List Mgmt. Squad post rebuild > finals push 2024

BronCrow

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Don’t agree with all of this but your main point is important and gets overlooked a bit. We haven’t landed many early to mid career top end players lately. Eddie Betts is the only one I can think of. But we’ve lost plenty. It’s very hard to compete with clubs getting a steady flow the other way.
I could argue that Darren Jarman would be another. Otherwise agree with you though.
 

BronCrow

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I understand the need to end up with a better side than what you started with.
You are aware this takes more than 2 drafts to complete, aren't you?

We are having to undo a lot of the poor drafting from the last 5-10 years. Our first selections in this period would show this.
 

Jack is Back

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Just keep looking at those rating points. I'll watch him play and notice that a full time midfielder has averaged 21 touches in 6 of 8 games. I think his 8 games this year carry a bit more weight than the 32 that preceded them.
Sloane started the season slowly, coming back from a disrupted preseason. He had a great game against the Gold Coast but injured his eye. After missing 5 matches he has been steadily improving and had 23 disposals against Collingwood despite spending quite a bit of time at half back (something you didn’t appear to noticej.

Although Sloaney has had a few challenges this year, he was ranked in the top 10 most improved players this year by AFL ratings.

It’s been a tough year for Trolls, let alone Troll-lites. Sometimes I wonder if you ”watch” the matches on 5aa.
 
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You are aware this takes more than 2 drafts to complete, aren't you?

We are having to undo a lot of the poor drafting from the last 5-10 years. Our first selections in this period would show this.
Yes. I'm also aware that good players retire/leave as time passes and they also need to be replaced, in addition to reducing the current shortfall of good players.

And that young Players become experienced good players who, if they have any ambition, will not want to stay at Adelaide if it remains in its current state.
 

Murray2503

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It's a pretty yuck core.

Sloane is regressing. Seedsman is a candidate for a bad regression in 2022 (having a career year in 2021, and will be on the wrong side of 30 next year). Crouch if he's still here and Ben Keays are effectively the same player (with Crouch being the slightly richer version). Laird is good.

It's adequate for a team who is rebuilding, but we're definitely waiting on the kids to replace this bunch.
The future core group that will drive us forward are Thilthorpe, Berry, Schoenberg, Butts, Doedee, Worrell, Sholl, Hamill, Pedlar, Milera, McHenry, Keays, Hinge, Cook, Fogarty. I think we are a couple of drafts away but more importantly we must target some quality experienced players around the 21-23 age bracket. I feel the priority at present is to build a better defence so that we are a lot harder to score against. The midfield is coming along nicely but we need a couple of elite mids either through draft or trade. I also wouldn't mind us going after Grundy if we get him for 600k per year with Collingwood paying the remainder of his contract. Would then trade ROB. I would also target someone like Brennan Cox down back who would add some strength to our backline. Don't mind the look of Parnell once he puts some weight and strength on as a long term replacement for Brown. I would also target a quality small like a Rankine which we desperately need up forward. We also need another KPF to complement Thilthorpe. I see Fogarty as more of your third tall lead up type. Coleman-Jonrs we should be targetting hard as a replacement for Walker. I could see Thilthorpe and Coleman-Jones as our keys for 10 years.
 
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I think we just need genuine talent. We have some good young players but outside Thilthorpe I don't think we have any superstars. I'd be dissapointed if we didn't hit the next few drafts with as many high picks as possible including trying to trade up where we can.

I know that sounds really obvious but I wouldn't be trading any picks for 21-23 years unless they are in the Lukosius or Rankine category.
 

skittlebrew

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In regards to Grundy I would be happy for the club to pay him 500k a year with Collingwood paying the remaining 400k per year. They did a similar deal with Treloar to free up salary so i can see a similar deal taking place with us. ROB would be on 500-600k minimum so this would be a big win for us to trade ROB out and bring Grundy in. We are going nowhere with ROB as our ruckman. The other move I would make is offering Bolton 950k a year for 5. He would likely win us 3 or 4 games off his own boot. Lastly we should go after Brennan Cox down back from Freo. Is a South Australian so it shouldn't be hard to get him home and he would be a great replacement for Talia. Butts and Cox down back would see us through for 10 years.

Collingwood still need to get rid of more money off the books but they won't be doing another deal like Treloars again. Fire sales don't come around too often. The Grundy ship has sailed and fortunately so - you don't want that much money tied up in a ruck.

We already took our shot at Bolton and missed. Kudos to our list management team there. We identified the talent and by the sounds of it threw the house at him. Didn't pull it off but didn't die wondering. Need to try the same with other developing players.
 
The future core group that will drive us forward are Thilthorpe, Berry, Schoenberg, Butts, Doedee, Worrell, Sholl, Hamill, Pedlar, Milera, McHenry, Keays, Hinge, Cook, Fogarty. I think we are a couple of drafts away but more importantly we must target some quality experienced players around the 21-23 age bracket. I feel the priority at present is to build a better defence so that we are a lot harder to score against. The midfield is coming along nicely but we need a couple of elite mids either through draft or trade. I also wouldn't mind us going after Grundy if we get him for 600k per year with Collingwood paying the remainder of his contract. Would then trade ROB. I would also target someone like Brennan Cox down back who would add some strength to our backline. Don't mind the look of Parnell once he puts some weight and strength on as a long term replacement for Brown. I would also target a quality small like a Rankine which we desperately need up forward. We also need another KPF to complement Thilthorpe. I see Fogarty as more of your third tall lead up type. Coleman-Jonrs we should be targetting hard as a replacement for Walker. I could see Thilthorpe and Coleman-Jones as our keys for 10 years.

At the moment I have it at Thilthorpe, Berry, Schoenberg, Sholl and Butts as the future core. Too many question marks around the rest, or I don't think their role warrants it, for me to want to include them just yet. Pedlar I expect will join that group once he starts to get a couple of AFL games under his belt. Looks a very likely prospect though.

Defense is in an ok spot, though its very young and the midfield is a bit shambolic at times. It's really waiting on McAsey to take the next step though, or for Worrell to develop a passable shutdown game to tie it into place... or both, both would be nice. We certainly haven't helped matters by only playing with one KPD. I'm personally hoping McPherson gets over his 2nd year blues and becomes that Brown replacement. I don't see Parnell as a Brown replacement. More Smith, as there are too many offensive tools there to blunt as a lockdown defender. Though, it seems better to revisit this area at the end of next year and hope that Butts isn't a one-season wonder.

Midfield is in an ok spot. Schoenberg and Berry are looking likely to have very good careers at the moment, and Pedlar isn't too far away from joining them. It definitely needs more. Keays is a nice piece to have floating around as well. Really, I'd be laser focused here this off-season, trying to find 2-3 more players who could pad Scho-Berry out. ROB is having a rough season, but I'm not interested in trading him at this point, he'll work through his issues and he's likely decently cheap. Though we really need to get a development ruck this season just to make sure we have some coverage in the future.

Fogarty is probably better off as our 2nd tall (and will likely build a good relationship with Filthy, seeing they look pretty in sync at the moment), but Thilthorpe is the Walker replacement. We want that boy having every opportunity imaginable to get the ball in his hands. Another player I wouldn't sleep on having a long career is Gollant as a third tall, especially if we don't end up Coleman-Jones. Small forwards could do with another dangerous piece though I'm not selling the farm for it at this point. It can wait for a year or two, or hopefully Newchurch clicks.

Definitely needs a good draft or two to really tie it all in at the moment though.
 
I actually worry we're going too good for a rebuild

If we continue like this we'll need shrewd FA/trades like Lynch/Jenkins/Betts/Jacobs and steals in the draft like Laird/Sloane etc.

If we cant get that. We'll be average forever, and need to play our draft hand well and hit the draft at the right time, ie. Port Adelaide 2018ND to even try and nab an undeserving premiership.
 
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I think we just need genuine talent. We have some good young players but outside Thilthorpe I don't think we have any superstars. I'd be dissapointed if we didn't hit the next few drafts with as many high picks as possible including trying to trade up where we can.

I know that sounds really obvious but I wouldn't be trading any picks for 21-23 years unless they are in the Lukosius or Rankine category.
Mids , mids and more mids. Not HBF not small defenders , mids.

All picks this year, bar a rookie, need to be mids the rookie a KPD.

Otherwise, mids. Mids with pace would be optimum
 
Mids , mids and more mids. Not HBF not small defenders , mids.

All picks this year, bar a rookie, need to be mids the rookie a KPD.

Otherwise, mids. Mids with pace would be optimum
I wouldn't be opposed in the 3rd round or later taking a project ruckman
Or if there is a star KPD available early, take him

But that's the ONLY reasons Id accept not going a mid

Id rather bust on a mid with pick 5 than get a 3rd tall forward.
 

CrowInFiji

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Having read some comments about flag contention being a decade away from a spoon have clearly not been watching the comp very long. History has proven that wrong several times over. If it takes you 10 years to complete a fulll rebuild and be in the hunt then things have gone very wrong.
 

ABAB

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Having read some comments about flag contention being a decade away from a spoon have clearly not been watching the comp very long. History has proven that wrong several times over. If it takes you 10 years to complete a fulll rebuild and be in the hunt then things have gone very wrong.
Agree, it normally take 6 years (like we normally take) but I think another few years more this time given the list transition wasn't smooth as previous and we did a hard cut and then immediately lost a year to development due to COVID-19. If it take 10 years then we are in the realm of Carlton failing a rebuild and having to do another rebuild.
 
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I wouldn't be opposed in the 3rd round or later taking a project ruckman
Or if there is a star KPD available early, take him

But that's the ONLY reasons Id accept not going a mid

Id rather bust on a mid with pick 5 than get a 3rd tall forward.

Perhaps I wouldn't want to see us taking a kpd in our first 2 picks unless they were head and shoulders above anything else.
 
Having read some comments about flag contention being a decade away from a spoon have clearly not been watching the comp very long. History has proven that wrong several times over. If it takes you 10 years to complete a fulll rebuild and be in the hunt then things have gone very wrong.
Yeah no. You should look it up

Spoon to flag since 1990
Brisbane - 3 years
West Coast - 8 years
Sydney - 11 years
Collingwood - 11 years
Richmond - 13 years
Western Bulldogs - 14 years
GWS - ongoing (9 years)
Gold Coast - ongoing (10 years)
Carlton - ongoing (19 years)
Fremantle - ongoing (20 years)
St Kilda - ongoing (21 years)
Melbourne - ongoing (24 years)

Also ongoing: Brisbane, Essendon, Adelaide

If you do it in 10 years you have done really well
 

ABAB

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Yeah no. You should look it up

Spoon to flag since 1990
Brisbane - 3 years
West Coast - 8 years
Sydney - 11 years
Collingwood - 11 years
Richmond - 13 years
Western Bulldogs - 14 years
GWS - ongoing (9 years)
Gold Coast - ongoing (10 years)
Carlton - ongoing (19 years)
Fremantle - ongoing (20 years)
St Kilda - ongoing (21 years)
Melbourne - ongoing (24 years)

Also ongoing: Brisbane, Essendon, Adelaide

If you do it in 10 years you have done really well
He said contend for the premiership, no doubt you need luck to win a premiership and we didn't get them with season injuries in 05/06 and 17, and lost a preliminary by 1 point in 12.
 

PsychoG

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Personally I think we can be pushing for finals 2022 with 2023 more likely. There's a reason you always hear about "5 year plans" because that's the time frame you could take a struggling team into a contending window.

Y1: The bottom out.
Y2: Improvement, likely still bottom 6
Y3: Push for finals, top 10 a pass
Y4: Make finals, hopefully win at least 1
Y5: Top 4-6, genuinely contend the flag

That's the ideal, sometimes it can take an extra 1-2 years but thats the blueprint

My hopeful 2023 best 22 at this stage (While trying to be realistic) would be:

FB: Murphy - Butts - Doedee
HF: Smith - Murray - Jones
C: Sholl - Laird - Milera
HF: Schoenberg - Fogarty - Rankine
FF: Dudley - Thilthorpe - Cook
Foll: O'Brian - Keays - Berry
Int: Hately - Hamill - Pedlar - McHenry

Emg: McAsey - McPherson - Hinge - Worrell

Really think we need better small/mid options up forward than McAdam and Rowe and still think Rankine could be really special. Need to throw everything at him IMO. If we draft an elite mid who could come right in, you could drop Hately out for them too.

Working under the assumption that Walker, Sloane, Talia, MacKay, Seedsman, Brown, Kelly and Lynch will be either gone or no longer best 22 by this stage.
 
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Yeah no. You should look it up

Spoon to flag since 1990
Brisbane - 3 years
West Coast - 8 years
Sydney - 11 years
Collingwood - 11 years
Richmond - 13 years
Western Bulldogs - 14 years
GWS - ongoing (9 years)
Gold Coast - ongoing (10 years)
Carlton - ongoing (19 years)
Fremantle - ongoing (20 years)
St Kilda - ongoing (21 years)
Melbourne - ongoing (24 years)

Also ongoing: Brisbane, Essendon, Adelaide

If you do it in 10 years you have done really well
But some teams went through rebuilds within spoon year and their premiership

You say 11 years Collingwood - But in 2005ish they crashed and got that priority draft pick
Hawthorn not listed there, but they were 2nd bottom around 03-04ish to bring in their talent to nab 2008.

So yes, neither of them hit rock bottom in their rebuild, but they got their premiership in 5 years. But that doesn't help with your narrative does it
 
He said contend for the premiership, no doubt you need luck to win a premiership and we didn't get them with season injuries in 05/06 and 17, and lost a preliminary by 1 point in 12.

There are several instances where a team has made the GF and lost in less than 10 years. Several of them are smashings: Melbourne, West Coast, Sydney and GWS all got flogged because they weren't good enough.

Collingwood was competitive against Brisbane. Other teams have taken a decade like St Kilda and Fremantle to get there, were competitive but still didn't win.
 
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But some teams went through rebuilds within spoon year and their premiership

You say 11 years Collingwood - But in 2005ish they tanked and got that priority draft pick
Hawthorn not listed there, but they were 2nd bottom around 03-04ish to bring in their talent to nab 2008.

So yes, neither of them hit rock bottom in their rebuild, but they got their premiership in 5 years. But that doesn't help with your narrative does it

Collingwood was rebuild 2 (or a "top up") that you listed. Finished 3rd last in 1998, spoon 1999, flag in 2010. 12 years

Hawthorn's rebuild was attempt 2. They finished 2nd last in 1995 and 1997. 1995 to 2008 is 13 years
 
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CrowInFiji

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Yeah no. You should look it up

Spoon to flag since 1990
Brisbane - 3 years
West Coast - 8 years
Sydney - 11 years
Collingwood - 11 years
Richmond - 13 years
Western Bulldogs - 14 years
GWS - ongoing (9 years)
Gold Coast - ongoing (10 years)
Carlton - ongoing (19 years)
Fremantle - ongoing (20 years)
St Kilda - ongoing (21 years)
Melbourne - ongoing (24 years)

Also ongoing: Brisbane, Essendon, Adelaide

If you do it in 10 years you have done really well

As it has already been pointed out to you flags do not equal flag contention. Being there or thereabouts should never be a 10 year process. Only one team can win it each year and there are 18 teams.

The job of list management is to build a list capable of contending and winning a flag, not to actually win the flag. When you discuss rebuild you are talking about list management and development, not gameday coaching and tactics.

It also matters not at all that some teams have made the GF and got smashed - running into Hawthorn circa 2012-2015 and playing them at home in the GF and losing isn't a failure of list management and rebuilds. They were an extraordinary team and playing at home. Only Sydney managed to vanquish them in 2012. West Coast making a GF 3 or 4 years after their spoon was also extraordinary. They then went on to win the flag 8 years post rebuild, thinking 10+ years is acceptable is just downright timid in a business where ambition is vital.

Otherwise you may as well resign yourself to the 1 every 18 years mantra. Yawn.

Collingwood spoon in 99 to successive GFs in 2002 and 2003. Many other examples.

Carlton and Melbourne being so shite for a decade doesn't prove any rule other than it takes that goddamn long when you severely mismanage your list and recruitment.
 
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Personally I think we can be pushing for finals 2022 with 2023 more likely. There's a reason you always hear about "5 year plans" because that's the time frame you could take a struggling team into a contending window.

Y1: The bottom out.
Y2: Improvement, likely still bottom 6
Y3: Push for finals, top 10 a pass
Y4: Make finals, hopefully win at least 1
Y5: Top 4-6, genuinely contend the flag

That's the ideal, sometimes it can take an extra 1-2 years but thats the blueprint

My hopeful 2023 best 22 at this stage (While trying to be realistic) would be:

FB: Murphy - Butts - Doedee
HF: Smith - Murray - Jones
C: Sholl - Laird - Milera
HF: Schoenberg - Fogarty - Rankine
FF: Dudley - Thilthorpe - Cook
Foll: O'Brian - Keays - Berry
Int: Hately - Hamill - Pedlar - McHenry

Emg: McAsey - McPherson - Hinge - Worrell

Really think we need better small/mid options up forward than McAdam and Rowe and still think Rankine could be really special. Need to throw everything at him IMO. If we draft an elite mid who could come right in, you could drop Hately out for them too.

Working under the assumption that Walker, Sloane, Talia, MacKay, Seedsman, Brown, Kelly and Lynch will be either gone or no longer best 22 by this stage.
Going by your logic 2020 would be the bottom out (spoon).
2021. Improve but bottom six.
2022. Push for finals (top 10).
2023. Finals.
2024. Top 6.
2025. Top 2.
 
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We have our KPD set in Butts and McAsey and our KPF in RT and Fog.

I think it’s the x-factor in the midfield this year as we desperately need it and I think we will be fine in the future.

Next season look at trying to lure Rankine in the forwardline
 

PsychoG

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Going by your logic 2020 would be the bottom out (spoon).
2021. Improve but bottom six.
2022. Push for finals (top 10).
2023. Finals.
2024. Top 6.
2025. Top 2.
I don't think that is completely unreasonable, it would require a steady improvement curve for sure (Essentially improving on average 3 spots on the ladder each season) but I don't feel it's an unrealistic target.
 
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