Preview Round 2, 2021: Hawthorn v Richmond, 28 March 2021, 1.10pm @ Melbourne Cricket Ground

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[KermitJagger]

He was ok. We need a horses for course policy here. It should be reviewed each week. We can't take 2 rucks into every game - it will depend on the oppo.

Can't keep throwing players in and out though. Team continuity is as important as anything in the AFL.

 

[On Topic]

Because you don’t sprint past your teammate all the way into the goal square if you’ve just said “Ollie, go back and take the shot”!

The more you watch it, the worse it looks actually. Handball every day of the week, and twice on Saturday.

View attachment 1084528

I didn't realise how bad this was when I watched it at the time. Re-watching it now, it was really cringe-worthy. Even if Breust had someone chasing closer, you'd still give it off to him.

Teaching moment for Hanrahan and the other inexperienced players on our list.

 

[Roddy]

Throughout VFL/AFL history, there's been several players who show up every week and do JUST enough to keep their place in the side (I used to think that about Ben Dixon

Ben Dixon

Age

46

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.4

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.4

5star

, for example). Tim O'Brien

22

Tim O'brien

Age

30

Ht

193cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

163.8

3star

D

5.9

1star

K

4.4

2star

HB

1.4

1star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.1

3star

MG

119.4

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

307.0

5star

takes this to another level. Almost a decade into his Hawthorn career, he must have come so very close to being dropped, and dropped for the last time, when he bobs up out of the blue, takes a big mark and kicks an important goal and BANG, he's suddenly back in the good books again. Clinging on for dear life....for eight years.

 

[Milkshaker]

Because you don’t sprint past your teammate all the way into the goal square if you’ve just said “Ollie, go back and take the shot”!

The more you watch it, the worse it looks actually. Handball every day of the week, and twice on Saturday.

View attachment 1084528

It was a bad and selfish play, which was compounded by his absolute shank.

Correct. Should never turn your back on the play. The coaches will hammer this home. In a tight game this could be the difference.

Clarko will make him pay imo. It's the quintessential team first option and a guaranteed 6 points. Ollie strikes the set shot a bit better and its out on the full. We lose and the narrative for our club changes completely. We won by a point despite dominating large portions of the game.

Even during our recent glory years posters on here would lament a player trying to be too unselfish inside 50. That is, trying to spot up a player in a better position and fluffing the pass. Despite these errors Clarko would have lauded the team first mentality.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Throughout VFL/AFL history, there's been several players who show up every week and do JUST enough to keep their place in the side (I used to think that about Ben Dixon, for example). Tim O'Brien takes this to another level. Almost a decade into his Hawthorn career, he must have come so very close to being dropped, and dropped for the last time, when he bobs up out of the blue, takes a big mark and kicks an important goal and BANG, he's suddenly back in the good books again. Clinging on for dear life....for eight years.

That's your opinion mate but I disagree he is a workhorse for the team as Brishawk so aptly put it.

 

[On Topic]

Does anyone else have the feeling Day might attract some extra physical attention this week. Especially if he has an impact early.

Dimma is a smart ruthless player/coach and will know how important Day was for us on the weekend.

The tigers are the current school yard bullies much like we were in our prime years. I'm interested to see just how highly rated Day is outside our club. If he is targeted it would be a huge compliment.

I don't think it will bother Will either.

I get the feeling he would thrive in that environment and it will bring out the best in him.

 

[Roddy]

That's your opinion mate but I disagree he is a workhorse for the team as Brishawk so aptly put it.

And of course, people trot out the same, tired old 'but he works hard!' copouts. He's a key forward, he's there to kick goals, not be a 'workhorse'. Or at least, in the course of being a 'workhorse', he should be kicking goals. At this point he is averaging .79 of a goal a game. For 8 years. That's woeful in just about anyone's language.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

That's your opinion mate but I disagree he is a workhorse for the team as Brishawk so aptly put it.

TOB was directly or indirectly involved in nearly all of our goals in the 3rd Q

 

[Brishawk]

And of course, people trot out the same, tired old 'but he works hard!' copouts. He's a key forward, he's there to kick goals, not be a 'workhorse'. Or at least, in the course of being a 'workhorse', he should be kicking goals. At this point he is averaging .79 of a goal a game. For 8 years. That's woeful in just about anyone's language.

If we had anyone better they would be in the team

 

[Roddy]

TOB was directly or indirectly involved in nearly all of our goals in the 3rd Q

Which is exactly and precisely my point.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Which is exactly and precisely my point.

so your point is he played very well on the weekend? i agree

 

[Roddy]

If we had anyone better they would be in the team

We have at least 2 far younger, developing key forwards who desperately need exposure at the highest level and games under their belts in this rebuilding phase we're going through.

 

[Roddy]

so your point is he played very well on the weekend? i agree

Oh man, it's like talking to a dead tree stump....

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I think the potential of our forward line setup could match the similar lineup of WCE
TO plays the Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

Role (Ruck/3rd Forward)
Two Key Talls (Kosi/Mitch - Darling/Kennedy)
Then your smalls

Becomes tricky with Gunno available but its a handy problem to have

 

[cs61]

O’Brien clearly has his limits, but I don’t see dropping him would make us more competitive for the Tigers. We’d prefer he took several more marks a game and more goals, but he does create a contest around the ground more than Lewis when Lewis isn’t marking, so can see why he’s got the role at the moment. That might change at some point but definitely not against the Tigers with his mobility. I was really glad we went the more mobile option against the Bombers as well. We may not have won if we went a different structure I feel.

When Gunston comes back it becomes more interesting what happens, but for now he stays if he can keep playing a role. I’m also interested in how Timmy goes under Macrae with some new forward structures and maybe a bit more space due to the new rules.

Lewis and perhaps soon Jeka will keep pressure on him, which is great, because if he doesn’t carry out his role effectively , we can perhaps go Lewis, Gunston, Kosi as an alternative at some stage.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Oh man, it's like talking to a dead tree stump....

how has he played poorly if he's been a major part of kicking 7 goals (i believe it was more than this anyway)

the game is not as black and white as forward kicking and not kicking goals anymore and even if you pretend that's not the case, he still kicked 2 which is a good return regardless

 

[The Chad and I]

Throughout VFL/AFL history, there's been several players who show up every week and do JUST enough to keep their place in the side (I used to think that about Ben Dixon, for example). Tim O'Brien takes this to another level. Almost a decade into his Hawthorn career, he must have come so very close to being dropped, and dropped for the last time, when he bobs up out of the blue, takes a big mark and kicks an important goal and BANG, he's suddenly back in the good books again. Clinging on for dear life....for eight years.

Tim O'Brien's strength as a junior was playing as a leading forward deep in the F50.
Maybe faster ball movement this season will see him on the end of better delivery and deeper in the F50.
I can see a formidable quartet with Lewis, Kosi, Gunston and TOB.

 

[Brishawk]

We have at least 2 far younger, developing key forwards who desperately need exposure at the highest level and games under their belts in this rebuilding phase we're going through.

Clarko disagrees.

 

[rei154]

As someone mentioned earlier, TOB was involved in almost every passage of play that lead to a goal in the third quarter against the Dons and kicked a couple himself.
His value is so evident in our lineup it's silly.
He's not so old that there isn't a chance that he's around during our next flag tilt and he's not performing terribly so I cannot imagine why he would be dropped at all. I agree that Lewis should be in the side, but if he comes in it won't be at the expense of TOB. I remember at the start of last season we were talking about having three talls in our forward line (excluding Gunston) in Lewis, TOB and Patton- I think we'll see something similar but with Kosi to feature instead of Patton.
Kosi and TOB both present super athletic targets who can impact all around the ground, whilst Lewis has also shown that he can deliver into 50 as well as he receives. They both also provide defensive alternatives should our back half come under fire.

If we're going to be comparing our forward line to any I think it's clear we're looking at the WCE model and aiming to emulate that with a few Clarko twists. I can see us mixing up the personel in our front end, but I think TOB will be in the side all year unless he gets injured. This means the other tall/hybrid spots will have Kosi, Lewis, and hopefully Jeka rotate through them. I'd love to see Kosi Jeka and Lewis all in the same side but that won't be happening in the first half of the year.

Interestingly enough I think when Clarko talks about our mids needing to offer another dimension in their playstyle to get a game I think that's starting to apply to our tall stocks too:
TOB: kpf/hhf/kpb/df
Lewis:KPF/Ruck
Kosi: KPF/KPB
Jeka: KPF/??? (would love to see him take on a wing role/hhf at bhh at times)
Patton: KPF/Ruck

 

[LMGjr]

Who would he take votes off? Maybe CJ?

Maybe, or reduce the votes given to Jom and Mitch (though both really put in at various stages) because Hardwick was bloody important as well; one thing i do know is if this is the least of our problems we did alright.

Wouldn't minded Tobby getting a few just for the melts. See I'm learning .

 

[KermitJagger]

We have at least 2 far younger, developing key forwards who desperately need exposure at the highest level and games under their belts in this rebuilding phase we're going through.

There's ample opportunity for both of those young key forwards to impose themselves on the team if they perform to a good level. Mitch Lewis based on reports looks close to getting back into the side, but obviously they rewarded form (Kosi) and readiness (TOB) ahead of him for Round 1.

James Sicily kicked 8 goals in a VFL match before he ever got a look in at AFL level, he spent 2 years learning the system there and it never impeded his ability to perform at an AFL level.

Feels really strange you've decided to ditch TOB now when he had a real impact on us winning on the weekend. He didn't have a bad game, isn't exorbitantly old and offers flexibility more than either Lewis or Jeka at present moment.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Just a heads up for anyone going to the game on Sunday
You must download the “Services Victoria” app to be able to scan at the turnstiles (if going in a group only 1 of you needs the app)
If you don’t you cannot enter the ground until you do
Also get there earlier as it will take longer to get in
Stuart Fox on SEN just now

I assume this is for all games

 

[threesixpio]

As someone mentioned earlier, TOB was involved in almost every passage of play that lead to a goal in the third quarter against the Dons and kicked a couple himself.
His value is so evident in our lineup it's silly.
He's not so old that there isn't a chance that he's around during our next flag tilt and he's not performing terribly so I cannot imagine why he would be dropped at all. I agree that Lewis should be in the side, but if he comes in it won't be at the expense of TOB. I remember at the start of last season we were talking about having three talls in our forward line (excluding Gunston) in Lewis, TOB and Patton- I think we'll see something similar but with Kosi to feature instead of Patton.
Kosi and TOB both present super athletic targets who can impact all around the ground, whilst Lewis has also shown that he can deliver into 50 as well as he receives. They both also provide defensive alternatives should our back half come under fire.

If we're going to be comparing our forward line to any I think it's clear we're looking at the WCE model and aiming to emulate that with a few Clarko twists. I can see us mixing up the personel in our front end, but I think TOB will be in the side all year unless he gets injured. This means the other tall/hybrid spots will have Kosi, Lewis, and hopefully Jeka rotate through them. I'd love to see Kosi Jeka and Lewis all in the same side but that won't be happening in the first half of the year.

Interestingly enough I think when Clarko talks about our mids needing to offer another dimension in their playstyle to get a game I think that's starting to apply to our tall stocks too:
TOB: kpf/hhf/kpb/df
Lewis:KPF/Ruck
Kosi: KPF/KPB
Jeka: KPF/??? (would love to see him take on a wing role/hhf at bhh at times)
Patton: KPF/Ruck

Yep versatility is loved by Clarko and it applies all over the ground

great post

 

[LMGjr]

That's your opinion mate but I disagree he is a workhorse for the team as Brishawk so aptly put it.

If he started taking the pack marks every time we'd be calling him Peter Knights.

I think we're lucky to have a player that is so close that the only thing to whinge about is the fact he doesn't quite complete what is now a dead art in Aussie Rules Footy.

 

[threesixpio]

I think TD’s point is most valid. We wouldn’t be having this discussion but for the two rucks. With only BB I reckon TOB, Kosi and Lewis walk into this team. Hanrahan could come out for Nash though too. That’s what I reckon anyway