Universal Love David Teague

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As mentioned before, sometimes wins against bottom teams can blur some of the bigger issues. I was grateful that we won yesterday but if we had played a top team, we would not have been in the game at 3qtr time and our good quarter we played would not have meant anything.

It is not OK to play well for a quarter, even if we win.

I am worried that our culture of mediocracy will win out because of wins like these.
 
Jorge said:
This year Teague has managed to extract strong improvement from Cuningham (until injured), Kennedy, Owies, Dow, Silvagni & Stocker.

Its also worth remembering that Harry kicked 21 goals last year and is probably the most improved player in the league (maybe behind Walsh)

Cripps, TDK, Martin, Williams, Fisher, McGovern & Curnow have all had their pre season or seasons interrupted.

There is still plenty of improvement left in this team.

Teague needs to show some genuine tactical nous in the coaches box but from an individuals perspective this season is becoming a strong pass.
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This is what I find interesting. I don't want Teague sacked as he has shown the previous two years he has tactical nous. Moving players around to kick start comebacks etc and the way we move the ball.

This year, not so much. It seems he has decided he is trying to settle on a style he won't budge from much. Understandable, as he wants to build a brand. But it doesn't seem to be working. I hope he goes away over the summer and redraws his ideas.

We have two key defenders dominating the air but this doesn't translate to control of the defensive half. We don't have patterns inside 50 to create space for our leading forwards. It only happened in the last qtr, yesterday when we hit a couple of targets just inside 50 and converted those chances to goals were the Pies forced to not defend so deep. Then space opened up. It is something that should have happened earlier in the game.

Already we are seeing our midfield improve. We only need a few tweaks to our game style and that's where good assistants will be the key.
 

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Stamos said:
Well, that's only 1 game. I think there are others that are much more significant.
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Cripps was on one leg against the geebungs. We lost. But not because he was on one leg, but because of our yips up front. 1.13 at one point, convert 5 of those to goals and suddenly the ball game is on.

Our midfield is tightening up and is starting to run both ways and are providing defensive pressure Through the middle and into the half back line. And it’s definitely supporting our defensive lines efforts. Now the forward line, which is undermanned for talls, needs to be sorted.
 
woof39 said:
As mentioned before, sometimes wins against bottom teams can blur some of the bigger issues. I was grateful that we won yesterday but if we had played a top team, we would not have been in the game at 3qtr time and our good quarter we played would not have meant anything.

It is not OK to play well for a quarter, even if we win.

I am worried that our culture of mediocracy will win out because of wins like these.
Click to expand...

I worry that Teague doesn't have the coaching skill set to get the best out of our talented list.
 
Triniboy said:
Well its close to 4weeks when I posted the above...

Well its close on 3 months since I posted the above (in particular selection and blooding of young players)...I'm not the only one that's raised this however I'm totally fing gobsmacked its taken so long for the coach/selectors to wake up and select/play regularly the likes of Dow, Kennedy (24yr), Owies and Cottrell etc!!!...what most concerns me is they (coach and selectors) are supposedly experienced football people and well paid...would someone please explain why they don't see what we joepublic supporters see/think...and should they be retained.
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code = I think I was right and people need to see that......
 
HBF said:
I worry that Teague doesn't have the coaching skill set to get the best out of our talented list.
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He may not today, but then our list probably isn't going to be "flag-ready" for at least two more years. Very rare for a side to fly into the 8 and win a flag without having the requisite few years of finals appearances and associated experience.

So the question may be more "If we invest in our football department, will Teague have the coaching skill set in two or three years to get the absolute best out of our talented list".

Hard question to answer, I suppose. Hence the review?
 
It's hard to gauge one way or the other. We spent 2 months playing top of the table sides, only to end the season against decidedly more average opposition. Our structure is also decimated through injuries, so makes it harder again to judge.

We haven't really improved over last season. We're a predictable side. Lose to the teams above us, win against the ordinary sides, 50/50 against middle of the table opposition.

I haven't seen enough from Teague to say that he'll be a good coach. Haven't seen enough to say he won't be. But if a Lyon or Clarkson are gettable, both proven, top-shelf coaches, we'd be foolish not to strongly consider them.
 
Dramoth said:
Cripps was on one leg against the geebungs. We lost. But not because he was on one leg, but because of our yips up front. 1.13 at one point, convert 5 of those to goals and suddenly the ball game is on.

Our midfield is tightening up and is starting to run both ways and are providing defensive pressure Through the middle and into the half back line. And it’s definitely supporting our defensive lines efforts. Now the forward line, which is undermanned for talls, needs to be sorted.
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Wonder if Luke Power has anything to do with this given who's playing midfield and the way they're playing.
 
blues4flag said:
It's hard to gauge one way or the other. We spent 2 months playing top of the table sides, only to end the season against decidedly more average opposition. Our structure is also decimated through injuries, so makes it harder again to judge.

We haven't really improved over last season. We're a predictable side. Lose to the teams above us, win against the ordinary sides, 50/50 against middle of the table opposition.

I haven't seen enough from Teague to say that he'll be a good coach. Haven't seen enough to say he won't be. But if a Lyon or Clarkson are gettable, both proven, top-shelf coaches, we'd be foolish not to strongly consider them.
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It's an interesting one, isn't it.

Lost to Richmond when they were at their strongest for the year, they've been on a downward spiral since.
Deplorable performance against Collingwood.
Beat the Dockers and Suns, as we'd expect to.
Lost to Port and Brisbane, as we'd expect to.
Beat Essendon, EAD bombres.
Lost to WB and Melbourne, expected.
Beat the Hawks, expected.
Lost to Sydney, stings a bit.
Lost to West Coast and the Giants, should have been better.
Beat the Crows, they too can EAD.
Beat Freo again, expected.
Lost to Geelong, expected.
Beat the Pies, expected, but they'd been on a mini-resurgence.

I'm seeing four games (bolded) where the result (the result, mind, not the method) was a genuine disappointment. Win two of those and we're in the eight. But winning against two of those sides wouldn't have meant any more than winning against Collingwood this week, or Freo before that.

We're genuinely not that far away from where I'd have expected us to be. The kicker is, do we have the personnel in place to fix the issues that have plagued us this season.

Games coming up against North, GC, St Kilda and GWS will be telling. An unexpected win against Port could be a huge curveball, and we're due one of those wins.
 
Blue__Balls said:
He may not today, but then our list probably isn't going to be "flag-ready" for at least two more years. Very rare for a side to fly into the 8 and win a flag without having the requisite few years of finals appearances and associated experience.

So the question may be more "If we invest in our football department, will Teague have the coaching skill set in two or three years to get the absolute best out of our talented list".

Hard question to answer, I suppose. Hence the review?
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I didn't think we'd be flag ready this year, but I also thought we'd be playing better footy as well.
These lapses in games continue to haunt us, and lets be honest aside from maybe Essendon we really haven't had any major scalps this year.
Just don't see Teague as the coach who can take us forward.
 
TENACIOUS said:
Kudos to Teague and Co yesterday...
Thought we played much better for four quarters defensively, but just couldn't connect with forwards for the first 3 quarters...
Then we lowered our eyes in the last and hit the free target.. Why cant we do it for 4 quarters..

On Teague, my opinion really hasn't changed..
If Clarkson, Scott or Lyon are available we should move on them.. If not we should stick with Teague...

Truly think a Clarkson, Scott or Lyon would get more out our list, fix our culture and build the club toward sustained success..

Although I'd like the club to make a decision and bring some long term stability,
I wouldn't be extending Teague until we see how he performs to this time next year...
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Totally fair point of view regarding Teague and who is available.

I have a slightly different take as I would prefer the club to make 2 separate decisions.

1. is Teague our man for 2022 but also for the next 10 years?

We should be either in or out. Yes or no? We have seen enough red flags to suggest this question needs to be visited now rather then hanging on another year.

If we decide that Teague isn't up to our standards and those coaches you listed are not available (and we stay with Teague), we are basically declaring we are happy with mediocracy. Sticking with a coach when its decided that there is less than 100% confidence in his ability to coach, will just set us back another year.

If we decide that we are 100% behind Teague and he is the man for the job, then great, we look at bolstering the support around him. Only those within the club can answer these questions.

If we move on. then we ask the separate question:

2. Who is the new coach?
 
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Blue__Balls said:
It's an interesting one, isn't it.

Lost to Richmond when they were at their strongest for the year, they've been on a downward spiral since.
Deplorable performance against Collingwood.
Beat the Dockers and Suns, as we'd expect to.
Lost to Port and Brisbane, as we'd expect to.
Beat Essendon, EAD bombres.
Lost to WB and Melbourne, expected.
Beat the Hawks, expected.
Lost to Sydney, stings a bit.
Lost to West Coast and the Giants, should have been better.
Beat the Crows, they too can EAD.
Beat Freo again, expected.
Lost to Geelong, expected.
Beat the Pies, expected, but they'd been on a mini-resurgence.

I'm seeing four games (bolded) where the result (the result, mind, not the method) was a genuine disappointment. Win two of those and we're in the eight. But winning against two of those sides wouldn't have meant any more than winning against Collingwood this week, or Freo before that.

We're genuinely not that far away from where I'd have expected us to be. The kicker is, do we have the personnel in place to fix the issues that have plagued us this season.

Games coming up against North, GC, St Kilda and GWS will be telling. An unexpected win against Port could be a huge curveball, and we're due one of those wins.
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You're badly glossing over Port who were due and Brisbane who weren't great then, both at home.
Also the Dogs to be honest.
 

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I don't think it is about Teague or no Teague - I think it is about the whole football department - meaning all the coaches and the person(s) they report to. I also think that a major issue to be dealt with is if there is a need to improve the assistants around Teague- who are they and will they come to work under a Teague as Head Coach. What can working with Teague do for their ambitions/careers? So is Teague more or less likely (in staying) - able to help improve the overall coaching resources at Carlton or not?

Same goes for any other prospective coach - what is the totality of their 'bring' to Carlton? Malthouse brought Buttifant over- and Carlton couldn't play 4 quarter football under the then highly rated Buttifant. So who do the prospective coaches bring (apart from their own track record whatever that is) to make the Carlton Football Club better as a coaching/development department?

The midfield performance has somewhat improved over the last few weeks- we are seeing Kennedy/Dow/Fisher/SPS/ rotated through now and we are seeing some players playing better football sans Barker - some are saying this may be due to Power's influence bt Power has made it clear he likes being a development coach and sees that as his preference and career interest. How does a bloke coming in for a couple of weeks out-perform people who had that responibility for years now- and for that to not point to serious coaching department issues?

Win/Loss aside I still see a lack of synergy between the lines at Carlton, still see a helter-skelter approach to defense and poor exit strategy from kick-ins - and still see a very dysfunctional forward line- too reliant on individual effort ( Harry/Eddie) and very little evidence of method.

So - there is a lot of 'fixing' to be done in order to get to a polished team game style - and less of an individual-based game style.

I don't know if Teague can or can't fix these things- it isn't like they aren't and haven't been obvious for a long time now.
 
Teague coming up on afl360 for those interested.

Jack silvagni is Gerard's Monday hero.
 
JustaBattler said:
Win/Loss aside I still see a lack of synergy between the lines at Carlton, still see a helter-skelter approach to defense and poor exit strategy from kick-ins - and still see a very dysfunctional forward line- too reliant on individual effort ( Harry/Eddie) and very little evidence of method.
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Said the same sort of thing last night -- Teague seems to rely on his line coaches and staff which is a good strategy for any head coach .. For he has a half back that is sitting behind him watching it unfold and blend into one cohesive unit -- he should be his eyes and ears and have an understanding of when change needs to made on all different levels -- there is a reason Niel Balme has been so successful at this and had great relationships with the coaches he has had under him and worked with -- I don't know if Brad Lloyd is that person to see problems before they manifest instead of everything being reactionary ..
 
azzablue16 said:
Eagles reserves side wiped the floor with us ,,, or did. You forget that
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That wasn't a reserves side, they were a team which at its core was still stacked with talented and experienced strong leaders. Just because some people were made to look foolish for their unrealistic expectations of just having to show up to win it doesn't make them a bad side.
 
Blue__Balls said:
It's an interesting one, isn't it.

Lost to Richmond when they were at their strongest for the year, they've been on a downward spiral since.
Deplorable performance against Collingwood.
Beat the Dockers and Suns, as we'd expect to.
Lost to Port and Brisbane, as we'd expect to.
Beat Essendon, EAD bombres.
Lost to WB and Melbourne, expected.
Beat the Hawks, expected.
Lost to Sydney, stings a bit.
Lost to West Coast and the Giants, should have been better.
Beat the Crows, they too can EAD.
Beat Freo again, expected.
Lost to Geelong, expected.
Beat the Pies, expected, but they'd been on a mini-resurgence.

I'm seeing four games (bolded) where the result (the result, mind, not the method) was a genuine disappointment. Win two of those and we're in the eight. But winning against two of those sides wouldn't have meant any more than winning against Collingwood this week, or Freo before that.

We're genuinely not that far away from where I'd have expected us to be. The kicker is, do we have the personnel in place to fix the issues that have plagued us this season.

Games coming up against North, GC, St Kilda and GWS will be telling. An unexpected win against Port could be a huge curveball, and we're due one of those wins.
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Interestingly the only unexpected results this season according to that list are losses.

Where is the unexpected win, a signature of a side on the rise? Maybe it's still to come, I think that's the issue though. A lot of sides have unexpected and poor results, including the top 4 teams. Every other team has those unexpected type wins to sort of off set them though.
 
gab213 said:
That wasn't a reserves side, they were a team which at its core was still stacked with talented and experienced strong leaders. Just because some people were made to look foolish for their unrealistic expectations of just having to show up to win it doesn't make them a bad side.
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eh nah, they were a reserves side playing at a ground they hadn't won at for yonks and then later got spanked at by the swans. They were missing huge numbers and playing players who should've been out. We should've been too good that day.
 
woof39 said:
As mentioned before, sometimes wins against bottom teams can blur some of the bigger issues. I was grateful that we won yesterday but if we had played a top team, we would not have been in the game at 3qtr time and our good quarter we played would not have meant anything.

It is not OK to play well for a quarter, even if we win.

I am worried that our culture of mediocracy will win out because of wins like these.
Click to expand...

We played a top team last week, we were atrocious and guess what? We were in the game at 3/4 time.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
eh nah, they were a reserves side playing at a ground they hadn't won at for yonks and then later got spanked at by the swans. They were missing huge numbers and playing players who should've been out. We should've been too good that day.
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Cripps , Darling, Gaff, Hurn, Naitanui, Redden, Ryan, Sheed, Waterman, Yeo...Not reserves IMO. If you're saying it wasn't their strongest side, I agree, but a reserves side? Not a chance.
 
woof39 said:
As mentioned before, sometimes wins against bottom teams can blur some of the bigger issues. I was grateful that we won yesterday but if we had played a top team, we would not have been in the game at 3qtr time and our good quarter we played would not have meant anything.

It is not OK to play well for a quarter, even if we win.

I am worried that our culture of mediocracy will win out because of wins like these.
Click to expand...
he's worried that our culture of mediocrity will win out because of wins like these.........................winning is bad, who knew?
 
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