Preview Rnd 2 - Carlton v Melbourne Saturday 13th June 4.35PM @ Etihad

[David Sylvian]

Vanilla gets a bad wrap...… pour a bit of chocolate sauce on it and presto …..Jack Martin
Our most exciting mature age recruit since Judd and nothing vanilla about his debut.

So excited about him building on that. Throw Eddie in the mix and we have a much more potent look about us. (banana and crushed nuts on top of the sauce!)

Also think Mr. Moustache , McGov will show all this year he is ready to step up and become a top liner. (Should be 100% now and raring to go)
For the first time in years our forward line looks dangerous even without Charlie.
When he comes back next season he will be the FLAKE chocolate bar in the middle of the cone

Sweet

 

[murphster]

Martin getting a scan after copping a knee to the body at training today, they said he still should play Rd2 but let’s hope nothings broken (ribs) or bruised (kidneys) he looked real sore when walking to get the scan.

 

[haveago]

Marchbank hasn't been the same since he broke his neck....no surprise really but confidence will come in time and I hope he can get back to the gun player he was looking at becoming during this season.

Setters on the other hand has shown glimpses only. His size is enticing and he has now had the time to get over the knee. He needs to deliver . I think D.T. will back him in for a few games and I hope he kills it.

 

[Michael Jezz]

You say Stocker hasn't shown anything yet ( I thought he held his own in the few games he got before being injured) and then you rate Philp and Ramsay above him.....strange

Stockers first 5 games better than Dows first 40. He can tackle, win his own ball and a decent kick

 

[HBF]

Martin getting a scan after copping a knee to the body at training today, they said he still should play Rd2 but let’s hope nothings broken (ribs) or bruised (kidneys) he looked real sore when walking to get the scan.

Have everything crossed he is good to go. Guess we still have a week and a half until we play the Dees.

 

[BlueJet]

So you think we need an inside bull.
This in my opinion is a popular misconception amongst supporters. Dont think we struggle in the clearances. In fact against Richmond without the services of Kreuzer we beat them in the clearances,disposals, inside fifties and marks.

Most tellingly their disposal efficiency stood at 80.1% outs 68.9%. This is reflected in the goal assists in their favour 12 goals to 5. A 7 goal advantage.
They were more effective in rebounding out of defence 42 to 29 which may have something to do with our lack of leg speed. They recorded 5 bounces to our none. We were relatively even in tackling inside our respective forward 50 yet around the ground we were smashed 52 tackles to 23. Lack of leg speed or inability to run back may be holding us back.

Dirk

Where they beat us, particularly early, was that they were able to take the ball cleanly from stoppage - we were a lot more scrappy as we transitioned the ball from inside to outside and were a helluva lot less decisive in our ball movement.
While our stat line may look nice, I don't believe that anyone looking closely at our work around the contest and thinks that we're exceptional in this area defensively or offensively.
Do we require an inside bull? Not particularly, given how many slow players we carry at present but if a Wines were to be available we'd be foolish to not at least enquire about Ports asking price as he represents a significant upgrade on those we are presently hoping will step up to fill this role (Kennedy, Setterfield and JSOS).
Ideally though the growth will come from within with those noted earlier along with Dow, Fisher & Stocker stepping up to become quality mids for us - whether they're capable of it though, remains to be seen.

 

[Jeremias]

Stockers first 5 games better than Dows first 40. He can tackle, win his own ball and a decent kick

No, they weren't. There's a fair bit of recency bias going on in your post IMO.

No doubt Dow struggled enormously over the second half of the 2019 season. I'm putting that down to a bit of fatigue, but mostly due to being played out of position thus far under Teague.

He's not a forward and he never will be. He's a midfielder, and I believe he'll be an excellent one. He has played some pretty decent footy in the guts thus far in his very young career.

His contested work is excellent for a player of his size and experience. Stocker is certainly the better kick and has the stronger body, but we haven't seen the inside ball winning ability from him at senior level yet. Dow is clearly ahead on that front.

 

[BlueBlood15]

Where they beat us, particularly early, was that they were able to take the ball cleanly from stoppage - we were a lot more scrappy as we transitioned the ball from inside to outside and were a helluva lot less decisive in our ball movement.
While our stat line may look nice, I don't believe that anyone looking closely at our work around the contest and thinks that we're exceptional in this area defensively or offensively.
Do we require an inside bull? Not particularly, given how many slow players we carry at present but if a Wines were to be available we'd be foolish to not at least enquire about Ports asking price as he represents a significant upgrade on those we are presently hoping will step up to fill this role (Kennedy, Setterfield and JSOS).
Ideally though the growth will come from within with those noted earlier along with Dow, Fisher & Stocker stepping up to become quality mids for us - whether they're capable of it though, remains to be seen.

Agree re your analysis of our work at stoppages and contests. We’re good at getting first hands to the ball but then from that point, there doesn’t seem to be much method - just hack it forward. This is where I look to John Barker. Has been the “stoppages” coach for a couple of years now. Seems to be a pretty narrow role and there doesn’t appear to be a lot of drilled in method. Ideally from the first possession we would look to release a player in space running towards goal. This may require one or multiple handballs but that’s what the good teams do. They ping it around by hand until a player is released into space running towards goal who can either lower their eyes and honour the hit up lead or kick long to the advantage of the forwards.

I remember seeing a really good clip of 5 centre bounces from a game we played against Richmond in 2019. Unfortunately I can’t find it anywhere. Anyway, basically they sat off and let us take first possession and then would pounce on us, forcing an errant kick or handball. They then gained possession off the turnover, pinged the ball around by handball and launched an attack forward. However, we should remember they’ve been the best team over the past 3-4 years so we’re comparinh ourselves to the best. It’s an area I think we can improve and, once we do, we’ll be so much more potent and able to put our periods of dominance / momentum onto the scoreboard.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Agree re your analysis of our work at stoppages and contests. We’re good at getting first hands to the ball but then from that point, there doesn’t seem to be much method - just hack it forward. This is where I look to John Barker. Has been the “stoppages” coach for a couple of years now. Seems to be a pretty narrow role and there doesn’t appear to be a lot of drilled in method. Ideally from the first possession we would look to release a player in space running towards goal. This may require one or multiple handballs but that’s what the good teams do. They ping it around by hand until a player is released into space running towards goal who can either lower their eyes and honour the hit up lead or kick long to the advantage of the forwards.

I remember seeing a really good clip of 5 centre bounces from a game we played against Richmond in 2019. Unfortunately I can’t find it anywhere. Anyway, basically they sat off and let us take first possession and then would pounce on us, forcing an errant kick or handball. They then gained possession off the turnover, pinged the ball around by handball and launched an attack forward. However, we should remember they’ve been the best team over the past 3-4 years so we’re comparinh ourselves to the best. It’s an area I think we can improve and, once we do, we’ll be so much more potent and able to put our periods of dominance / momentum onto the scoreboard.

I'm starting to really, really enjoy your posts BB15.
The way I'm wired, I'm sure it probably won't last but where the hell have you been?

 

[TheKITC]

A bit of talk around Jacky boy, I wouldn't mind seeing him been used as a bit of a swiss army knife in the side myself personally. I know some people say moving players around all the time gives them no consistency, but I get the impression it can be positive to keep some players focused and on their toes, perhaps JS is one of them? He looked a fraction stale as that medium forward and does have a tendency to waste opportunities in front of goal at this stage of his career... Is it also fair to say he lacks a few tricks in this role? Bit one dimensional?

For instance I think he should be our Fyfe-nerf when we play Freo. He showed great application and intensity when he has gone to him previously and honestly did a great job as that accountable mid, but not a hard tagger. When we play Hawthorn, perhaps he is forward of the ball as a minder on Sicily? Gives him a job and he might pop up with a goal when the opportunity presents itself? When teams play a big wing against us, maybe he gets that role to keep them accountable in the air but try and run off them when he can? Teams like Melbourne (Tomlinson) Freo (Lobb when Darcy is fit) Geelong (Blicavs when not KPD) among others have shown a willingness to do this. Just spitballing I guess...

 

[mrjones]

*blows whistle*

Incorrect disposal

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Where’s Chism when you need him

 

[iAsbestos]

Outside of 50/50, I feel, as the back 6/7 is largely in place and with Newman seemingly preferred in that group and then the wings will be out of reach as for him as they are currently for O'Brien, thanks to Newnes being involved.

Still, Williamson should be in the mix somewhere. You never know, but as was the case for round 1; Experience may get precedence for now.

Play both move SPS to the guts and omit Dow.

 

[Own The Future]

Agree re your analysis of our work at stoppages and contests. We’re good at getting first hands to the ball but then from that point, there doesn’t seem to be much method - just hack it forward. This is where I look to John Barker. Has been the “stoppages” coach for a couple of years now. Seems to be a pretty narrow role and there doesn’t appear to be a lot of drilled in method. Ideally from the first possession we would look to release a player in space running towards goal. This may require one or multiple handballs but that’s what the good teams do. They ping it around by hand until a player is released into space running towards goal who can either lower their eyes and honour the hit up lead or kick long to the advantage of the forwards.

I remember seeing a really good clip of 5 centre bounces from a game we played against Richmond in 2019. Unfortunately I can’t find it anywhere. Anyway, basically they sat off and let us take first possession and then would pounce on us, forcing an errant kick or handball. They then gained possession off the turnover, pinged the ball around by handball and launched an attack forward. However, we should remember they’ve been the best team over the past 3-4 years so we’re comparinh ourselves to the best. It’s an area I think we can improve and, once we do, we’ll be so much more potent and able to put our periods of dominance / momentum onto the scoreboard.

Could not agree more.
Such great analysis here.

I don’t claim to know exactly what the line coaches do (and I gather there is a fair amount of anti-Barker sentiment on this forum), but your statement that there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of method other than hack it forward is so accurate.

I’ve written on this forum that it is probably my biggest aggravation when watching us play. Others on here have correctly mentioned that the long bomb forward works for some teams - namely the ones with a high pressure forward line who hunt the crumbed ball and really bottle up the defenders. Lately that is clearly not the case with us, so the kick and hope strategy is not in our best interest.

I’d love to see the few quick fire handballs from stoppage to free up the best kicks in our side for either a spot up kick, or a link up handball to a running HB or wingman.

If Barker is not equipped to a) come up with such a strategy or b) implement and instruct this method, then why the hell is he still our stoppage coach?!?
Will be fascinating to see which - if any - changes have been made to this approach when we get back into it.

 

[Moody Blue]

Chairman Don does not have a problem with 30,000 people protesting, but insists the rest of us stay away from work or God forbid socialise.

I propose that we organise a protest in conjunction with Melbourne Fans on the 13 June at 4.00 near or thereabouts to the Marvel Stadium. If the gates were to be open what a perfect venue to spend the next 3 hours protesting about the injustices of forwards rarely winning the Brownlow.

BYO beer and food.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

No, they weren't. There's a fair bit of recency bias going on in your post IMO.

No doubt Dow struggled enormously over the second half of the 2019 season. I'm putting that down to a bit of fatigue, but mostly due to being played out of position thus far under Teague.

He's not a forward and he never will be. He's a midfielder, and I believe he'll be an excellent one. He has played some pretty decent footy in the guts thus far in his very young career.

His contested work is excellent for a player of his size and experience. Stocker is certainly the better kick and has the stronger body, but we haven't seen the inside ball winning ability from him at senior level yet. Dow is clearly ahead on that front.

Definitely not a natural forward he’s an explosive midfielder...
I’m a little different on his forward capabilities i think once his game is fully up and running he has the ability to be very similar to Cuningham, he’ll cause some damage down forward with his explosiveness, hardness, agility & evasiveness when rotating through there..

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Agree re your analysis of our work at stoppages and contests. We’re good at getting first hands to the ball but then from that point, there doesn’t seem to be much method - just hack it forward. This is where I look to John Barker. Has been the “stoppages” coach for a couple of years now. Seems to be a pretty narrow role and there doesn’t appear to be a lot of drilled in method. Ideally from the first possession we would look to release a player in space running towards goal. This may require one or multiple handballs but that’s what the good teams do. They ping it around by hand until a player is released into space running towards goal who can either lower their eyes and honour the hit up lead or kick long to the advantage of the forwards.

Perfectly explained, lack of drilled methods... I’ve said this previously i cannot understand why we have him ‘Barker’ in a midfield position ‘stoppages’ coaching role period... Baffling... great post..

 

[Bluebag13]

Definitely not a natural forward he’s an explosive midfielder...
I’m a little different on his forward capabilities i think once his game is fully up and running he has the ability to be very similar to Cuningham, he’ll cause some damage down forward with his explosiveness, hardness, agility & evasiveness when rotating through there..

I largely agree with this but issue is Dow doesnt have the skills by foot (left and right) that cunners has. Cuningham is a classy player.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I largely agree with this but issue is Dow doesnt have the skills by foot (left and right) that cunners has. Cuningham is a classy player.

Yeah agree, there is a difference between their kicking atm...

 

[SurreyBlue]

I largely agree with this but issue is Dow doesnt have the skills by foot (left and right) that cunners has. Cuningham is a classy player.

I know I've mentioned this previously, but Cuningham reminds me so muich like Ryan 'silky' Houlihan.

 

[Bostonian]

Chairman Don does not have a problem with 30,000 people protesting, but insists the rest of us stay away from work or God forbid socialise.

I propose that we organise a protest in conjunction with Melbourne Fans on the 13 June at 4.00 near or thereabouts to the Marvel Stadium. If the gates were to be open what a perfect venue to spend the next 3 hours protesting about the injustices of forwards rarely winning the Brownlow.

BYO beer and food.

And bring air horns.

#airhornsoutsidefortheboys

 

[Bluebag13]

I know I've mentioned this previously, but Cuningham reminds me so muich like Ryan 'silky' Houlihan.

would love a player of houla's ability in our team now. Hope its cunners

 

[Mister Carlton]

I would like to a training group of setters, gibbons, dow, newness, obrien. They should be told they are soft and don't tackle. Then train them against Cripps, curnow, kennedy, martin and silvagni. Keep getting the second group to dump the first group into the turf. Tackling session after tackling session. I wouldn't play any of gibbons, dow, setters or obrien until they tackle.

Yes because the fat club worked wonders for our players in the past too.

 

[katmanblue]

I largely agree with this but issue is Dow doesnt have the skills by foot (left and right) that cunners has. Cuningham is a classy player.

Nor does Dow have the goal sense.

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[The Blue Weirdo]

I hope Cunners and Dow both succeed, but I'm more confidant of Dow getting there, in the long run. He's a tuff inside mid with good game sense, not a forward. The coaches obviously can see his true potential.

 

[Jeremias]

Definitely not a natural forward he’s an explosive midfielder...
I’m a little different on his forward capabilities i think once his game is fully up and running he has the ability to be very similar to Cuningham, he’ll cause some damage down forward with his explosiveness, hardness, agility & evasiveness when rotating through there..

Dow and Cuningham?

Very different footballers, who for mine only share two main traits:

- The ability to explode from a contest; and
- They both go missing for large periods

The former is hugely valuable and I expect it to become even more so as they gain further experience and confidence to be able to use it throughout games.

The latter is somewhat of a concern. I think it's a fitness/experience thing with Dow, but Cuningham has always been a low possession/high impact fotoballer, and I think he always will be.