List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[BlueJet]

i don’t feel comfortable paying big time for a player that is (1) on the slow slide (even if he is an in and under player) and (2) does not play at a high standard consistently. Also, losing your captaincy in your prime footy age raises questions marks. Is it clear why he lost captaincy?

He does, the only time that he hasn't has been when he's impacted by injury.
We need outside run of course, as do all sides but I think at times it's easy to get seduced by the pretty types but being able to consistently get hands on it around the stoppage come finals time is essential.
The market will dictate to us regarding who is actually available and at what cost but we're in no position to knock back a gun with (hopefully) plenty of tread left on the tyres. (see: Crouch, Wines, Williams)

As for losing the captaincy, I wouldn't know for certain but hurting himself water-skiing & having his father shopping him around wouldn't have helped his cause.

 

[Gethelred]

Of course they would want more. And so they should. On his day he is a gun. Leadership qualities and all that jazz...

They would either want a top 5 pick and a 2nd round pick or more than likely 2 picks in the range of 6-15. I for one am not keen on both scenarios for Wines.

To me, Brad Crouch as a FA along with papley for a 1st sounds right on the money. Im extremely keen on Zac Williams but we all know the AFL wont let players from there leave as easily as they once did.

Wines just doesn't compute in my mind with the position we are in towards the back end of the rebuild.

The way I see it, if the list size reduction goes ahead, the situation you outline Port asking for above is a win; we don't have to make the space for 2 draftees, we get in a leader and a hardnut that can earn his own ball. We also don't have to delist any of the speculative players we've taken in previous years, or any of the decent or developing talent we've already gotten in house.

I'll say it again, for good measure; we've got all the talent in the world sitting on the list at the moment. While it could be good/bad or otherwise, we need to see what those players have got in a winning team. We need these players to begin to develop more complex stoppage setups, and to feed those talented talls we have ahead of the ball, take advantage of our contested markers. We need to make our first assault on the top 8 of the ladder, because it's in how a team learns from that experience which determines that team's success later on.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

We need these players to begin to develop more complex stoppage setups, and to feed those talented talls we have ahead of the ball, take advantage of our contested markers. We need to make our first assault on the top 8 of the ladder, because it's in how a team learns from that experience which determines that team's success later on.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

We've only lost once this year, I reckon our list management is going very nicely..

 

[Manhattanite]

i don’t feel comfortable paying big time for a player that is (1) on the slow slide (even if he is an in and under player) and (2) does not play at a high standard consistently. Also, losing your captaincy in your prime footy age raises questions marks. Is it clear why he lost captaincy?

From what I recall reading, Wines demanded the captaincy as part of his last re-signing and the Club eventually agreed but the players wanted Jonas so they made them Co-captains. That didn’t work out so well so Wines had to lose it. My guess is he was shopped around prior to losing it because he knew he would lose the captaincy.

It doesn’t make Wines look great - but he’s a very good player who has stepped up in Finals and he would immediately be our third best mid and would mean the last mid in our team is better than whom we currently have. Plus I don’t think we would have to pay as much for him now. I doubt the Power want him on their list and our main competition for him will be the Bombers so if we get him to pick us early on we may be able to close it before a bidding war erupts.


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[Sharks On A Plane]

It doesn’t make Wines look great - but he’s a very good player who has stepped up in Finals and he would immediately be our third best mid and would mean the last mid in our team is better than whom we currently have. Plus I don’t think we would have to pay as much for him now. I doubt the Power want him on their list and our main competition for him will be the Bombers so if we get him to pick us early on we may be able to close it before a bidding war erupts.

You could have almost written this word-for-word about Brock McLean when we recruited him.

Just like Brock I feel like Wines could easily turn out overpriced, slow and overpaid.

 

[Bluebag13]

You could have almost written this word-for-word about Brock McLean when we recruited him.

Just like Brock I feel like Wines could easily turn out overpriced, slow and overpaid.

Brock McLean and Oliver Wines AFL Stats Comparison

Brock McLean and Oliver Wines AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Was hoping that there would be a bit more info on brock especially around contested ball.

 

[La Dispute]

You could have almost written this word-for-word about Brock McLean when we recruited him.

Just like Brock I feel like Wines could easily turn out overpriced, slow and overpaid.

The parallels actually are quite uncanny. Dominating finals at a young age, physically identical.

The problem with someone like Wines is if the pace they do have drops off even marginally it could quite seriously end their career. If he was free then we could take on that risk, but I just don't think he's worth a first round draft pick.

 

[BlueJet]

You could have almost written this word-for-word about Brock McLean when we recruited him.

Just like Brock I feel like Wines could easily turn out overpriced, slow and overpaid.

I respect that concern,
IMO the risk is reduced by the following:
1) Wines is an in & under player, pace is less important for him than McLean who was more of a general accumulator.
2) Wines provides more positional flexibility than McLean, he like Cripps can provide a mismatch forward of the ball.
3) happy to be corrected but Wines doesn't have the same history of lower leg injuries that a Brock or Daisy had at the time of recruitment.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I respect that concern,
IMO the risk is reduced by the following:
1) Wines is an in & under player, pace is less important for him than McLean who was more of a general accumulator.
2) Wines provides more positional flexibility than McLean, he like Cripps can provide a mismatch forward of the ball.
3) happy to be corrected but Wines doesn't have the same history of lower leg injuries that a Brock or Daisy had at the time of recruitment.

That's fair. I will say though that like McLean's proved to be, I'm almost certain that Wines' best football is behind him.

And he is hence not worth the first round pick that Port will demand (although who knows how draft picks will be valued given current circumstances).

 

[Jeremias]

I am torn on the Wines issue - I see both sides of the argument, and I find myself agreeing with both.

I think he's a very good footballer and would be a good fit but he will cost plenty and I am not sure the price is worth paying.

Ultimately I'm going to be happy if he's wearing navy blue in 2021 but I won't be overly disappointed if he's not.

I think we can use our picks better - I see Papley as a far greater need and better fit for us going forward than Wines.

 

[BigFrizz36]

That's fair. I will say though that like McLean's proved to be, I'm almost certain that Wines' best football is behind him.

And he is hence not worth the first round pick that Port will demand (although who knows how draft picks will be valued given current circumstances).

My opinion is that Wines is a considerably better footballer than McLean. The margin is significant. He would also make our midfield a fair bit stronger. My concern is that he plays a fairly similar game to Crippa and not as well (obviously). Whereas it would give us more flexibility to play Crippa up forward at times I'm not too sure that we could play them both in the midfield together for large periods of time. If I was * I would be throwing the kitchen sink at him.

 

[smashbox gill]

My opinion is that Wines is a considerably better footballer than McLean. The margin is significant. He would also make our midfield a fair bit stronger. My concern is that he plays a fairly similar game to Crippa and not as well (obviously). Whereas it would give us more flexibility to play Crippa up forward at times I'm not too sure that we could play them both in the midfield together for large periods of time. If I was * I would be throwing the kitchen sink at him.

I think Wines value is around pick 10. He’s not the same value as say Shiels or Brad Hill or the like. If he wants out I think a mid first should do it.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

If I was * I would be throwing the kitchen sink at him.

Yep. Such a logical match. Might prove an enjoyable deathride too.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Wishlist:

Tom Papley


Jack Petruccelle


Jackson Hately


Jye Caldwell


Speed, speed, speed!

We have many other facets sorted but what i think we need to become dangerous is much more speed and quality/talented kids that are still young but have been in the system a couple of years, ready to explode.

I would be disappointed if we took a pick outside the top 5 to the draft (obviously depending where we end the season...) Papley is a must. Petruccelle will be a speedy, hard to match up on forward with tricks. Hately and Caldwell, just get these 2 in before they become elite.

Hately looks ready to step up and play midfield, Caldwell a little behind him.

Cripps and Walsh are/will be stars! We need Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien, Stocker, Cuningham and Fisher to go to the next level. Adding Hately and Caldwell to the mix and i think we have many years ahead of exciting football.

 

[BlueJet]

My opinion is that Wines is a considerably better footballer than McLean. The margin is significant. He would also make our midfield a fair bit stronger. My concern is that he plays a fairly similar game to Crippa and not as well (obviously). Whereas it would give us more flexibility to play Crippa up forward at times I'm not too sure that we could play them both in the midfield together for large periods of time. If I was * I would be throwing the kitchen sink at him.

I appreciate the concern over there being a lack of pace in the side but with Ed retiring in coming years & question marks over Kennedy & Silvagni long term - I'm confident that Wines would fit nicely in our side, provided that we don't go out of our way to secure more one paced types.
For examples sake, if our side did the following for r1 2021:

In:
Wines
Caldwell
Petrucelle

Out:
Ed
Kennedy
JSOS

It would upgrade the side significantly at the stoppage but also provide more run than our existing side.


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[Team DJ]

As a south Australian who sees wines more weeks than not.

He is an absolute bull. A monster around stoppage.

However I am faster and a better kick than him. And unfortunately, those two attributes do not improve with age.

I dare say a player like Ollie with the games he's already played at a young age. He's on the decline rather than peaking

 

[DangerousD]

Wishlist:

Tom Papley


Jack Petruccelle


Jackson Hately


Jye Caldwell


Speed, speed, speed!

We have many other facets sorted but what i think we need to become dangerous is much more speed and quality/talented kids that are still young but have been in the system a couple of years, ready to explode.

I would be disappointed if we took a pick outside the top 5 to the draft (obviously depending where we end the season...) Papley is a must. Petruccelle will be a speedy, hard to match up on forward with tricks. Hately and Caldwell, just get these 2 in before they become elite.

Hately looks ready to step up and play midfield, Caldwell a little behind him.

Cripps and Walsh are/will be stars! We need Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien, Stocker, Cuningham and Fisher to go to the next level. Adding Hately and Caldwell to the mix and i think we have many years ahead of exciting football.

Lets be realistic, I doubt we could get all four, so who are your two to concentrate on?

As Caldwell and Hately we’re both 1st round picks, a top 5 pick might be enough to secure them as a pair, with some swaps at the end.

Papley it seems will cost a pick around 10 at least.

Petrucelli would also cost a 2nd rounder.

Any concerns about being too tall by picking up Hately? I was against picking up Kemp due to an already tall midfield, so I’m not sure how I feel about going after him,

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Lets be realistic, I doubt we could get all four, so who are your two to concentrate on?

As Caldwell and Hately we’re both 1st round picks, a top 5 pick might be enough to secure them as a pair, with some swaps at the end.

Papley it seems will cost a pick around 10 at least.

Petrucelli would also cost a 2nd rounder.

Any concerns about being too tall by picking up Hately? I was against picking up Kemp due to an already tall midfield, so I’m not sure how I feel about going after him,

If i was choosing just 2 it would be Papley and Hately. I have zero concerns about us being too tall in the midfield tbh. I feel Hately would play a lot of midfield minutes but he can also go forward and prove to be a problem match up.

I would actually expect if Hately does choose us, he would cost something like Setterfield did with a 2nd rounder. Im not sure giving up a top 10 pick if we could package both Hately and Caldwell would still be the right thing to do.

We now require speed and quality to come through the door. Other than Papley, none of the other 3 i have mentioned are going to require a high draft pick.

If we could have a team with mids such as Cripps, Walsh, Martin, Hately, Caldwell, Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp etc running around and improving year by year, we will have a dominant midfield very soon. Clearly young, but super talented and i believe those boys will improve very quickly with the right guidance.

 

[DangerousD]

If i was choosing just 2 it would be Papley and Hately. I have zero concerns about us being too tall in the midfield tbh. I feel Hately would play a lot of midfield minutes but he can also go forward and prove to be a problem match up.

I would actually expect if Hately does choose us, he would cost something like Setterfield did with a 2nd rounder. Im not sure giving up a top 10 pick if we could package both Hately and Caldwell would still be the right thing to do.

We now require speed and quality to come through the door. Other than Papley, none of the other 3 i have mentioned are going to require a high draft pick.

If we could have a team with mids such as Cripps, Walsh, Martin, Hately, Caldwell, Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp etc running around and improving year by year, we will have a dominant midfield very soon. Clearly young, but super talented and i believe those boys will improve very quickly with the right guidance.

I was of the opinion Setters was cheap as he had barely played at all across his two seasons at the Giants and would take a bit of time to come good, which he has. I don't see any issues with Hately in this regard.

Whilst you and many don't see an issue with a tall midfield or a tall team, i hope the club and those in charge are talking about it, if they don't see an issue then, im happy, they are the experts.

I can't help be concerned by a midfield of Cripps 194cm, Setters 192cm, Kemp 193cm, Hately 190cm (slightly shorter than i thought), rightly or wrongly, i feel not much thought is going in to, how it all works in a few years time or how it ties in with the rest of the side, considering we have two big forwards, Gov, SOS and a resting ruck. The balance just seems off to me.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I was of the opinion Setters was cheap as he had barely played at all across his two seasons at the Giants and would take a bit of time to come good, which he has. I don't see any issues with Hately in this regard.

Whilst you and many don't see an issue with a tall midfield or a tall team, i hope the club and those in charge are talking about it, if they don't see an issue then, im happy, they are the experts.

I can't help be concerned by a midfield of Cripps 194cm, Setters 192cm, Kemp 193cm, Hately 190cm (slightly shorter than i thought), rightly or wrongly, i feel not much thought is going in to, how it all works in a few years time or how it ties in with the rest of the side, considering we have two big forwards, Gov, SOS and a resting ruck. The balance just seems off to me.

Walsh is 184cms, Martin 186cms, Fisher 179cm, Dow 187cm, Stocker 184cm, O'Brien 185cm.

You have picked our 3 tallest mids and a guy who isnt on our list (hopefully he is). Cripps just hands down beats whoever plays on him, setters is 3 years in and Kemp who wont play this year. Past those 3, we aren't a tall midfield and if Walsh is in there more often than not, i don't see a problem. If all 3 were Cripps height and age i might be concerned, but i see nothing wrong with that spread in age with their height.

I must admit though, our forward line is a concern and maybe with Curnow, McKay, McGovern (who is only 191cms) and Jack, we might be too slow. But McKay and Curnow (pray his knee gets back to 100%) arent just your lumbering talls. Thats why i am keen to get pace into the team. Papley please... I dont see Hately as a slow tall also, to me he's a slightly taller mid which i see no issue with.

If guys can kick, run and play smart, i dont think a few cms has too much to do with it

 

[ferrisb]

Any concerns about being too tall by picking up Hately? I was against picking up Kemp due to an already tall midfield, so I’m not sure how I feel about going after him,

Just play Fisher in the middle.

That'll bring the average height back down to normal

 

[ferrisb]

If guys can kick, run and play smart, i dont think a few cms has too much to do with it

Yeah, it's not about size. It's about speed and technique....

.... And as for football....

 

[Cripptonite]

Not a huge fan of acquiring developing young talent from other clubs at this stage of our rebuild (players like Caldwell/Hately etc). I believe they will just add to our large mix of developing players and force some out of the best 22 stunting their development. Obviously competition within the list is healthy but we would be using significant draft capital and salary cap space on players who are playing reserves consistently.

IMO we go for established proven guns at this stage of our rebuild who will boost us from an average team to a contending team. Jack Martin and Papley are a good start. One more gun mid and we will be in a good position. Round out the remaining list spots with draftees on cheap salary.

Then if two or three of Dow, Cunners, Kemp, Philp, Stocker, Setters, LOB, JSOS reach their potential we will have a serious midfield.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Not a huge fan of acquiring developing young talent from other clubs at this stage of our rebuild (players like Caldwell/Hately etc). I believe they will just add to our large mix of developing players and force some out of the best 22 stunting their development. Obviously competition within the list is healthy but we would be using significant draft capital and salary cap space on players who are playing reserves consistently.

IMO we go for established proven guns at this stage of our rebuild who will boost us from an average team to a contending team. Jack Martin and Papley are a good start. One more gun mid and we will be in a good position. Round out the remaining list spots with draftees on cheap salary.

Then if two or three of Dow, Cunners, Kemp, Philp, Stocker, Setters, LOB, JSOS reach their potential we will have a serious midfield.

Who would you target and what do you think it will cost us?