Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2
- Status
Thank you, that's all i asked for, instead you quoted a site that doesn't think Trinity is necessary to be Christian. They have 10 million active members too. Goes to know i am right, about varying beliefs in Christianity, despite you claiming otherwise.
But you get angry and start accusing other people when people ask questions. For me, humans picking and choosing what parts of Bible to believe and what parts to discard did it. Cannot be the word of God, afterall who believes that children need to be flogged in public for not obeying there parents? who believes women need to be put to death for not being virgins? who believes that god will allow rape and infanticide? NO ONE, if you believe in any of the above, you are not a human, you are a monster. Killing a person cause he dared to believe in another deity AFTER you rape their wife and murder their children...... you can say 'mysterious ways' or whatever, but i want no part of it.
Put your rational hat on. A person tells you he is kind and merciful and helps others, but you catch him beating his wife and molesting kids. Would you believe him still? of course not. Same goes for me. This cannot be the word of God, who describes himself as kind and merciful. Jesus said if you dont leave your father and mother you cannot be my disciple. Youshould look into just what God 'punishes' people for. Not yelling loud enough when being raped, general unspecified 'wickedness,' not ejaculating into their brother's widow, simply not being an Israelite. If you think that the things God did were justified then you too are a prick. But I don't think most Christians do. I think that they say that they do in order to continue believing in the Bible. No one in their right state of mind believes this. NO ONE..yourself included. Etc etc
For me, it was obvious that these rules and ideas were man made. They contradicted each other, many changed with the times, others made no sense whatsoever, more were just ignored.
I went to church because I was forced to. I don't think I ever really believed, even as a kid. I wondered how adults could buy all that clear bullshit. As soon as it was my choice, I bailed on religion.
I maintain the fact that the Bible crumbles under a critical eye, but since step one of Christianity is to have unending faith and trust in God/Jesus/their word, well...People just quietly look the other way, or "interpret" these flaws out of existence, or just say they're outdated and nobody should expect to respect the "clearly outlandish" statements. (But if I can choose what to follow and not follow, what's even the point of the rulebook? I can just do whatever at that point, can't I?). That's complete bullshit, you either follow every word of God or you don't. You can't pick and choose parts to ignore!!
Next: Your belief is only about reward in afterlife, there's nothing more to it. As a person, i am no better (or worse) than you, so this is clear religion doesn't make you better. But i decided not to follow an a-hole of a God through conscience. You think your message should be heard, but that's crap. Your truth is not someone else's truth. Cults are created when questioning is not allowed and shunning of those with different viewpoints is practiced. See Islam, as of today, it is a cult, just like Christianity before reformation.
Jesus didn't come to create Christofascism, where you're not allowed religious freedom and the opportunity to hold different viewpoints on various texts. It's always our way or the highway with you guys. I maintain the position that is consistent with history, regarding Trinity, OS. These are not beliefs that Jesus held, these are Nicean/Augustinian Christianity. Very few historians will disagree with me, but of course the church has a conflict of interest will disagree cause they manipulated the texts in the first place and they admitted doing that too. So why on earth would i listen to anything that the church has to say?
And finally, religion depends on the place of birth, if God wanted his message to be heard he could have found a better way than this, doesn't reek omnipotence at all.
You can believe if it makes you sleep better, but my point remains valid, why worship such a deity? only because a reward exists. Preaching to the intelligent will not bear fruit, i suggest you call up the less educated ones and prey on them like missionaries do. This is why with education this is bound to die.
Most people who claim to follow a holy book don't read their holybook, they get their knowledge of their religion from their community. When we show them the horrors in their book, it's to show just how inconsistent their two beliefs here are together. 1. They believe in the god of their holybook 2. God has the qualities that the community says it has.
1 and 2 are often incompatible. You are no exception, when i quoted those horrible verses that took you by surprise as well. Your response was typical but even you couldn't understand what part of 'kind and merciful' was it? You are a human right? do you find infanticide acceptable? it's a no obviously, well that lies your answer and before you say that's the OT, well that's GOD...with objective morality. My question being even if such a deity exists, why follow such a prick??? All because of life after death which no one has seen, no one has confirmed? All based on promises that Jews make, Muslims make and other religins make too? All on the basis of texts written by unknown authors many decades afteR Jesus and manipulated by Romans? that's a **** way to live your life, but yeah as i said, as long as it makes you sleep better, who really cares? But living your one and only life as a slave, on earth is not everyones cup of tea. Christians simply don't get it.
Last edited:
I know, like people who said we should open up during COVID and let people's grandparents die because "they had their time", terrible people, aren't they?
Then spend most their time on this board slamming religiion in this thread then vote for a Hillsong Pentecostal, it is pretty ironic
The last 5 mentions of my notis are from you within minutes of each other, on top of quoting posts weeks old, most people would go yikes. I'm just saying
If you're a Christian then you should know comparing my emotional intellect to a mustard seed is actually a compliment, thank you very much for your kind words
The website shat it’s pants as anyone trying to access it during that period would have noticed. Just sayin’
As a Christian I am very much of the belief that intellect the size of a mustard seed can lead to great things.
Can.
What should I have done by the way, gone back in time and quoted you a few weeks ago?
Yes yes, I'm sure it's the website, buddy
Well yes, most sensible people would kinda let weeks old posts lie coz ya know, they are old news
I was just surprised at getting quoted considering I haven't been in this thread for ages, the whole Christians vs atheists back and forth gets very boring since neither will change their point of view. Little did I know it was someone digging out old posts of mine, crazy stuff. Most people with some decorum would just ya know, let the point go
Ok Tinfoil you got me.
I thought my point was so profound I posted it half a dozen times.
Most people when they look at a thread for the first time in a while, get returned to the point where they last viewed it.
If you’re happy with what you posted when you posted it, don’t get menstrual when someone sees it, reads it, and responds.
If we switched positions and I am the one triple replying quoting ya and digging up your old posts, you'd be calling me "menstrual". Ya know, maybe the solution is you should get some tampons and we can shake and makeup?
Imagine still saying menstrual in 2021 btw, not very Christian of ya.
Alright alright I had my fun, I got a game to watch, have fun buddy
Do people of a certain religious persuasion suddenly not have access to a fairly generic term for being ticked off?
I said shat as well. Is that non Christian?
I’m simply miffed that you have such a bee in your bonnet at having the number ‘3’ in your notifications instead of the desired number ‘1’
That must have been a very stressful time and I hope you come out the other side unscathed
'I exploited them': Former Catholic priest pleads guilty to more than 30 child sexual offences
Peter Hansen, a former NSW Labor Party branch secretary and Catholic priest in Melbourne, pleads guilty to more than 30 offences including sex with children in Asian countries.
He will be in heaven with y'all...
Yes there is, it is exactly how someone from a cult would explain their cult.
A lot of 'believes' there. Christians are taught to parrot the church councils, almost word for word, he is no exception.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
Just fwiw, I had a long conversation last pm with my 30 yo daughter and her partner, and i actually asked her if she was on BF as Total Power. She could easily get away with that. Her opinions were as detailed and strong as yours, and she asked me all the things you do, and how could I follow a God who abused Adam and Eve by tempting them with forbidden fruit etc.
So, I am not into brainwashing people here, or my kids.
A lot of this you may have already read, but putting it ball out here does not embarrass me.
Like you, I was forced to go to a (Catholic) school and church, and when old enough to stand up to my father, refused to go. That was about age 15.
Unlike you, about 12 years later, I became increasingly interested in the beginning of life, as my Uni studies , including Evolution, did not leave me feeling confident of that explanation.
Other things, like achievement, success in studies, just life, made me feel a hollowness. The continual need to achieve was not the be all- end all. It was a long tedious search at times, and I felt myself drawn to Christians, but then I would try and pick out their hypocrisies, their weaknesses etc to make me feel they were misguided. And I always succeeded.
Eventually, my partner made a recommitment to Jesus, and was ready to leave me sort myself out. I noticed in her a dramatic change, a real peace, loss of turmoil, all the things I had been going through.
I caught up with her and asked her what had changed in her life, and she explained that she had given her life to Christ, and that she had never felt so much peace. There was no church involvement, a simple genuine prayer. She explained to me how to do it, and all this time I thought I was some sort of Christian due to my upbringing.
That night, I did ask Jesus to come into my life, and had a true and real Born Again experience.
Some things you say about the Bible resonate with all of us, but the personal change that happened to me, the acceptance, love, peace, I could never turn my back on that, because I still feel that way today. There is a daily relationship with Jesus which is stronger than the negative arguments i read here, even if somewhat illogical. It is MORE THAN A FEELING, as it has lasted 37 years, and culminated in us getting married and having a house full of kids.
Granted, our kids are very open to conspiracy theories, and that feisty 30 yo daughter of mine could well be you, and I respect that.
My conversion at that age, had nothing to do with heaven or eternal life- I was as fit and healthy as any person training for an Ironman competition. It was all to do with relationships, meaning of life, and what is this all about.
Still today, I walk with a good mate, a fellow Cats supporter, and a nominal Christian, and we spend more time talking about life, God and music than we do about footy. He is a highly intelligent engineer, and he also can not grasp that evolution explains our origins better than the concept of God.
I don't call myself a Catholic, or any denomination, simply Christian. And yes, many of the inconsistencies in the Bible were a concern, but life itself has taught me that having a relationship with God, via Christ, is the important issue. I can see why you would be so indignant about aspects of God- somehow, those issues do not sway me any more.
You say it is all illogical, and unreal, but those whose lives have been affected by being Born Again, you just can not go back.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,401
- 35,580
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Yes of course he will, its all gods plan
'I exploited them': Former Catholic priest pleads guilty to more than 30 child sexual offences
Peter Hansen, a former NSW Labor Party branch secretary and Catholic priest in Melbourne, pleads guilty to more than 30 offences including sex with children in Asian countries.www.abc.net.au
He will be in heaven with y'all...
I already told you, there are stories like this from ALL walks of life. Most famously read the story of Muhammed Ali and his conversion to Islam. He said 'Allah' found him, he finally peace and got his life back on track. Whatever people find their comfort in. I gave you my example, being born in abject poverty and being told i am suffering from being a sinner, i really had nothing in my life. My dad, devout Christian kept reminding me of reptentence (for what i have no idea!!) and forgiveness or apparently our lives will not get better. I just wanted to kill myself, being half aboriginal and growing up in the 80's and early 90's was tough as *****. I wanted to escape into God's arms cause this life was too much for me, there was no hope for me. Then one day, i decided to quit the church, after reading through the Bible and asking questions to the priest only to be told "you ask impossible questions" followed by "we have faith, we are told this....." blah blah blah. I realised that he doesn't know the answer either but they believe.
Fast forward, 1 year, i was free! no more Jesus, no clinging onto to false hope i just wanted to escape Australia! I did receive a full paid scholarship in a Swiss Uni and i never looked back since then. Now i employ 300 people and have everything anyone can wish for in life. I live for this life and as i said, the world is amazing, most people are busy taking, GIVE BACK....smile at people, i do earn a lot but i spend a massive portion of my earning helping others as well. If Jesus was here, he would have been proud of me. Love his creations first, only then you can love him.
And before you say i had God's blessings..haha please mate! i walked 8 kms everyday in freezing cold. I worked 8 hours in an Indian supermarket after 6 hours at the uni and all that after walking 8 kms per day! thats 18 hours of mental work and labor. On weekends, i would clean peoples homes/offices.. 12/14 hours a day. Pay was under the table since i was a student, but it paid my bills. I ate instant noodles and bread for 4 years of my life and made sure my dad doesn't have to suffer like he did for 60 years of my life. With no fear of god and no after/life, i had to make this life IS better and i am successful! if you are in Europe, lets meet up, i will show you what i have built and how i have built, all this without God's glory. I strive to live, with no expectations, i ain't a sinner cause some 2,000 year text book told me so. I am a righteous man, living a righteous life, guided by my conscience. I need no crutch, no saviour, when i die, i will be dead and SO WILL YOU.
This is completely psychological! there are literally millions if not billions of story throughout history. Another famous one is that of the Steve Jobs. Nikola Tesla, Heisenberg all had their life changed through various beliefs (all non-Christian).
Sure, belief and faith is an important tool, i don't disagree with you, but it's hardly cause Jesus has showered blessings on her. There are 50,000 children that's going to die today, but you think Jesus is busy looking after your wife? If you do , you are mistaken
This is very very common. My cousins friend recently had an 'encounter' with Shiva, on his trip to India. He never looked back, now he moved to India and he believes his life has changed. He suffered from clinical depression but now i don't even recognise him. He is a different man altogether.
It's exactly a feeling! no matter how you put it, it's nothing more than that. My dad has prayed for 50 years of his life, he is a burning example of how prayer and association with Christ doesn't work. Africa is an example of how association with Christ doesn't work. Scandinavia is an example of how an atheistic uptopia can lead to a cooperative society on the other hand.
Is history a conspiracy theory to you? Catholic Church under admission that they have manipulated the Bible is a conspiracy to you? NO MENTION of OS prior to Augustine is a conspiracy to you? No mention of Trinity in the Bible a conspiracy to you? read up on Johannine Comma, how the church fathers used their power to manipulate the verses. The GC that you love to quote was a 5th century input, the CC has finally ADMITTED this after being pressed on it. All this conspiracy to you?
Jesus' sayings being strikingly similar to that of Confucius and Buddha is a conspiracy to you? The fact that John has been heavility manipulated to suit the narrative is an admission under CC. But all this is a conspiracy to you??? pray tell, why?
No one is asking you to change your faith, but do you ask yourself about the character of your God for once? he responded to you but never responded to my dad who had 3 fingers chopped up in mining, being laid off without compo cause he is aboriginal, turned alcoholic but never gave up on his Bible. For 7 years we barely had 2 full meals. As a teenager, 2 full meals was luxury for me. He never gave up on the Bible still. I gave up on the Bible, after looking at the illogical immoral acts committed by your God. If Jesus comes down and tells me 'give up on your parents, then come follow me', i will tell him where to shove it. If Jesus comes and tells me to flog my child cause he is not obedient, i will tell him where to go. If Yehwah comes and threatens to rape my wife, i will do everything in my power to ***** that evil bastard.
It's not inconsistencies, there's is absolutely NO EVIDENCE in the Bible which shows lord is kind and merificul.. NONE! You wouldn't be following such a devil either unless the promise of heaven existed. If you follow Allah and accepted Allah, the same would have happened to you, there are millions of testimonials, if you would google, about Christian converting and life getting changed forever!
It's hardly an evidence of your deity existing. It's an evidence that humans are irrational beings, always was, always will be. You see what you wish to see.
Last edited:
ccatholics are big on the "personal relationship" stuff. I remember all manner of tripe in that theme from the pulpitt from my youth. It was also how my dad i spoke above imparted Catholicism to me. A lot of it was about "asking God" for this or that. A saint for every problem, like a lost set of keys, or a lost boy in the woods. ("What was his name again? Hmmff!) I wouldn't be too surprised to find that the "personal relationship" stuff coming from the intelligent adults you mention is just conceptions of this kind of relationship to God and Jesus, inculcated in childhood, and deeply internalised. That would seem to add up, but I'm not a psychologist so I'll quit with the speculative psycho-babble.
I will say however that I've been convinced for some time now, and not a single Christian poster here has done anything to dispel my suspicion, that the persistence of their belief is self-serving and fear-based. Of that I'm almost utterly convinced. VD's post above is the evidence of that, a life support/crutch a big brother helping me does have evolutionary benefits, there's peer reviewed papers on this.
I will say however that I've been convinced for some time now, and not a single Christian poster here has done anything to dispel my suspicion, that the persistence of their belief is self-serving and fear-based. Of that I'm almost utterly convinced. VD's post above is the evidence of that, a life support/crutch a big brother helping me does have evolutionary benefits, there's peer reviewed papers on this.
Trolololo. Jesus never existed and you do right? Do you exist? Can you prove to me you exist and to those in the future? Unlike you, weve got many sources that prove Jesus existed. Four gospels, letters of Paul (met the disciples but they mustve been following a fake guy), other NT writings, Birth and rise of christianity, Jewish history, other historical writings from josephus and others, historians all agree jesus existed, NT scholars who've studied the manuscript evidence through the centuries both in its original and translated languages for 20-40 yrs all claim jesus existed. Others as well. All these people are wrong and you are right because you do not like religion because it is confronting. Is that it?
In a few hundred years if not less, no one wouldve known you existed yet right now you supposedly do, do you? We will have no eye witnesses for your life. You wont be deemed worthy enough for anyone to document your existence.
Still yet, in 1000 years the story of Jesus (who never existed according to you) will live on. You on the hand will be nothing. No one wouldve known you existed. Youve made a mockery of yourself. Well done. In a 1000 years well still have much more evidence a fictional goat herder existed 3000 years earlier than your so called "enlightened" arse.
Stop quoting me you grimy germ
You have pretty much said what i have said all along, Come follow me doesn't come BEFORE keeping the commandments, if you don't keep the commandments (like help the poor , sell your possessions, feed the hungry), following him will result is nothing! Vdubs liked your post but i posted the same verses and he said it's all bullshit. Nowhere i said 'faith' is not important for salvatiion but like VD would like to think FAITH ALONE is the saviour is wrong. Jesus did imply its almost impossible for the rich to go to heaven. They might be Christian.
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
See Luke 6:46, Matthew 7:21, and John 3:36 ("Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him", showing, just like the other verses that "belief" must go hand in hand with obedience).
Bible Gateway passage: John 3:36 - English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.www.biblegateway.com
Bottom line, according to the Bible one must obey Jesus' commandments to be considered his follower and receive salvation. Otherwise you are OUT and the "belief" thing means nothing.
Faith alone isn't enough, this is clear! amazing how the Bible contradicts itself later on..but these are Jesus' own words, according VD, it's unnecessary.
Amazing how the Christians dont know their own bible.
Deeds come with faith as faith is emulating the words and deeds of Jesus. It is not impossible for the rich to enter heaven. Susanna and Joanna both were followers of Jesus and both were wealthy. You just cant allow money to control you. Vdubs does not have to everything away to be a true follower of Jesus thats a wrong interpretation. Story in Matthew 19 was to highlight the mans greed in opposition to what he was claiming (Loved neighbour/God as himself) etc along with the passage "You will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot love Both God and Money". Possible contradictions exist in the Bible elsewhere but on the rich/deeds to go into heaven I see no contradiction.
You have posted 15,000 times in 8 years. Your time isnt as valuable as you think it is. You've got more than enough time to read my post but you instead decided to be a clown so your cheerleaders can give you a clap. Clap. Clap.
13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
- Jul 5, 2012
- 24,745
- 40,163
- AFL Club
- Sydney
- Other Teams
- Kidding, right?
- Jul 5, 2012
- 24,745
- 40,163
- AFL Club
- Sydney
- Other Teams
- Kidding, right?
Seventy four million Americans just voted for a complete fake, so anything's possible.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
My own conversion came at a time of everything seeming to be perfect. Young, graduated, fit, healthy, popular, parents alive, siblings well, great career pathway, one that could involve travelling, and I had done that without reliance on any crutch, prayer, or God, yet there was a deep inner emptiness, a feeling of self- centredness. Seeking God has healed that dramatically for me, and I know you have your alternative examples.
There is not a lot more I can say about all this, but I hope we can cross paths one day, maybe a Port Cats GF this year.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,401
- 35,580
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Evidence....got any 1st hand accounts?
And why would you care if I existed or not, I'm not your god.....although I could be if you want me to
- Jul 5, 2012
- 24,745
- 40,163
- AFL Club
- Sydney
- Other Teams
- Kidding, right?
That deep inner emptiness is meant to be there. Welcome to being human.
How very graceful, your death cult needs to be nuked and I aim to be apart of destroying it.
Christ-cultists, always the victims.
Good, you deserve it!!
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
No there isn’t and it’s been discussed on here a few times. Written mostly post by similar minded fanatics.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
The irony from a Christian. Biggest cheerleaders in human history...burn em burn em.
- Jul 5, 2012
- 24,745
- 40,163
- AFL Club
- Sydney
- Other Teams
- Kidding, right?
"That prove Jesus existed"?
None of what you've written here comprises proof.
Also, you seem angry.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
