Society/Culture Has Australia developed a social sickness? Or has it always been this way?

[Jibroni]

Also should be noted that for most of Australia the restrictions currently in place are overkill - but when you tell people 'hey maybe only buy as much toilet paper as you need, maybe don't travel overseas unless you have to, maybe don't congregate in large groups' look what happens. Bunch of selfish campaigners. all of us.

Nail on the head Scotland and why humanity seems to be broken and lacking any part of resilience.

 

[Run n Spread]

Always been this way. There does tend to be a hard edge to Australia. Weird in any case as on a positive it is Shut Up and Stop Complaining (which means things get done and we can pull through a crisis) but a negative as no one questions anything and we are quick to fall into line and be compliant. So not much changes. (Hence social and economic change tends to be behind.

As to the OPs post in the past 5 years certainly things are more ruthless. Its like people can't handle someone going against the status quo. like they take it as a personal insult. Or if it is a policy something they are against a direct threat. Our pace of life and economic pressures mean there is very much a Protect your Turf F off everyone else mindset.

Take these people in a Hotel. It is an unusual emergency situation and they can handle 2 weeks ( a break is fine) but
a) They did nothing wrong. Hell they are only acting how they were encouraged. On 27-02 the PM sent a tweet not to panic and support industry. In March we were all encouraged to get out and support Womens Sport Moomba etc. Now suddenly the government back tracks (due to their F ups, imposes a Police State and people are quick to hang s**t on tourists). This is an ugly part of Australian Society. Far from Tall poppy anymore people love to hang s**t on these below them or in more misfortune somehow. (This is something that has changed last 20 years imo)

b) Sure "some" are a bit over the top with complaints. But why can't they order in a delivery or go outside. FFS. They don't have leprosy. Honestly common sense has gone out the window.

c) On the positive IRL talk to someone one on one and people can still be friendly at heart. People are generally following social distance and respectfully keeping space but still enjoying the sun and going outdoors without getting stupid. Some would prefer we all hide under the bed and wait for Government Instruction. In fact a lot of people are starting to get sceptical about this whole set up frankly.

 

[Cash is King]

Australians have proven time and time again that they are just too stupid to enjoy the freedoms and rights without going overboard and taking the piss. The yanks are the same.

Furthermore, what were any of those *en dickheads doing traveling as recently as March when they were advised not to?

Aussies love to push the limits of authority and have such disregard for rules and the greater good that it’s no surprise that these laws need to be implemented.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

next it will be their grandfather died at Gallipoli to defend their right to have Uber Eats.

Remember the ANZACS!!!!

Fight for the ANZAC... biscuit.

KILL!! KILL!!

 

[Scotland]

With the greatest of respect, because you are one of the sanest and most reasonable people on this forum, this is a strange line.

And a bizarre mindset.

When people are being put on effective house arrest across the country, this is exactly the time to 'go full civil libertarian', as you put it.

Pandemic or no pandemic, when the state is closing businesses and sending people home and banning people from beaches, something is up.

If we don't ask questions now, when do we ask questions?

You can ask as many questions you like now, and most of them can be easily answered.

How many people are in "house arrest"? And why? I can walk to the shop if I want, the army aren't patrolling the streets with tanks. In a perfect world you should be able to just go home and self isolate after travelling overseas, but people weren't taking that seriously. Like I said, if you are annoyed you can't do something take it up with all the people who ruined being able to do it. I have to go and pick up some stuff shortly. I am free to drive to the shops (that are still open) and to that. The govt has just put in rules about how many people in a shop of a given size at a given time etc. Fine with me, I'd prefer snotty kids in Bunnings keep further than 1.5m away from me at the best of times, but the rules aren't there for me. 'You can get COVID-19 if someone coughs near you' is enough reason for me to avoid the sickies who value a trip to Kmart over the health of others. As Jim Jefferies says 'we have to play to the 1% who are such *******s they ruin it for everyone else'.

People are both selfish and thick. Right now, I'd prefer the govt go too far than not far enough. The govt aren't enjoying this. Stopping people from doing stuff isn't winning them popularity points (i.e. votes) and it is shrinking the economy, which is the one thing our nuffy PM bangs on and on about. "The state" has erred at every step in order to try and keep businesses open and delay the burden being pushed onto them.

If you think there is something sinister at play, then lay out your case. But for the minute I am sticking with Occam's Razor. We're not living in 1984. When the govt starts mandating what I can and can't do because I voted the wrong way or accessed a free press website or whatever, then I'll be looking for a 2nd amendment.

 

[Evolved1]

I’m not whinging about lack of freedoms/authoritarianism/police state. I’m just saying the alternative is these other places. Italy didn’t lock down until they reached 800 deaths. I bet if they could go back in time...

False dichotomy.

 

[Evolved1]

Look at America to see where their importance of civil rights has them right now.

Perhaps, now stay with me here since I know it’s complex, some short-term individual inconvenience is worthwhile to protect the community as a whole?

Most of the Asian countries get this, and that’s why they’ve been effective at managing the impact and spread of this. The US doesn’t get this, and that’s why they haven’t been effective at it.

The Asian countries...like China? If you believe their stats, I suppose they know what they're doing.

You can't compare countries like Singapore to Australia. Their culture and political system is vastly different and their politicians far more competent.

If you want to allow Daniel Andrews, who backflipped over a ban to keep romantic partners separate, to do your thinking for you....good luck buddy.

I'll think for myself along with the other simple folk.

 

[Evolved1]

Why should govt have to coordinate that for 50-120 rooms, with multiple orders per room, multiple times a day?

No

These people chose to return at the last minute. Govt had been saying come home for weeks, and they chose not to. Even better, some chose to board a ******* cruise after the diamond princess farce, and then are shocked they are in quarantine.

It's two weeks. It's better than Nauru or Christmas Island or Manus Island. People should stop sooking

Security and police designated as impromptu prison guards could do something useful and bring the food up.

 

[Evolved1]

So we had the group of Aussies via Christmas Island who were grateful compared to a bunch of sooks in upmarket hotels unable to get drugs.
Then there is the trash that pose as journos .....

You made a couple of typos there, mate. They're makeshift prison cells, and the drugs you're referring to are what most people call fresh air.

Who doesn't enjoy being locked up?

 

[Kwality]

You made a couple of typos there, mate. They're makeshift prison cells, and the drugs you're referring to are what most people call fresh air.

Who doesn't enjoy being locked up?

I'll come back with the links if you need, wont bother if its your idea of mayo. They are sooks.

 

[Cash is King]

You made a couple of typos there, mate. They're makeshift prison cells, and the drugs you're referring to are what most people call fresh air.

Who doesn't enjoy being locked up?

Drug dealer was actually busted trying to sell drugs to one of those rebels in quarantine.
You probably already know that.

 

[Evolved1]

Drug dealer was actually busted trying to sell drugs to one of those rebels in quarantine.
You probably already know that.

Lock 'em up and throw away the key. Two birds with one stone...drug addiction and COVID-19.

Pure genius.

 

[Evolved1]

I'll come back with the links if you need, wont bother if its your idea of mayo. They are sooks.

That wont be necessary. It makes no difference to my position on the issue.

You would cry too if it happened to you.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

You guys have fallen for the scapegoat trick way too easily.

The government clamps down on how and where you can live your life, tells you it was the backpackers, the 'non isolators' fault, and you fell for it.

Damn, Scotland I gave you tonnes more credit than that.

Agree with your point about the gov on shifting blame. The Ruby princess is etched into our history.now and the blame game is prelimary final standard. At the end of the day it was captains call and duttun shirt fronted us all By allowing to disembark as if there had been no diamond Princess. Health authorities knew weeks before that airplanes and cruise ships were like feeding a gremlin after Midnight and wetting them.

We had some border closure and it was customs call at the end of the day. Its pretty basic s**t, but look how complicated its got.

But when you travel, you listen to your governments advice. Just like when you're 6 years old and start walking to school on your own, you listen to your mother's advice. The media should not be entertaining the drama queen's in any way. Were suppose to be all in this toghther and they're creating divide. You're one of the most sensible posters on this forum ever. Here we are arguing. We both deal with renegade mods and thier alters all the time.

In early Feb the government's advice was pretty serious, no politics in it at all. By not heeding that advice, we're Not all in this together

 

[The Passenger]

Demanding returning international travelers be confined to a hotel room for 14 days is delving deep into authoritarianism. There's no reason they can't be asked to stay at home and given a fine or other legal penalty for breaching that order.

Would that not be trading one form of authoritarianism for another form of authoritarianism?

As much as neither option is appealing, allowing the government to actively spy on me at home (inb4 Alexa, smartphones etc) sounds worse long term in comparison to enduring a couple of weeks in a hotel before removing myself - theoretically - from their prying eyes.

 

[sherb]

It's 14 days in a hotel room.

Not 14 months or 14 years in a detention centre or a prison - 14 days in a hotel room.

For the greater good.

The inhumanity of it all.

 

[owen87]

The Asian countries...like China? If you believe their stats, I suppose they know what they're doing.

You can't compare countries like Singapore to Australia. Their culture and political system is vastly different and their politicians far more competent.

If you want to allow Daniel Andrews, who backflipped over a ban to keep romantic partners separate, to do your thinking for you....good luck buddy.

I'll think for myself along with the other simple folk.

Clearly you've got your head so deeply ensconced in conspiracy theories that you can't apply logic.

The exact point I was making is that countries like Singapore, S Korea and Japan - and yes even the Chinese people - understand that individual inconvenience is worthwhile for the benefit of the community at times. This is one of those times.

People like you apparently, have no concept of that.

 

[Evolved1]

Clearly you've got your head so deeply ensconced in conspiracy theories that you can't apply logic.

The exact point I was making is that countries like Singapore, S Korea and Japan - and yes even the Chinese people - understand that individual inconvenience is worthwhile for the benefit of the community at times. This is one of those times.

People like you apparently, have no concept of that.

You've made a rather broad and simplistic generalisation about cultural differences between Australians/Westerners and Asians without providing any supporting evidence. That's the basic standard for anyone who is claiming to come from a position of logic.

Bean-counters and statisticians have a one-dimensional view of the issue, and that seems to be enough for some. If you can't see beyond raw numbers in respect to COVID-19 cases and deaths, then your idea of the 'greater good' is very different to mine.

I wasn't surprised to see a learner driver and her mum fined for non-essential travel in Victoria. Presumably that fell under the 'greater good' too.

 

[Number37]

You've made a rather broad and simplistic generalisation about cultural differences between Australians/Westerners and Asians without providing any supporting evidence. That's the basic standard for anyone who is claiming to come from a position of logic.

Bean-counters and statisticians have a one-dimensional view of the issue, and that seems to be enough for some. If you can't see beyond raw numbers in respect to COVID-19 cases and deaths, then your idea of the 'greater good' is very different to mine.

I wasn't surprised to see a learner driver and her mum fined for non-essential travel in Victoria. Presumably that fell under the 'greater good' too.

You're going to use the fact that the measures are working, as expected, to say it wasn't a big deal?

One-dimensional is being kind.

 

[Evolved1]

You're going to use the fact that the measures are working, as expected, to say it wasn't a big deal?

One-dimensional is being kind.

The financial, social, mental health, and social liberties costs have been significant already.

If you're a fan of the current approach by our government, keep in mind you'll probably have no easier alternative until a vaccine is developed in the next 18 months or so. Our government has no long term plan outside keeping the curve flat afaict.

I prefer going down the herd immunity route than having 18 months of the status quo tbh. I'd love to see our best minds (as opposed to politicians) explain all options available with potential costs and benefits.

 

[Evolved1]

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I prefer going down the herd immunity route than having 18 months of the status quo tbh. I'd love to see our best minds (as opposed to politicians) explain all options available with potential costs and benefits.

It’s not just politicians...

Australians are at risk from an "explosive resurgence" of COVID-19 if social controls imposed to fight the pandemic are relaxed, top scientific advisers have warned in a new alert on long-term economic shutdowns.

The federal government's expert advisers predicted a surge in hospital admissions over the next fortnight from the spread of the coronavirus but forecast an easing in the pressure over time as the social curbs took effect.


The advice is founded on two scientific papers published on Tuesday after Prime Minister Scott Morrison released official modelling showing hospitals will have enough intensive care beds if the pandemic is contained to its current growth rate.

"What is absolutely clear is that if we relaxed any of the current measures, that would turn into an explosive outbreak driven by community transmission and we would be in a very poor situation very quickly," said University of Melbourne professor James McCaw.

Warning of 'explosive resurgence' of COVID-19 if social controls relaxed

Australians are at risk from a new surge of coronavirus deaths if controls imposed to fight the pandemic are relaxed, top scientific advisers have warned.

www.theage.com.au

 

[owen87]

View attachment 854096

Suicides and Traffic Fatalities aren't contagious.

Imagine how bad the Flu would be without any vaccines available for it though, and FYI the COVID-19 related deaths are now up to ~ 82,000. Rapidly catching up to the influenza there.

 

[CD Xbow]

If anyone from when I was growing up in the 70's had the motza to complain about being put up in a hotel free by the government they would have got pretty short shrift too.

But back in the old days "angry from Balga" had to write a letter to the paper or ring talkback to complain about how everyone else in the world is complaining about people complaining. Or just have a whinge about it to your mates.

Now its right at your fingertips. It was ever thus.

Certainly a big part of it. It gives a voice to very small numbers of people, who in pre-internet days would never have been heard Their voice can be amplified without too much effort and distributed almost instantly across the world. 'Angry from Balga' can now have a wide audience, as I can, adding your thoughts to the argument. The Alt right is enabled by the same technologies, as are the Flat Earthers (who would ever have believed that they would be growing in numbers in the information rich world we live in), every conspiracy theorist and this guy, Tom Barnett



Funny time to be putting this stuff up in the middle of the Covid-19 pandemic.
Technologies are a two edge sword. Disinformation and misinformation come with territory.

I actually don't think people change that much. We remain the same difficult, brilliant, flawed, kind, selfish etc folks we have always been, it really is internet based technologies that make it seem different. Of course our culture changes, because of these technological changes but basically I don't think human nature changes that much.

 

[Number37]

The financial, social, mental health, and social liberties costs have been significant already.

If you're a fan of the current approach by our government, keep in mind you'll probably have no easier alternative until a vaccine is developed in the next 18 months or so. Our government has no long term plan outside keeping the curve flat afaict.

I prefer going down the herd immunity route than having 18 months of the status quo tbh. I'd love to see our best minds (as opposed to politicians) explain all options available with potential costs and benefits.

Herd immunity strategy would require 35,000 ICU beds JUST FOR COVID patients. <---see modelling
We have 2200 ICU beds, with plans to get to ~7000 ICU. <---- see CMO's statements
Not only will THOUSANDS of CoVid patients die unnecessarily, but thousands of other people with other illnesses will die unnecessarily. <--- see modelling
How many of the dead do you think will be healthcare professionals?



What do you think the social, mental health and social liberties cost will be for this herd immunity strategy?

You wanna kill tens of thousands of people, including health professionals, for no reason other than staying at home is too hard for you.
F me you are soft.