Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. Part 2 * CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

[Chief]

Australian Coronavirus Stats

Latest COVID-19 stats from Australia.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[BringBackTorps]

I'm not going over it again and again [But you won't answer my questions!]because it's already been posted and yet here we are, with you either omitting words or presenting highly distilled versions of expert recommendations

Yet you continuously refuse to answer my questions to you (despite multiple requests for you to answer).
Some of these questions highlight that the blood-soaked CCP is, probably, the most brutal & murderous regime in history-some might argue Stalinist Russia deserves that title; some relate to the CCP's covid-19 culpability.

Your cherry-picked quotes & disingenuous answers show you are a communist apologist.
Again, why don't you answer my questions to you in post #1592,2629,4546 etc. above?

And some new questions for you.

1. WHO Director T. Ghebreyesus is claiming much of the attacks on him, re his covid-19 actions, is motivated by racism- "because I am a black man, a negro".
Is he correct?

2. How justified is China in reopening its exotic animal wet markets; & the WHO's support for China in this reopening?

3. Why is the CCP banning China's scientists from publishing openly their research on the origins of covid-19, without prior CCP vetting?
Do you agree with CCP claims the origin of covid-19 was because the US Military introduced a biological weapon in Wuhan?

4. It is certain there will be major international legal/political/diplomatic investigations & actions etc. against the CCP for its covid-19 culpability .
Do you think these investigations & actions etc. are warranted?

Iran is a close ally of China- but its Health Minister K. Jahanpur (post#5358) was "...lamenting its inaccurate data made a bitter joke with the world". Why?

5. Covid-19 was already in Europe & the US before countries closed their borders to China from c. 30.1 onwards- so no one is arguing closures were the sole panacea.
The majority of New York region infections (&US?) came from Europe- not from infected Chinese travellers going to the NY region.

New York coronavirus outbreak originated in Europe, new study finds

A new study from Mount Sinai found that the New York cases of COVID-19 originated from Europe.

abcnews.go.com

But if China had provided much EARLIER warnings (ie long time before 24.1, the date of China's wonderful & brilliant "discovery" it was transmissible human-to-human) of the extreme dangers of covid-19, much EARLIER border closures etc. in other countries would have been a very effective preventative measure.
Do you disagree with this also?

6. Taiwan provided very strong evidence to the WHO, that covid-19 was transmissible human-to -human, on 31.12.
Why did the WHO not act on it, & continue to claim there was no evidence of h-to-h transmission?

7. There is clear evidence that covid-19 was in the Wuhan area from November, China was aware it was extremely contagious & deadly (J. Ma SCMP "over 400 cases" from November-perhaps earlier- to 31.12.19 (perhaps many more). Do you accept the SCMP evidence (secret, leaked Chinese documents) is genuine?

Yet the CCP allowed is citizens to fly all over the world (& for travellers to visit China, then return to their home countries) to spread the pandemic. Why?

The US travel ban on China did not stop the spread of the virus

Being disingenuous again- the China travel ban by the US (& Italy, & other countries) certainly did REDUCE the spread of covid-19.

Your constant deflections, with selective quotes, can't hide the FACT that China (& the WHO) vehemently & disgracefully opposed the travel bans on China- with many (including in the US Democratic Party & other countries) saying falsely the bans were "xenophobic, racist, discriminatory etc.).

 

[JackOutback]

All the experts coming up with these phoney models and graphs predicting death tolls doubling every 2 days until the entire universe is wiped out need to be held accountable when this is over. They saw this situation as their time to shine and get their name in lights. One expert says 1 million dead and makes the front page, so the next expert has to say 2 million dead to get a bigger headline. They got it so wrong in new york

Now there is going to be a great depression that will kill millions thanks to them trying to profit off the panic

Those were worst case scenarios. Now, because governments implemented policies that mitigated those scenarios, you're acting like it wasn't a possibility. It was always going to be the way, if we succeeded, people would argue that everything would have been right and we shouldn't have done anything.

 

[Roby]

Oh plenty, just read about it in the papers and I am set. Normal crackpot stuff.
I’m not the one claiming comprehensive knowledge here brains.
You just keep rowing my boat of ‘who really cares where it came from, it is here.’
Go on, row! And try to keep weird arse posts like the one I quoted to a minimum.

Huh? What?

Just a simple yes or no would've sufficed.

 

[Hawkk]

Those were worst case scenarios. Now, because governments implemented policies that mitigated those scenarios, you're acting like it wasn't a possibility. It was always going to be the way, if we succeeded, people would argue that everything would have been right and we shouldn't have done anything.

Well actually, let's call it for what it is...

They went hard at the modeling with no grasp of the infection spread, the infection lethality or the degree of asytomatic cases. I guess thats inevitable when you have public health officials driving the National Cabinet.

U.S. coronavirus projections miss mark as country ducks doomsday

America appears to be avoiding doomsday coronavirus scenarios — and it’s spurring questions about why the initial numbers were so far off.

www.washingtontimes.com

It’s all good news, as America appears to be avoiding doomsday coronavirus scenarios, but it’s spurring questions about why the initial numbers were so far off.

Pessimists say there was never enough understanding of the disease, and prognosticators and policymakers were operating in the dark, guessing at what was going to happen and using imperfect data to make decisions that could turn out to have been completely wrong.

Others counter that it turns out the country is far better at social distancing than expected and the virus’s spread has slowed because of that.

Experts said both factors were at play.

And for weeks the experts that questioned the science were routinely discredited.

Why do elected officials dismiss positive information about coronavirus pandemic?

Dr. Eran Bendavid and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professors of medicine at Stanford University, published an article in the March 24 edition of The Wall Street Journal, stating the following: “Fear of Covid-19 is based on an estimated mortality rate of 2% to 4% … We believe this estimate is deeply...

www.washingtontimes.com

So now here we are, with the majority of the western world locked down pinning its hopes on a world first safe and successful vaccination for a coronavirus...

If not successful, then what?

If we find a vaccine for COVID-19, it will be the first time ever for coronaviruses

For those pinning their hopes on a COVID-19 vaccine to return life to normal, an Australian expert in vaccine development warns the quest poses unique challenges.

www.abc.net.au

I guess we are lucky we didnt completely fall for the complete lockdown solution like New Zealand but this is the first time in human history that we have probably had the means to contain one of these viruses so I guess its not surprising we've gone for the supression route rather than allowing the virus to do its natural thing.

Unfortunately failing a revolt I cant see the National Cabinet relaxing enough restrictions before too long. It might destroy our economy for decades but when it comes to the political optics no one wants to risk a Northern Italy (even if the average age of death was 78 and 97% had co-mobilities)

 

[owen87]

The problem is; it can be both natural and have escaped from the lab, in a way that is not at all a conspiracy.

But certain posters like to take the lab theory and say therefore man-made, deliberate, cover-up.

It's completely reasonable to be researching viruses in bats given it's known that they were the source of SARS, MERS and Hendra Virus to better understand both what viruses are carried, how they might mutate and how we might protect ourselves or create a vaccine for them. In fact, SARS & MERS have been an ongoing source of study to develop vaccines which is why some have been 80% of the way there and able to be rushed to trials so quickly.

The simplest explanation is that someone(s) at the lab ****ed up their protocols, got infected then visited the wet market, where an environment existed that was crowded, busy, and full of surfaces and moisture that easily allowed this virus to spread.

None of this needs to be a conspiracy, more likely simple stupidity covers it.

 

[Mateyman]

Nope. Posted it many times. I did only include the word ALONE from my second post onward, because it seemed to be flying over the head of some posters (and still is obviously) that my original post was talking about the warnings of complacency in opting for travel bans while neglecting other recommended measures, which is what happened, and is exactly what I was saying in the post you quoted here. You keep trying to reduce it down with every post into something it wasn't and then claiming you don't understand. As I said, go shout at a mirror coz you're arguing with yourself.

It's not just the WHO who don't recommend travel bans be placed on an entire country where an outbreak occurs, it's most experts on infectious disease. It was also the conclusion of the Johns Hopkins Centre for Health Security's Event 201 scenario. People suggest this was some sinister act by the WHO pandering to the CCP, when actually it's a widely made recommendation from leading experts in the field.

The US travel ban on China did not stop the spread of the virus. And the warnings of complacency that may result were correct. Below is a graph normalised for population comparing Germany who didn't institute a travel ban and instead opted to issue a travel advisory (and Lufthansa went on the suspend flights), and the US who went with a full travel ban on the entire country. There are a lot of variables involved in what's going on, but if a travel ban on China was the major factor in a successful response, this graph would look quite different.

View attachment 859245

I'm still really interested to hear how this is a vindication of experts as you claimed? Those experts from the WHO didn't say "don't do a travel ban alone". They said - don't do a travel ban. Waffling on about complacency is really pretty irrelevant. You advise on each intervention in isolation. Nobody says - don't institute a lockdown because it might lead to complacency if the numbers go down and you need to open up again. Obviously there are issues around opening up, but they are dealt with in isolation to the intervention of locking down. Similarly travel bans, in isolation from other measures were clearly helpful. Countries which instituted them were less affected than equivalently positioned countries which did not. It's fairly simple.

Do you think you've come through with some great breakthrough that travel bans alone won't do the job? Again, that's not what the WHO said (while you claimed the experts had been vindicated). As for a communist plot I've never suggested there is anything sinister about it - I have merely commented on the effectiveness of the travel bans. It is blindingly obvious that countries with travel bans have been less affected so the evidence doesn't really suggest that there is good reason to advise against them.

As for your graph it really suggests that the travel ban is substantially helpful. You chose by far one of the least affected European countries (which has a comprehensive testing scheme in place) and compared it to America (who had barely any testing scheme until very recently). The fact that the curves are at all close really suggests how effective the travel ban was. Why don't we compare Germany (a country with no travel ban but good testing) with Australia (a country with a travel ban and good testing? Then we can see how effective the travel ban is. Low and behold, the numbers suggest the travel ban was effective!

 

[tige19]

All the experts coming up with these phoney models and graphs predicting death tolls doubling every 2 days until the entire universe is wiped out need to be held accountable when this is over. They saw this situation as their time to shine and get their name in lights. One expert says 1 million dead and makes the front page, so the next expert has to say 2 million dead to get a bigger headline. They got it so wrong in new york

Now there is going to be a great depression that will kill millions thanks to them trying to profit off the panic

Mate, I know of 1 particular person who is a long term member here and reads this thread and was collectively losing his s**t because of some of the posts from the doomsayers here, a few poster in particular who gave their own "modelling" and predictions and effectively look like complete and total muppets. Anyway, I won't mention who he is (He is fine with me saying this as things have eased that have tempered his anxiety) but he is a terrific lad who has had some struggles and it seemed that a number of posts and posters set him off so I really do agree with what you have said.

 

[Maylandsman]

The problem is; it can be both natural and have escaped from the lab, in a way that is not at all a conspiracy.

But certain posters like to take the lab theory and say therefore man-made, deliberate, cover-up.

It's completely reasonable to be researching viruses in bats given it's known that they were the source of SARS, MERS and Hendra Virus to better understand both what viruses are carried, how they might mutate and how we might protect ourselves or create a vaccine for them. In fact, SARS & MERS have been an ongoing source of study to develop vaccines which is why some have been 80% of the way there and able to be rushed to trials so quickly.

The simplest explanation is that someone(s) at the lab f’ed up their protocols, got infected then visited the wet market, where an environment existed that was crowded, busy, and full of surfaces and moisture that easily allowed this virus to spread.

None of this needs to be a conspiracy, more likely simple stupidity covers it.

Exactly, maybe conspiracy can change with cover up.
Either way it is not unreasonable to say it perhaps emanated from a lab. And it came about due to a balls up, this has been said numerous times. A bat pissed on a lab tech? has been one rumour.
But we aren’t to say it out aloud otherwise you are a crackpot.
Now when this is kept secret, if indeed it was, of course theories, including conspiracy, will abound. Questions will be raised.
The experts will draw their conclusions in time. We will be fed what we need to hear and carry on.
Imagine a society where no one pondered the possibilities and people just called others idiots for they have all the info.
Did Australia turn on our HAARP in Exmouth to combat Corona?

 

[queensberryrules]

Untimely opinions, or Twilight of the Consensus.

Friday reading for the Lockdown Grumps.

We are Currently Not Measuring the Incidence of Coronavirus Diseases, but the Activity of the Specialists Searching for Them - Global Research

The corona hype is not based on any extraordinary public health danger. However, it causes considerable damage to our freedom and personal rights through frivolous and unjustified quarantine measures and restrictions. The images in the media are frightening and the traffic in China’s cities...

www.globalresearch.ca

The Medical Argument Against ‘Stay-At-Home’ Orders

Is there a health care danger associated with our ongoing national confinement?

www.fitsnews.com

'Herd Immunity Is the Only Lasting Solution to the Coronavirus', Says Leading Epidemiologist

In an interview to The Wire, Dr Jayaprakash Muliyil says India has no alternative but to build herd immunity. "A lockdown only buys time, the prime minister opted for an easy choice".

thewire.in

As virus deaths rise, Sweden sticks to 'low-scale' lockdown

STOCKHOLM (AP) — Crowds swarm Stockholm's waterfront, with some people sipping cocktails in the sun. In much of the world, this sort of gathering would be frowned upon or even banned. Not in Sweden. It doesn't worry Anders Tegnell, the country's chief epidemiologist and top strategist in the...

okcfox.com

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[owen87]

Exactly, maybe conspiracy can change with cover up.
Either way it is not unreasonable to say it perhaps emanated from a lab. And it came about due to a balls up, this has been said numerous times. A bat pissed on a lab tech? has been one rumour.
But we aren’t to say it out aloud otherwise you are a crackpot.
Now when this is kept secret, if indeed it was, of course theories, including conspiracy, will abound. Questions will be raised.
The experts will draw their conclusions in time. We will be fed what we need to hear and carry on.
Imagine a society where no one pondered the possibilities and people just called others idiots for they have all the info.
Did Australia turn on our HAARP in Exmouth to combat Corona?

Except instead of accepting simple stupidity, and a cover-up to protect the 'brand', the usual conspiracy theorists convert it in to a deliberate act, man-made virus, then don their tin-foil hats and march their merry way down the path towards their inter-weaved global elite conspiracy tie-ins with the Rothchilds, 9/11, 5G and whatever else they find a way to add in whilst making increasingly tenuous leaps of logic.

Simplest explanation is someone at the lab ****ed up, the market is a popular place for locals to buy food (not even the exotic kind), and the CCP is doing brand protection.

The CCP have fairly consistently obfuscated the facts throughout this situation, because that's exactly what they always do with anything that makes the CCP and brand China look bad.

 

[Mateyman]

All the experts coming up with these phoney models and graphs predicting death tolls doubling every 2 days until the entire universe is wiped out need to be held accountable when this is over. They saw this situation as their time to shine and get their name in lights. One expert says 1 million dead and makes the front page, so the next expert has to say 2 million dead to get a bigger headline. They got it so wrong in new york

Now there is going to be a great depression that will kill millions thanks to them trying to profit off the panic

No expert ever said 1 million people dead in any country with interventions. Those were all without interventions. Just yet another stupid argument that because containment measures have actually worked they're not necessary. You would be complaining that the measures weren't effective and we should just open everything up anyway because of this if the cases were in fact doubling every few days

 

[Hawkk]

No expert ever said 1 million people dead in any country with interventions. Those were all without interventions. Just yet another stupid argument that because containment measures have actually worked they're not necessary. You would be complaining that the measures weren't effective and we should just open everything up anyway because of this if the cases were in fact doubling every few days

So basically, what's the end-game then?

And the science on the infection and fatality rates is definately out

 

[Mateyman]

Well actually, let's call it for what it is...

They went hard at the modeling with no grasp of the infection spread, the infection lethality or the degree of asytomatic cases. I guess thats inevitable when you have public health officials driving the National Cabinet.

U.S. coronavirus projections miss mark as country ducks doomsday

America appears to be avoiding doomsday coronavirus scenarios — and it’s spurring questions about why the initial numbers were so far off.

www.washingtontimes.com

And for weeks the experts that questioned the science were routinely discredited.

Why do elected officials dismiss positive information about coronavirus pandemic?

Dr. Eran Bendavid and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professors of medicine at Stanford University, published an article in the March 24 edition of The Wall Street Journal, stating the following: “Fear of Covid-19 is based on an estimated mortality rate of 2% to 4% … We believe this estimate is deeply...

www.washingtontimes.com

So now here we are, with the majority of the western world locked down pinning its hopes on a world first safe and successful vaccination for a coronavirus...

If not successful, then what?

If we find a vaccine for COVID-19, it will be the first time ever for coronaviruses

For those pinning their hopes on a COVID-19 vaccine to return life to normal, an Australian expert in vaccine development warns the quest poses unique challenges.

www.abc.net.au

I guess we are lucky we didnt completely fall for the complete lockdown solution like New Zealand but this is the first time in human history that we have probably had the means to contain one of these viruses so I guess its not surprising we've gone for the supression route rather than allowing the virus to do its natural thing.

Unfortunately failing a revolt I cant see the National Cabinet relaxing enough restrictions before too long. It might destroy our economy for decades but when it comes to the political optics no one wants to risk a Northern Italy (even if the average age of death was 78 and 97% had co-mobilities)

If not successful then you can always get herd immunity later on. There's no guarantees in this in general. Much as you aren't guaranteed a vaccine there is no guarantee you will actually achieve herd immunity either - the virus may simply mutate. Also I have significant doubts the case fatality rate rate is much below 1% all things told - otherwise it would be almost impossible for a country like South Korea to control the outbreak as they would only be quarantining a fraction of the cases

 

[Mateyman]

So basically, what's the end-game then?

And the science on the infection and fatality rates is definately out

Endgame: life as normal with limited international travel for a year to 18 months. See what happens at that point with more information. Quite likely we have a vaccine. If it seems like we won't start moving towards herd immunity if that seems reasonable. Where is this science? The antibody trials are quite unconvincing as it's not at all clear how accurate the antibody tests are

 

[owen87]

So basically, what's the end-game then?

Buy time to find a reliable treatment methodology, understand how the virus works and effects the body, and know more about how lethal it really is.

That's all likely to occur before the 12 - 18 months it will take for a vaccine to be available.

Somewhere like Australia looks like it might be able to eradicate the virus completely within our borders in addition to the above.

There's not nearly enough information to know if herd immunity will really be a viable strategy, or whether it will lead to mass fatalities.

 

[Monkey King]

Yet you continuously refuse to answer my questions to you (despite multiple requests for you to answer).

Yup. And I ignore your posts too. Why? Because you're disingenuous and not open to rational discussion.

When I did answer your questions before, you wouldn't bother even addressing my responses, just shoot off another dozen questions, to which you also aren't interested in a response to, but already think you know the answer and present it as a smoking gun, not a question.

I mean look at the emotive way in which you post, "the WHO vehemently & disgracefully opposed the travel bans on China". I've just got through pointing out they've never recommended a travel ban on any country in their history and nor do most experts; the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security had a round table at their Event 201 scenario conference that concluded upon the same recommendation. These are experts who've dedicated their life to answering questions like this and you're just a little person who likely knows nothing about this stuff, sitting back throwing s**t at these people from behind a keyboard because you're grumpy about a virus.

 

[Mateyman]

Buy time to find a reliable treatment methodology, understand how the virus works and effects the body, and know more about how lethal it really is.

That's all likely to occur before the 12 - 18 months it will take for a vaccine to be available.

Somewhere like Australia looks like it might be able to eradicate the virus completely within our borders in addition to the above.

There's not nearly enough information to know if herd immunity will really be a viable strategy, or whether it will lead to mass fatalities.

Or mutation of the virus etc. Also far too early to know the long term damage the virus does to the lungs and body - e.g. those scans of survivors' lungs from Wuhan. Could cause lasting damage like Polio even in some proportion of those who survive, in which case it would be a disaster

 

[Maylandsman]

Except instead of accepting simple stupidity, and a cover-up to protect the 'brand', the usual conspiracy theorists convert it in to a deliberate act, man-made virus, then don their tin-foil hats and march their merry way down the path towards their inter-weaved global elite conspiracy tie-ins with the Rothchilds, 9/11, 5G and whatever else they find a way to add in whilst making increasingly tenuous leaps of logic.

Yeh well I ain’t heading down that track. There is absurd and there is perfectly reasonable.
And to be honest with you I couldn’t care a less where it came from, something needs to be fixed and whether it is wet markets cutting out selling exotic animals and improving hygiene/butchering processes or a lab in Wuhan needs to improve protocol it matters little right now. It will when the dust settles.
And this is only just scratching the surface of what needs to be fixed...questions will be asked of all countries and their leaders who have mishandled the pandemic and ignored advice and acted to late. China is not blameless but that doesn’t get others off the hook. I’m not into this China bashing just as much as I don’t like reading stories that China is mistreating their African population and other foreigners.
When this comes to its conclusion there will be political and geopolitical fallout. And the Piper will make sure they all pay if enough of us are awake.
Anyway we keep battling away to try and make heads or tails of this.
Stay safe.

 

[lily of laguna]

The problem is; it can be both natural and have escaped from the lab, in a way that is not at all a conspiracy.

But certain posters like to take the lab theory and say therefore man-made, deliberate, cover-up.

It's completely reasonable to be researching viruses in bats given it's known that they were the source of SARS, MERS and Hendra Virus to better understand both what viruses are carried, how they might mutate and how we might protect ourselves or create a vaccine for them. In fact, SARS & MERS have been an ongoing source of study to develop vaccines which is why some have been 80% of the way there and able to be rushed to trials so quickly.

The simplest explanation is that someone(s) at the lab f’ed up their protocols, got infected then visited the wet market, where an environment existed that was crowded, busy, and full of surfaces and moisture that easily allowed this virus to spread.

None of this needs to be a conspiracy, more likely simple stupidity covers it.

Well said

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Hawkk]

Or mutation of the virus etc. Also far too early to know the long term damage the virus does to the lungs and body - e.g. those scans of survivors' lungs from Wuhan. Could cause lasting damage like Polio even in some proportion of those who survive, in which case it would be a disaster

So keep everything locked up until it’s eliminated?

A repression on mental health facilities, elective surgery, dental, GP visits (instrumental in early diagnosis of disease)?

Too bad if you are a victim of Domestic Violence or one of the poor suckers that could be confined to the long term unemployment scrap heap. I mean the long term impact of that alone could be many multitudes worse than a virus that at least in the Western European context has a median mortality amongst the elderly and those with two or more co-mobilities.

Whilst the points you make are plausible it is also true that the level of infection and the observed mortality rates have over estimated the impact of the virus in overwhelming health systems (even with the shelter at place lockdowns the CDC anticipated substantially higher admissions)

And if we are relying on vaccines (which may or may not ever come) or treaments (another crab shot) we could be in a lot of trouble.

I’m not sure how the g20 took the little Aussie battler telling the powers that be to take a six month economic hibernation but I guess the reality is that our lock down and response will be inadvertently tied to the USA, UK, China, Japan, German (etc) recovery...

Sovereignty is great but the reality is that the ANZAC’s are small players in a global context.

When they ramp up again so will we, whether that be by choice or kicking and screaming.

That’s my take anyway...

 

[NoobPie]

Well actually, let's call it for what it is...

They went hard at the modeling with no grasp of the infection spread, the infection lethality or the degree of asytomatic cases. I guess thats inevitable when you have public health officials driving the National Cabinet.

U.S. coronavirus projections miss mark as country ducks doomsday

America appears to be avoiding doomsday coronavirus scenarios — and it’s spurring questions about why the initial numbers were so far off.

www.washingtontimes.com

And for weeks the experts that questioned the science were routinely discredited.

Why do elected officials dismiss positive information about coronavirus pandemic?

Dr. Eran Bendavid and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professors of medicine at Stanford University, published an article in the March 24 edition of The Wall Street Journal, stating the following: “Fear of Covid-19 is based on an estimated mortality rate of 2% to 4% … We believe this estimate is deeply...

www.washingtontimes.com

So now here we are, with the majority of the western world locked down pinning its hopes on a world first safe and successful vaccination for a coronavirus...

If not successful, then what?

If we find a vaccine for COVID-19, it will be the first time ever for coronaviruses

For those pinning their hopes on a COVID-19 vaccine to return life to normal, an Australian expert in vaccine development warns the quest poses unique challenges.

www.abc.net.au

I guess we are lucky we didnt completely fall for the complete lockdown solution like New Zealand but this is the first time in human history that we have probably had the means to contain one of these viruses so I guess its not surprising we've gone for the supression route rather than allowing the virus to do its natural thing.

Unfortunately failing a revolt I cant see the National Cabinet relaxing enough restrictions before too long. It might destroy our economy for decades but when it comes to the political optics no one wants to risk a Northern Italy (even if the average age of death was 78 and 97% had co-mobilities)

The washington times makes the Australian look centrist

New York, Northern Italy, London etc have "flattened the curve" through locking down and introducing social distancing. You need to be seriously lacking in humanity to not observe what has happened in those places as a humanitarian disaster. You need to be seriously innumerate or cognitively dissonant to not acknowledge that lifting the lid on this will see explosions in every place that has slowed the spread through these measures

Australia and New Zealand are in the best position of any Western countries, whichever you think is taking the best approach. Either outcome - elimination of "effective eradication with industrial test and trace capability" - in 2 or three months of more "lock down" is far far far better on both public health and economic grounds than anything available to to the europeans or the north americans

If there is no vaccine (or effective treatment) then likely the only other end point of this is global eradication. An enormous task no doubt which will require a massive step change in the resources of wealthy countries for years to come. Essentially the governments of the world choosing to shift substantial resources to this task

On this note I don't even know what you mean by "destroy the economy for decades"? New Zealand stopping non essential construction and manufacturing for a couple of months is going to destroy their economy for decades? Can you actually explain how that is going to play out because I suspect you may just be shooting off some received wisdom.

 

[NoobPie]

If you are ignoring my posts, then how do you know what I have written in them?


Incorrect.

I, & others, have demolished your (& CCP & WHO) opposition to the travel bans. Bans are clearly effective, but other measures are also required to minimise the covid-19 spread.
There are very large nos. of experts around the world who advocate travel bans to minimise the spread of covid-19, as well as other preventative measures. AFAIK, nearly very country has some travel bans.
The WHO will be called to account.

Your refusal to answer my questions to you today in post# 6001, expose you: communist apologist.
Similarly your refusal in my posts #1592,2629,4546

Your feeble & cavalier CCP "explanation/justification" for the deaths of up to c. 60 million Chinese in the CCP-induced early 1960's famine was a disgrace.

In a democracy, however, we generally allow people to absurd/"unsanctioned" views- not in communist countries.

Hey BBT are you from a Democratic Labour Party family by any chance?

 

[NoobPie]

Professor Kelly defended China against accusations of withholding information early in the pandemic and indicated strong support for the World Health Organisation, after US President Donald Trump withdrew US funding.

"I have previously commended China for the openness at the beginning of the situation and we have certainly been able to give a lot of the information that came out of China in the early days," he said.

"That has been fantastic that we had information early on about the disease how severe it was, what were the treatments that worked and those that didn't ... We are looking closely at China now about what happens now that they have gone through the epidemic and starting to reopen things."

The coronavirus "is transmitted is from person to person, so, where it originally came from is not that important," Professor Kelly said.

He said a financially robust and supported World Health Organization was "absolutely crucial" to efforts to eliminate COVID-19.

Professor Kelly said he supported the WHO despite its "chequered history" on some issues, including its perceived "closeness" to China and reluctance early on to call the novel coronavirus sweeping the globe a pandemic "when it clearly was".

"But the World Health Organisation is a crucial part of the United Nations and the global response to the pandemic and it should continue to be part of the mission of the WHO," he said.

"They cannot do that work, particularly in middle-income countries who are likely to be severely affected [without adequate] funding."

 

[compact72]

Anybody looked into the "Gilead Sciences" treatment?

 

[Hawkk]

The washington times makes the Australian look centrist

New York, Northern Italy, London etc have "flattened the curve" through locking down and introducing social distancing. You need to be seriously lacking in humanity to not observe what has happened in those places as a humanitarian disaster. You need to be seriously innumerate or cognitively dissonant to not acknowledge that lifting the lid on this will see explosions in every place that has slowed the spread through these measures

Australia and New Zealand are in the best position of any Western countries, whichever you think is taking the best approach. Either outcome - elimination of "effective eradication with industrial test and trace capability" - in 2 or three months of more "lock down" is far far far better on both public health and economic grounds than anything available to to the europeans or the north americans

If there is no vaccine (or effective treatment) then likely the only other end point of this is global eradication. An enormous task no doubt which will require a massive step change in the resources of wealthy countries for years to come. Essentially the governments of the world choosing to shift substantial resources to this task

On this note I don't even know what you mean by "destroy the economy for decades"? New Zealand stopping non essential construction and manufacturing for a couple of months is going to destroy their economy for decades? Can you actually explain how that is going to play out because I suspect you may just be shooting off some received wisdom.

Not sure where you I said ‘destroy the economy for decades’ (well not in this post anyway) but you do raise some valid points.

But what of the public health officials using redundant data to project estimates for infection and mortality.

Some of us have been skeptical about the modelling data for weeks and yet here we are...

With respect to New Zealand the stage 4 lock down has essentially brought economic activity in that country to a halt. And yet the infection rate is comparable, if not worse than Australia’s with stage 2 and 3 restrictions.

Good thing the New Zealand prime minister, who has press conferences for children in her pyjamas, took a 20 per cent payout.

But that’s neither here nor there (may or may not be a tad bias )