Discussion Random Discussion (No Politics, Religion) - SHOW CHIN PASSPORT ON ENTRY

[StFly]

The great reset has been a dream for ever. Some way to reset capitalism in a fairer way. People hate change so doubt it happens. Here there was talk in politics that we could use the Covid disaster to reset our economy and find ways for a fairer system and our government went and gave the money set aside to rebuild the economy to the gas industry who pay no tax or royalties and are pirates. The great reset will be the great nothing happened and we'll just have to pay off the debt.

No chance anything changes from this structurally in that space. You have everyone worrying about money, the only thing which would happen is an attempt to get back to positive notions as quickly as possible by then squeezing whatever you can however hard you can and capitalism in its current state will continue on strong.

We don't have the will, fortitude or currently brains to do anything different, collectively in my view.

 

[pebblesofsand]

In his Philosophical Investigations , Ludwig Wittgenstein argues against the idea of a “private language.

Language, he maintains, is essentially social, and words get their meanings from the way they are used by communities of language users.

If he is right, and most philosophers think he is, then Humpty’s claim that he can decide for himself what words mean, is wrong.

 

[George]

The great reset has been a dream for ever. Some way to reset capitalism in a fairer way. People hate change so doubt it happens. Here there was talk in politics that we could use the Covid disaster to reset our economy and find ways for a fairer system and our government went and gave the money set aside to rebuild the economy to the gas industry who pay no tax or royalties and are pirates. The great reset will be the great nothing happened and we'll just have to pay off the debt.

Yeah lol, the people at those events are the ones who put us in the position we're in in the first place

 

[StFly]

View attachment 1188806

In his Philosophical Investigations , Ludwig Wittgenstein argues against the idea of a “private language.

Language, he maintains, is essentially social, and words get their meanings from the way they are used by communities of language users.

If he is right, and most philosophers think he is, then Humpty’s claim that he can decide for himself what words mean, is wrong.

He's both for mine.

Language is both the collection of sounds or how it is read, born from that particular alphabet, nothing more nothing less, however, language is ultimately useless without the social aspect of how a society perceives it and what meaning they then provide to said language. The debate for mine is in how much value is in each camp, as what is the point of language if it is not used.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

The great reset has been a dream for ever. Some way to reset capitalism in a fairer way. People hate change so doubt it happens. Here there was talk in politics that we could use the Covid disaster to reset our economy and find ways for a fairer system and our government went and gave the money set aside to rebuild the economy to the gas industry who pay no tax or royalties and are pirates. The great reset will be the great nothing happened and we'll just have to pay off the debt.

2008 GFC should have resetted the economy and killed Reganism/Thatcherism but we still let it run rampant, Covid recession/depression will last for a long time.

If you were born 1988 and later the economy for your adult life has screwed you in the west.

With generations soon being able to not own homes, have stable jobs, retire ect ect it could lead to a revelation.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He's both for mine.

Language is both the collection of sounds or how it is read, born from that particular alphabet, nothing more nothing less, however, language is ultimately useless without the social aspect of how a society perceives it and what meaning they then provide to said language. The debate for mine is in how much value is in each camp, as what is the point of language if it is not used.

Yet JJR toliken wrote Elvish, and ...someone derived Klingon.
Both these languages have been used to some extent , without ever having any social derivation.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Definitely plays a part in the surveillance and intrusion into people's privacy so of course it is part of a bigger issue. Serious issues...lol, try another insult.


Did you even read it LOL. It's easy to play that game anyway;

When will COVID-19 vaccines be fully approved—and does it matter whether they are?

Physicians urge FDA to “work on the weekends” to speed approval because it may help boost vaccination rates

www.sciencemag.org

I don't even know why you are trying to argue with me on this point, I've already said it's safe and I would take it. Doesn't mean it's not experimental. Could you perhaps separate the two points so you don't have to waste your time? Taking 5 words out of a post to try and show it's a safe vaccine when the person you quoted has already said that. Jesus.

Except it's not experimental by the literal definition of experimental medicine lmao. The pre human trials and all stages of clinical trials, otherwise known as experiments, have finished on the vaccines used in Australia. Hence, these vaccines are no longer experimental. That is the point that I, and others, keep telling you. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[George]

Except it's not experimental by the literal definition of experimental medicine lmao. The pre human trials and all stages of clinical trials, otherwise known as experiments, have finished on the vaccines used in Australia. Hence, these vaccines are no longer experimental. That is the point that I, and others, keep telling you. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's great, I will wait for more information on them before taking it. I still think it's hilarious that you've chosen this point to bang on about when I've said plenty of times already that it is safe and I probably will eventually take it. At this point, having a back and forth about if it is experimental or not when we both agree it's safe - is semantics. My point all along has not been and has never been about the quality of the vaccine despite your seemingly forceful attempt to turn it into a conversation about that. Are you purposefully missing the actual point of what I have been arguing? I don't get it. There's another here who can't separate the two and thinks that experimental = unsafe. Can't you separate those two things either?

You didn't address the fact that you took my comments out of context and misquoted me (never said there "was a legitimate likely risk of anything happening to people who take it" as you said I tried to insinuate (beats me where you came up with that one LOL) , and you have repeatedly missed the point of my argument. Perhaps just don't bother anymore.

 

[George]

LMAO

 

[Pardon me]

LMAO

"2 Alsatians apart" had me rolling!

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yet JJR toliken wrote Elvish, and ...someone derived Klingon.
Both these languages have been used to some extent , without ever having any social derivation.

He's both for mine.

Language is both the collection of sounds or how it is read, born from that particular alphabet, nothing more nothing less, however, language is ultimately useless without the social aspect of how a society perceives it and what meaning they then provide to said language. The debate for mine is in how much value is in each camp, as what is the point of language if it is not used.

Elvish, Klingon are languages for particular groups of people so they do have a social derivation. They are no different to the languages used by different countries and specific groups of professionals which are intelligible to the group but complete nonsense to everyone else.

Bit like me listening to someone speak Icelandic.

Wittgenstein raised (then dismissed) the possibility of a "private language" - a language where the user defines the meaning of the words so therefore it is completely unintelligible to anyone other than the user.



I had the feeling there was a bit of "private language" going on when I was reading the exchanges between George and Crusty.

Amazing where this place takes you some times!!!

 

[pebblesofsand]

Liam Mannix's pieces related to Covid have been really good reading.

These two linking how we assess risk and the mathematical consequences of getting (or not getting) vaccinated with AstraZeneca are great.

Worried about AstraZeneca? Me too. The way we think about risk might be the problem

The reason I’m worrying far more about AstraZeneca’s side effects than I probably should reveals how our brains think about risk. And how they often get it wrong.

www.theage.com.au

Doing the maths on AstraZeneca

If our brains are so bad at assessing risk, how do we rationally decide whether to have AstraZeneca’s vaccine?

www.theage.com.au

 

[gringo2011]

Just to show no-one really cares about politicians doing what ever they want and as to why they don't need conspiracy to steal s**t. Luckily someone with the kind of judgement to be involved in this s**t isn't running a state during a pandemic.

How a ceremony in NSW Parliament helped a company steal $46 million from retirees

The Premier's ex-boyfriend Daryl Maguire lent government legitimacy to companies now accused of swindling Australians and Chinese pensioners out of vast sums. Then she told him to "stay away".

www.abc.net.au

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Just to show no-one really cares about politicians doing what ever they want and as to why they don't need conspiracy to steal sh*t. Luckily someone with the kind of judgement to be involved in this sh*t isn't running a state during a pandemic.

How a ceremony in NSW Parliament helped a company steal $46 million from retirees

The Premier's ex-boyfriend Daryl Maguire lent government legitimacy to companies now accused of swindling Australians and Chinese pensioners out of vast sums. Then she told him to "stay away".

www.abc.net.au

Gladys should have been done via ICAC.

Barry O'Farrell got done for $1200 bottle of wine, which is small compared to this.

 

[bergholt]

Slippery slope when people start advocating for forcing anyone to do anything and dangerous that so many can't see that.

We live in a society so "force people to do things" all the time, and weird that so many can't see that. Two reasons:

- Personal choices that affect others have to be restricted or banned in a functioning society. Smoking and driving dangerously are very similar to not getting vaccinated - they have a small chance of killing or seriously affecting someone else. So we regulate them.

- Personal choices that end up costing society money have to be balanced up. We all still have to pay (through taxes) the hospital bills of someone who gets a negative outcome from their choice to smoke or drive dangerously or not get vaccinated. I don't want to pay any more tax than I have to, so I'd rather not have hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated people in hospital on ventilators costing thousands of dollars a day for their care.

If people are living in the middle of nowhere depending on society for nothing then sure, they can do what they want. If they want to live in society with everyone else then we're going to ask them to have minimal impact on everyone else.

It's really worrying when you see people backing the government so vehemently.

Completely agree with this. I fundamentally don't understand the muppets on Twitter who think Dan can do no wrong; or on the other side those who think that Gladys can do no wrong. It's super weird to me that people barrack for these people like a footy team, or worse, they don't even question anything.

And your points about creeping and encroaching government control are good in general. I just don't think the covid situation can proceed any other way, so politicising it as an example of creeping big government isn't useful.

And IMO we should worry more about big tech companies than governments. We're about 10-20 years away from a situation where the biggest companies have more power than any government except maybe China (if we're not already there). In the lifetime of our kids governments could be largely irrelevant and big companies could run the show. That will be clearly worse.

Agree everyone needs to do the right thing and play our part but that doesn’t mean we can’t question these moron politicians that have completely failed the public.
that’s federal- State and liberal and Labor they are a ******* joke

Completely agree Mow, the pollies are useless and self-serving, and the bureaucracy is largely incompetent. (Not necessarily any individuals, but as organisations they're pretty broken.) Any way of getting more scrutiny and more competence into public administration is gold imo.

I also think the fear mongering from politicians and media has been a disgrace and brainwashed (for lack of a better term) people into believing this disease is worse than it actually is.

Maybe. If we let it run right now it would kill 100k+. I have no idea if people think it's worse than that but realistically that number doesn't sound acceptable to me.

You think it's too hard for them to work together - what do you think of the WEF for example?

I know a couple of people who've been to Davos. It's basically just a big boring conference, same as any other. Probably some deals get done in backrooms etc but all these people know each other anyway, people who have private jets hang out with others who have private jets, it's not surprising.

 

[Yawkey way]

Just to show no-one really cares about politicians doing what ever they want and as to why they don't need conspiracy to steal sh*t. Luckily someone with the kind of judgement to be involved in this sh*t isn't running a state during a pandemic.

How a ceremony in NSW Parliament helped a company steal $46 million from retirees

The Premier's ex-boyfriend Daryl Maguire lent government legitimacy to companies now accused of swindling Australians and Chinese pensioners out of vast sums. Then she told him to "stay away".

www.abc.net.au

She’s shameless as is scomo, I knew watching those press conferences that Gladys would only ever die in battle.

 

[bergholt]

Perhaps being required to tell the government of our every movement via a QR check in.

Government already knows where we are most of the time, they have access to data from telcos, tech companies, payments companies. Unless you leave your mobile phone home when you go out, multiple organisations already know exactly where you are all the time, and can make a pretty good guess what you're doing there.

A mate in San Francisco works for a company called Palantir, who stitch a bunch of this stuff together. Years ago he looked me up on their system, it basically knew 95% of the places I'd been to in the last month, everything I'd purchased, etc.

As I said in another post, it's not governments that I'm particularly worried about. It's surveillance capitalism, the fact that our data is getting bought and sold and brokered and used across these huge companies and governments alike. Usually it's done with the best of intentions but presumably not always.

If you're only worried about governments then you're ignoring the main threat to your liberty imo.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Except it's not experimental by the literal definition of experimental medicine lmao. The pre human trials and all stages of clinical trials, otherwise known as experiments, have finished on the vaccines used in Australia. Hence, these vaccines are no longer experimental. That is the point that I, and others, keep telling you. Nothing more, nothing less.

People are underestimating (or not aware of) how much time is usually wasted on bureaucratic approval in the usual process of having a treatment/drug approved. A trial can sometimes sit in the IN tray on a pen pusher's desk for months before it is passed on to another pen pusher... imagine how stuffed around you can be waiting for local govt approval to build a bloody pergola and then times that by a thousand.

We also saw an unprecedented level of research sharing that fast tracked the development of effective vaccines. Unheard of for that to happen.

 

[bergholt]

People are underestimating (or not aware of) how much time is usually wasted on bureaucratic approval in the usual process of having a treatment/drug approved. A trial can sometimes sit in the IN tray on a pen pusher's desk for months before it is passed on to another pen pusher... imagine how stuffed around you can be waiting for local govt approval to build a bloody pergola and then times that by a thousand.

We also saw an unprecedented level of research sharing that fast tracked the development of effective vaccines. Unheard of for that to happen.

Yeah, though George's point remains true - it's experimental in the long run because no-one's ever done mRNA vaccines before so maybe it causes cancer in 20 years? No way of knowing, except that most scientists who know what they're talking about seem to think it will be fine. Similar to the Manhattan Project - there was a theoretical chance that the heat of the first bomb would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and kill literally everyone. But it was deemed a chance worth taking. Same is probably true here.

 

[jwikked]

Yeah, though George's point remains true - it's experimental in the long run because no-one's ever done mRNA vaccines before so maybe it causes cancer in 20 years? No way of knowing, except that most scientists who know what they're talking about seem to think it will be fine. Similar to the Manhattan Project - there was a theoretical chance that the heat of the first bomb would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and kill literally everyone. But it was deemed a chance worth taking. Same is probably true here.

cancer? That’s nothing compared to the effects of Covid.

 

[bergholt]

cancer? That’s nothing compared to the effects of Covid.

Yeah, that’s the call that they have to make in health policy. No right or wrong answers to that one.

 

[gringo2011]

People are underestimating (or not aware of) how much time is usually wasted on bureaucratic approval in the usual process of having a treatment/drug approved. A trial can sometimes sit in the IN tray on a pen pusher's desk for months before it is passed on to another pen pusher... imagine how stuffed around you can be waiting for local govt approval to build a bloody pergola and then times that by a thousand.

We also saw an unprecedented level of research sharing that fast tracked the development of effective vaccines. Unheard of for that to happen.

Yeah, my cousin says that the fast tracking is more just that processes were accelerated and research was directed all in one direction. He's an immunologist and he has no problem with the process that approved them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

People are underestimating (or not aware of) how much time is usually wasted on bureaucratic approval in the usual process of having a treatment/drug approved. A trial can sometimes sit in the IN tray on a pen pusher's desk for months before it is passed on to another pen pusher... imagine how stuffed around you can be waiting for local govt approval to build a bloody pergola and then times that by a thousand.

We also saw an unprecedented level of research sharing that fast tracked the development of effective vaccines. Unheard of for that to happen.

There is also the risk factor.
Normally you wouldn't consider developing production facilities ahead of trials.

You do things in series. Step 1, then Step 2, then Step 3.
If something goes wrong , it limits your losses.
That doesn't mean you can't do Step's fully or partially in parallel.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yeah, though George's point remains true - it's experimental in the long run because no-one's ever done mRNA vaccines before so maybe it causes cancer in 20 years? No way of knowing, except that most scientists who know what they're talking about seem to think it will be fine. Similar to the Manhattan Project - there was a theoretical chance that the heat of the first bomb would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and kill literally everyone. But it was deemed a chance worth taking. Same is probably true here.

The vaccines being prepped to treat zika virus among others are mrna and have been in development for years though. The COVID ones were the first to be used but others have been tested for a while now.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The vaccines being prepped to treat zika virus among others are mrna and have been in development for years though. The COVID ones were the first to be used but others have been tested for a while now.

Experimental = "lets see if this works "