Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 3 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[dogwatch]

Agreed. It's hard to work out how it'll play out at this stage, but if clubs need to reduce caps by several million dollars, it won't be a matter of dropping off players 38-45 on the list, all on lower wages. Teams are likely going to need to make very harsh calls on some players on bigger contracts

But will it be just be cutting out some high cost players (as GWS do nearly every year) or will it be by cutting list sizes AND cutting contracts across the board? Haven't players via the AFLPA already offered to take a substantial pay cut for 2020? Has anything along these lines been discussed for 2021 and beyond?

If you cut list sizes as well as reduce contracts it drives home the reality to players that jobs are on the line, not just their high salaries.

In theory they could actually keep list sizes at 44 if players would accept a bigger cut in contracts. Naturally the cut must apply to all existing contracts as well, not just new ones. However I reckon it'll probably be a bit of both - reduced list size and reduced contract value across the board. Whether they do that as a fixed percentage or apply higher % cuts for those in the top bracket is a tricky issue. Also the AFL has a minimum payment guarantee for draftees, rookies, etc so the players on minimum contracts might be spared a contract reduction ... as long as they keep their place on the list.

 

[Mattdougie]

My info is that Gardner will be resigned before the year is out if the rookie list is completely scraped

 

[Virgin Dog]

My info is that Gardner will be resigned before the year is out if the rookie list is completely scraped

* me dead. We must all be missing something if he's rated this much by the club..

I really hope we have all collectively been dead wrong about him and he ends up being a good player, because I haven't seen it so far

 

[bobs head soup]

Suckling is on about 500k a year
Dickson 350k
Schache is on the most out of that lot at 600k (which is less then his original contract). The rest are minimum wage

Speculation is that caps will be cut by $3-4 million or more so much bigger cuts will probably be required, even accounting for general cuts.

 

[bobs head soup]

But will it be just be cutting out some high cost players (as GWS do nearly every year) or will it be by cutting list sizes AND cutting contracts across the board? Haven't players via the AFLPA already offered to take a substantial pay cut for 2020? Has anything along these lines been discussed for 2021 and beyond?

If you cut list sizes as well as reduce contracts it drives home the reality to players that jobs are on the line, not just their high salaries.

In theory they could actually keep list sizes at 44 if players would accept a bigger cut in contracts. Naturally the cut must apply to all existing contracts as well, not just new ones. However I reckon it'll probably be a bit of both - reduced list size and reduced contract value across the board. Whether they do that as a fixed percentage or apply higher % cuts for those in the top bracket is a tricky issue. Also the AFL has a minimum payment guarantee for draftees, rookies, etc so the players on minimum contracts might be spared a contract reduction ... as long as they keep their place on the list.

As I understand it, all players will take a set % cut and overall caps will take a significantly bigger% cut (hence the need for smaller lists).

The exact numbers are still being negotiated but I doubt club's will get by through simply delisting their lowest paid players

 

[Mattdougie]

fu** me dead. We must all be missing something if he's rated this much by the club..

I really hope we have all collectively been dead wrong about him and he ends up being a good player, because I haven't seen it so far

With the salary cap cut blokes like him who are on he minimum will be kept before some mid range talent on 150-250k simply for financial reasons unless those guys are prepared to take the minimum.

Mid tier players will also have very little bargaining power in a trade to others clubs.

Going to be a messy off season with some baffling decisions at all clubs

 

[weltschmerz]

I was wondering about Khamis, but he's gotta be on a pretty comparatively low salary too. I guess if he or some of the other younger blokes were delisted, they'd play in state leagues for a couple years and push their claim to be re-drafted as mature agers.

 

[Mojorisin]

I was wondering about Khamis, but he's gotta be on a pretty comparatively low salary too. I guess if he or some of the other younger blokes were delisted, they'd play in state leagues for a couple years and push their claim to be re-drafted as mature agers.

Id say khamis is pretty safe would be 3 or 4 before him

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Running out of room for speculative picks to be honest. This is his 4th year and he wasn't exactly demanding selection last year like Bailey Dale and Pat Lipinski were. He may get lucky for another year, but there's only so much room on lists going forward, and unless he shows something soon, I'd rather keep someone like Jong or Porter over him.

It's an almost identical situation with Brad Lynch. Both Greene and Lynch looked somewhat exciting in glimpses in 2018, then barely did anything in 2019.

Bit harsh, Greene only played 4 games for the whole year in between injuries. If he's deslisted it'll be because his body isn't up to it, not his form.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Bit harsh, Greene only played 4 games for the whole year in between injuries. If he's deslisted it'll be because his body isn't up to it, not his form.

Greene played 5 games at the end of 2018 (round 19 - 23). Kicked a single goal in each game, including 4 behinds in his second game with a career high of 11 disposals.

He's done some nice looking things, and had decent games at VFL level, but he would honestly be one of the first players I'd be cutting if list sizes were reduced. When you're competing with Dale, Wallis, Lloyd and Gowers for a spot, and even Gowers can't get a consistent game, I just don't see how we can keep him on in the faint hope he becomes a good player

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Greene played 5 games at the end of 2018 (round 19 - 23). Kicked a single goal in each game, including 4 behinds in his second game with a career high of 11 disposals.

He's done some nice looking things, and had decent games at VFL level, but he would honestly be one of the first players I'd be cutting if list sizes were reduced. When you're competing with Dale, Wallis, Lloyd and Gowers for a spot, and even Gowers can't get a consistent game, I just don't see how we can keep him on in the faint hope he becomes a good player

Not disagreeing, just think it's unfair to say he wasn't demanding a spot last year when he didn't have the opportunity to. I think at this point he's spend more time in recovery then developing his game. I'd love to see him get a chance to grow on that 2018 form because a goal a game is a very reasonable start for a forward nowdays, but there's no point if he can't get his body right.

 

[josh the gent]

Giving up on young tall lean built forwards with great skills can come back and bite.
I remember back in the day the vibe about Bernie Quinlan was he would always be just a tease , didn't have any physical presence about him.

Before you all jump on me , not saying I am comparing the two for ability , but there are similarities.

I’m an early 80s baby, so the Superboot departure precedes my time a bit.

What happened when he left? Did we just not try enough to keep him?

Ifs/buts/maybes - but could we have won 85 with him?!

 

[King Harold]

I’m an early 80s baby, so the Superboot departure precedes my time a bit.

What happened when he left? Did we just not try enough to keep him?

Ifs/buts/maybes - but could we have won 85 with him?!

Bernie was shunted off in 1978 , i was devastated.
He had played some great footy for us particularly at CHB and any idiot could see what a talent he was.
But even our own supporter base had this view of him as being ”soft “
There were plenty who became frustrated he was not busting packs And throwing elbows around which was the norm of the day.
The 70’s were a rough and tumble period , not for the faint hearted , but Bernie was purely a ball player.

Dick Collinson sold him off for about $70 k , while running the club into the ground.
Lets just say Dick was a. “ colourful character “
He would have made a great ally for a bloke like Trump !

By the end of his career no one thought Quinlan was “ soft “
What a star he was !

 

[VitalDread]

Gws are about to hit nother salary cap squeeze. Cleaned out the books over the last couple of years to the point they could manage the next few year but with impending changes they're gonna loose a few this year and next

Would love to get Zac Williams

 

[AJARWA]

I see the logic but Bruce turns 28 on Monday so we might only get 3-4 years out of him. Naughton already has knee issues - hope he'll come up OK but it's a concern. We haven't even secured JUH yet although you'd think it's a certainty, just haggling over the price. Even then it would be reasonable to expect it'd be a year or two before JUH is making a serious impact on games.

One unexpected long term injury to any of those and we'd be looking a bit limited.

Whether Bevo "prefers" Young to Schache long term is also a moot point. He might have just been sending a message to both of them. Young - you've got to be versatile, let's see what you've got. Schache - those recent efforts weren't good enough, we're not going to gift you games, work harder.

Don't disagree. He's good depth.

My view on KPFs is that most teams only need two in the 22. JUH should be ready to go when Bruce retires. Naughton should be on fire by then.

 

[Pugz89]

Would love Williams but don't think we could afford him would be great on a wing for us.
Looks increasingly more likely Cameron will be at the pies to clear the squeeze

Aren't the Pies up against the wall with their own cap? All the talk, even before COVID was they would struggle to keep Grundy, Moore and De Goey... Grundy signed bigger deal than expected already with the other two unsigned.

 

[Pugz89]

Running out of room for speculative picks to be honest. This is his 4th year and he wasn't exactly demanding selection last year like Bailey Dale and Pat Lipinski were. He may get lucky for another year, but there's only so much room on lists going forward, and unless he shows something soon, I'd rather keep someone like Jong or Porter over him.

It's an almost identical situation with Brad Lynch. Both Greene and Lynch looked somewhat exciting in glimpses in 2018, then barely did anything in 2019.

For me, we don't have many players like Greene, whereas we have an abundance of guys who can play a similar role to Porter.

 

[dergert]

Whats McLean worth on the open market?

 

[Northernsoul74]

Whats McLean worth on the open market?

Not a lot. Late second if we’re lucky.

 

[dergert]

Not a lot. Late second if we’re lucky.

We need to look beyond the libba and Wallis years

 

[Munnez]

Aren't the Pies up against the wall with their own cap? All the talk, even before COVID was they would struggle to keep Grundy, Moore and De Goey... Grundy signed bigger deal than expected already with the other two unsigned.

Talk is Stephenson is a big chance of taking a deal to go elsewhere

 

[Mojorisin]

Talk is Stephenson is a big chance of taking a deal to go elsewhere

Pies not happy with his training standards. North have been in constant communication

 

[LittleG]

Pies not happy with his training standards. North have been in constant communication

Pies not happy with training standards - pushing price of contract being offered downward.
North talking big dollars - pushing contract amount upwards.


Pies can’t afford half of what he can get elsewhere. He is out the door.

 

[Mattdougie]

I’d be more worried about one team in particular having a massive dip at Bont than us bringing someone else in.

 

[weltschmerz]

I’d be more worried about one team in particular having a massive dip at Bont than us bringing someone else in.

I feel like Bont's pretty untouchable, though I saw a discussion about whether trading Macrae would be a net gain.