List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
Taylor, gray and hickey ... wow. Just junk

I don’t expect us to sign superstars every year but at least sign players that have potential for growth and improvement.

This is rubbish
I actually don't understand what you expect. Every club in the bottom 4, especially clubs that are in NSW/QLD struggle hard to attract talent.
We saw Brisbane struggle for years to get anyone decent in and when it happens to us we're surprised.

Why are we surprised?
 
Jun 16, 2012
25,015
25,575
AFL Club
Sydney
Oh, you must know some rucks that are proven afl standard to stop Aliir having to pinch hit. Please share, I would love to know what our recruiters are missing.


Facts stand, we are in a crap position, we are a bottom 4 club and to attract a ruck from another club is almost impossible. Obviously with Hickey he wants a commitment of 3 years, otherwise he would just stay with West Coast. It's a necessary evil when trying to keep Aliir happy.

Its so bloody obvious the problems we are facing that it bugs me that people think that our staff are blind to them.


Do we actually want to give Hickey a 3 year deal.
You would have to be a moron to think yes.

But if that's what is required to keep Aliir happy and bolster our ruck stocks, then that's what we have to do.


3 years for hickey is ridiculous.pluck a ruck out of a state comp for a year and target a ruck from another club for 12 months. A solid vfl ruck is going to just as good as hickey
 
Jun 16, 2012
25,015
25,575
AFL Club
Sydney
I actually don't understand what you expect. Every club in the bottom 4, especially clubs that are in NSW/QLD struggle hard to attract talent.
We saw Brisbane struggle for years to get anyone decent in and when it happens to us we're surprised.

Why are we surprised?

That may be the case, but why hamstring ourselves for 3 years with someone like hickey. Club is in a terrible position atm
 
Swans supporter too

I'm a Swans supporter, does that mean the Swans should recruit me?

Whilst recruiting players who support your club may reduce the "Go home factor" you should always recruit who we believe is the best available.
 

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
That may be the case, but why hamstring ourselves for 3 years with someone like hickey. Club is in a terrible position atm
How is it a hamstrung position. We are prioritising keeping the team together rather than bringing in talent. If Hickey guarantees Aliir sticking with the team that something that the swans are going to take.

Argue that maybe. If you disagree with keeping the team together and feel we should sacrifice inside talent for outside talent, them sure, you have a point and I would listen.

To assume stupidity on the parts of the swans is rather annoying honestly. Not even trying to understand the problems our list managers have to deal with.
 

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
Hickey is completely cooked

enjoying the mental gymnastics of those saying it’s fine because we keep aliir 😂
Okay then, what would you rather? Give up Aliir for a second or there abouts and then what?

The swans have determined that the best stop gap ruck right now is Hickey, and although I'm not confident in his playing ability, nor do I think he'll do much for the team, ill at lease try to see where the swans are coming from.

No trade happens in a vacuum, and that's the assumption that's annoying me.
 
Aug 9, 2016
4,390
5,587
AFL Club
Sydney
If we sign hickey for 3 years, I have lost all faith in our list management department whoever that may be

Like every agreement there is offer and acceptance. It’s not the list mgt dept problem IF offers are made but that acceptance isn’t forthcoming because player perception is that we aren’t a positive destination. That is just circumstance. I can look at our list the average age the untapped potential so close to fruition and believe. Players though seem to be uniquely stupid to make that same assessment to me. As example Cameron chooses Geelong who on my assessment are an inch away from a cliff and choose them on ladder position when our promise is much stronger. Like I said plain stupidity. And there is this blind faith that accrues only to 4 clubs (not coincidentally Vic) who seem impervious to falling from the ‘destination club’ window based upon some mysterious VFL historical perspective now entrenched into psyche. Enough to make someone with a brain puke that it is so.
 
Jun 16, 2012
25,015
25,575
AFL Club
Sydney
Okay then, what would you rather? Give up Aliir for a second or there abouts and then what?

The swans have determined that the best stop gap ruck right now is Hickey, and although I'm not confident in his playing ability, nor do I think he'll do much for the team, ill at lease try to see where the swans are coming from.

No trade happens in a vacuum, and that's the assumption that's annoying me.

I’d rather play Sinclair and McLean in the ruck. Both are undersized but both can also play fwd and are decent kicks. I’d have them both alternating ruck and ff
 

Keyter

All Australian
Dec 6, 2010
896
1,020
Docklands
AFL Club
Sydney
Gulden is a play maker. hopefully his natural attacking flair can translate to senior afl. Has great instincts for the game. I can see him drawn in the 1st/early 2nd...hopefully he slides though..pretty impressive performances since u16s...

 

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
I’d rather play Sinclair and McLean in the ruck. Both are undersized but both can also play fwd and are decent kicks. I’d have them both alternating ruck and ff
Out teams midfield looked the most dynamic when Aliir was there.

McLean and Sinclair just kind lose ruck hit outs and try to help out.

I don't know if hickey will be any different, but it's not going to hurt to try something new.
 
I’d rather play Sinclair and McLean in the ruck. Both are undersized but both can also play fwd and are decent kicks. I’d have them both alternating ruck and ff

I do agree with you on this one. I'd probably prefer Sinclair and McLean as well. McLean was no worse than Hickey would probably be, and at this point he's a better investment than Hickey. I personally think the club is a little too laser-focused on the ruck situation, when a) I don't think it's our biggest problem, and b) there doesn't appear to be an obvious fix regardless of who we bring in.

What should be the priority is keeping our contracted defender on the list. We have a guy who wants to play for us, asking to be played in the one position where he's shown he can be an outstanding player. That should be a no-brainer, and he shouldn't be going anywhere. If he does, then I would consider that more of a blunder on the club's behalf than any ruck recruit I might not rate.
 

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
Just for clarification:

I don't rate Hickey, and I personally wouldnt have offered a 3 year deal. I don't care that people disagree with that.

What annoys me is assuming that the people who put that 3 year deal to him are morons. There's a reason why we are going with Hickey, and a reason why we offered 3 years, both are pretty obvious.

If someone says, "oh I don't know about this Hickey deal, even to keep Aliir this could bite us in the back", I would tend to agree.

But to say, "3 years? I've lost all faith, blah blah blah". I just feel like they haven't even tried to get past their gut reaction.
 
Jun 16, 2012
25,015
25,575
AFL Club
Sydney
I do agree with you on this one. I'd probably prefer Sinclair and McLean as well. McLean was no worse than Hickey would probably be, and at this point he's a better investment than Hickey. I personally think the club is a little too laser-focused on the ruck situation, when a) I don't think it's our biggest problem, and b) there doesn't appear to be an obvious fix regardless of who we bring in.

What should be the priority is keeping our contracted defender on the list. We have a guy who wants to play for us, asking to be played in the one position where he's shown he can be an outstanding player. That should be a no-brainer, and he shouldn't be going anywhere. If he does, then I would consider that more of a blunder on the club's behalf than any ruck recruit I might not rate.
Agree we must do everything we can to keep aliir, but we can cover the ruck situation internally without committing 3 years to a terrible footballer. It’s not like wer competing for a flag so does it really matter if McLean and Sinclair get beat in the ruck ?
 

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
I do agree with you on this one. I'd probably prefer Sinclair and McLean as well. McLean was no worse than Hickey would probably be, and at this point he's a better investment than Hickey. I personally think the club is a little too laser-focused on the ruck situation, when a) I don't think it's our biggest problem, and b) there doesn't appear to be an obvious fix regardless of who we bring in.

What should be the priority is keeping our contracted defender on the list. We have a guy who wants to play for us, asking to be played in the one position where he's shown he can be an outstanding player. That should be a no-brainer, and he shouldn't be going anywhere. If he does, then I would consider that more of a blunder on the club's behalf than any ruck recruit I might not rate.
Yah, this is what I'm trying to say. The recruitment of Hickey isn't to get a ruck, it's to keep a defender. Argue based on that, not as if he is the ruck we want.
 

brad cooper

Premiership Player
Jul 5, 2014
3,203
5,988
AFL Club
Sydney
I don't mind that idea at all - back ourselves to improve next year, and accelerate the rebuild. But we'd have to do it after Campbell bid on for it to work?
So we'd likely have to target a few clubs with picks in the 12-16 range? Who would you want there?
Yer only works after we match for Campbell.

No idea with who to draft at that pick but in terms of position we could really do with a decent ruck prospect, rucks don't tend to be picked early so could even get the highest rated ruck in the range you suggested.

It's really only worth doing if we think a bid will come for Gulden before round 1 ends. looks like giants have matched Cameron offer so that's one less first round compo pick already.
 
It's not mental gymnastics, it's just logic. Our best chance of keeping Aliir is to get a ruck on the list.
It isn’t logic. It’s some bizarre justification.

Okay then, what would you rather? Give up Aliir for a second or there abouts and then what?

The swans have determined that the best stop gap ruck right now is Hickey, and although I'm not confident in his playing ability, nor do I think he'll do much for the team, ill at lease try to see where the swans are coming from.

No trade happens in a vacuum, and that's the assumption that's annoying me.
> stop gap
> three year deal

pick one.

All this assumes that there are zero other options out there. List spots are at a premium and we’ve offered an absolute spud a 3 year deal. Will be surprised if he plays a game.

No idea why the front office should get the benefit of doubt when they let Cameron and Nank go for stuff all and they’re far better than anything we have.
 
Jun 16, 2012
25,015
25,575
AFL Club
Sydney
Just for clarification:

I don't rate Hickey, and I personally wouldnt have offered a 3 year deal. I don't care that people disagree with that.

What annoys me is assuming that the people who put that 3 year deal to him are morons. There's a reason why we are going with Hickey, and a reason why we offered 3 years, both are pretty obvious.

If someone says, "oh I don't know about this Hickey deal, even to keep Aliir this could bite us in the back", I would tend to agree.

But to say, "3 years? I've lost all faith, blah blah blah". I just feel like they haven't even tried to get past their gut reaction.

Throwing 3 years at hickey tells me that the club is just throwing money at the first ruck that they can land . We can play McLean and Sinclair in the ruck. Net output would be no better or worse than hickey, except it saves us 3 years
 
Agree we must do everything we can to keep aliir, but we can cover the ruck situation internally without committing 3 years to a terrible footballer. It’s not like wer competing for a flag so does it really matter if McLean and Sinclair get beat in the ruck ?

Some on here might say that yes it does matter because our midfield won't improve as long as we keep getting beat in the ruck.

I would say no it doesn't matter because our mids butcher it when they get it anyway.
 

Tesla Tenet

Premiership Player
Apr 13, 2016
3,118
3,603
AFL Club
Sydney
People saying a second round selection only effects next year's second rounder - not the first.
Surely you don't think Gulden is going in the first?
1st round might get to pick 24 or 25 with Tigers pick being the last pick of the round or traded to however for the last 1st round pick.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Kapers

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2019
5,055
11,566
AFL Club
Sydney
Agree we must do everything we can to keep aliir, but we can cover the ruck situation internally without committing 3 years to a terrible footballer. It’s not like wer competing for a flag so does it really matter if McLean and Sinclair get beat in the ruck ?
See, I agree with this.

I don't know, maybe we rate Hickey more than we do McLean. I just don't think it's THAT bad of a trade since it is signalling to Aliir how important he is. It literally is only a bad trade if Aliir leaves next year anyway. THEN it's a horrendous pick up.
 
Jun 16, 2012
25,015
25,575
AFL Club
Sydney
Some on here might say that yes it does matter because our midfield won't improve as long as we keep getting beat in the ruck.

I would say no it doesn't matter because our mids butcher it when they get it anyway.
Imo rucks don’t improve mids that much, pies have the best ruck in the game and their trying to shop off their 900k star mid
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back