when it comes to running - I'm genuinely excited about our forward line and defensive structures coming into 2020 - the big question will be - can the midfield bunch match the defensive and forward capability...

 

[Arr0w]

Injury withstanding, I think we'd all agree that McKay, Curnow and McGovern are all ahead of Kennedy as an any numbered tall and it's debatable but Levi and Jack are probably in front as well so I think if Kennedy is to become a regular best 22 and stay in the forward line then he better learn to crumb.

Really has nothing to do with my original post

 

[Arr0w]

Come on arrow, when we had Eddie Betts and garlett running around we were winning games we had no right winning. We have been missing a quality small forward since Betts left and no one has been able to Fill the role.

Yeah we won plenty of flags

 

[Arr0w]

Or we just remain with the facts, average goals per game from last year.

How many traditional small forwards can you see in the top 50

AFL Goalkickers for Season 2019

AFL Goalkickers Average Statistics for Season 2019.

www.footywire.com

Matty411 you are better than just disliking a post, but if that is the line you want to take, rather than debating the situation, so be it

 

[Azzurro]

Injury to Jack? Plus, like everyone, the makeup, composition of the side is difficult to nail down with a better quality group

You justifying it is funnier than the slip up.

FWIW, JSOS is firmly in my 22. But, actually.