Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[SkyhorseTamer]

Headgear increases instance of concussion.

More weight on the head causes the brain to bounce around more

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Not at all true. The instances of concussion with an without headgear have been heavily studied recently. Per head knock there is way less concussion with head gear than without. The issues come into it with players subconsciously or on purpose even becoming more reckless when they play with head gear, increasing the number of at risk actions.

 

[Arr0w]

With most, I would assume 'overnight' is a figure of speech... With you, I'm not sure whether you literally mean overnight or not ... However, with the right decisions and the right people, of course the change can happen quickly.. overnight? No.. In a single off-season? Yes ... We won't know until the proof is in the pudding.. Not hard to believe, I wouldn't have thought.

Yet it's not a given either way

The initial transition from Bolton to Teague was seen as a positive move, yet over a greater sample size, not so much. This on the back of many stating that Bolton worked extremely hard to change the mindset of the Malthouse days

Hardwick, everyone was calling for blood end of 2016, 6 years into his tenure

I won't go into the countless other examples of how long it takes

Again, only one commonality to success

Most important person/department at a club is list management/talent ID

I am sure Clarko could attest to this, at this point in time

 

[charred_fate]

Yet it's not a given either way

The initial transition from Bolton to Teague was seen as a positive move, yet over a greater sample size, not so much. This on the back of many stating that Bolton worked extremely hard to change the mindset of the Malthouse days

Hardwick, everyone was calling for blood end of 2016, 6 years into his tenure

I won't go into the countless other examples of how long it takes

Again, only one commonality to success

Most important person/department at a club is list management/talent ID

I am sure Clarko could attest to this, at this point in time

A single person may be able to lead the charge, but it often takes a team to cause the change... hence the changes Richmond made following their review in 2016, which led to immediate success. That was a prime example. Clarkson has proven capable of doing it - Hawks were a rabble when he took over. He gave them a 'my way or the highway' ultimatum and it paid dividends for them... Melbourne, on the other hand, didn't appreciate the attitude..

In my view, we're coming from further back than Tigers of 2016, but that's not to say the culture can't turn as quickly for us. That is also not to say that by getting things sorted in that regard, we should be winning the flag... but we certainly won't be winning the flag until we get things sorted in that regard.

I think you're the one trying to reduce it to wins and losses - it's not that simple.

 

[The Bighouse]

Not at all true. The instances of concussion with an without headgear have been heavily studied recently. Per head knock there is way less concussion with head gear than without. The issues come into it with players subconsciously or on purpose even becoming more reckless when they play with head gear, increasing the number of at risk actions.

It’s a Knockout - that’s the name
It’s a Knockout - that’s the game
It’s a Knockout - that’s the name of the game

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Yep. Clarkson would be a good get but only if surrounded by strong competent people. We *cannot* go into messiah mode again.

Well unfortunately, due to AFL softcap restrictions (cut back even further due to the Covid outbreak), it's hard to see that if he comes, we will be able to provide Clarkson with the strong and capable support panel that you are suggesting, especially given the salary Clarkson will demand.

Hawthorn for example, will still have to pay Clarkson out for next season from their software, which is probably worth 1, if not 2 quality assistants for Mitchell.

I don't like the Softcap rule at all btw, but it is what it is.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Well unfortunately, due to AFL softcap restrictions (cut back even further due to the Covid outbreak), it's hard to see that if he comes, we will be able to provide Clarkson with the strong and capable support panel that you are suggesting, especially given the salary Clarkson will demand.

Hawthorn for example, will still have to pay Clarkson out for next season from their software, which is probably worth 1, if not 2 quality assistants for Mitchell.

I don't like the Softcap rule at all btw, but it is what it is.

Soft cap is virtually meaningless, the penalty is irrelevant and on top of that the soft cap was said to be increasing next season anyway.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Soft cap is virtually meaningless, the penalty is irrelevant and on top of that the soft cap was said to be increasing next season anyway.

Unless you are Carlton and over spend ...

 

[Arr0w]

A single person may be able to lead the charge, but it often takes a team to cause the change... hence the changes Richmond made following their review in 2016, which led to immediate success. That was a prime example. Clarkson has proven capable of doing it - Hawks were a rabble when he took over. He gave them a 'my way or the highway' ultimatum and it paid dividends for them... Melbourne, on the other hand, didn't appreciate the attitude..

In my view, we're coming from further back than Tigers of 2016, but that's not to say the culture can't turn as quickly for us. That is also not to say that by getting things sorted in that regard, we should be winning the flag... but we certainly won't be winning the flag until we get things sorted in that regard.

I think you're the one trying to reduce it to wins and losses - it's not that simple.

You have just strengthened my opinion.

While reviews changed the fortunes of a number of coaches/clubs, rebuilding timelines has +/- remained constant, Cats, Tiger, Lions, Hawks, whether the coach was replaced or not

Using this broader term of culture is lazy/uneducated, rather than drilling down to the number of critical factors

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Soft cap is virtually meaningless, the penalty is irrelevant and on top of that the soft cap was said to be increasing next season anyway.

Teague is contracted for next season is he not ? So if we sack him, that would come out of next year's softcap I assume (least as far as I know)

I think if anything, Clarkson would bring along Chris Newman over who is currently coaching the Box Hill Hawks, and in fairness, I think he would be a terrific choice as our VFL coach. I could live what that if it happens, if not be reasonably happy.

I actually rate Newman quite highly myself and defintley keen on our reserves/VFL team to build a winning culture.

 

[ctwenty1]

Not at all true. The instances of concussion with an without headgear have been heavily studied recently. Per head knock there is way less concussion with head gear than without. The issues come into it with players subconsciously or on purpose even becoming more reckless when they play with head gear, increasing the number of at risk actions.

NFL a good example of that

 

[Blue and Silver]

Not at all true. The instances of concussion with an without headgear have been heavily studied recently. Per head knock there is way less concussion with head gear than without. The issues come into it with players subconsciously or on purpose even becoming more reckless when they play with head gear, increasing the number of at risk actions.

This isn't true in boxing.

Headgear doesn't prevent concussion and likely causes more trauma.

Check out the AIBA if you don't believe me

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Teague is contracted for next season is he not ? So if we sack him, that would come out of next year's softcap I assume (least as far as I know)

I think if anything, Clarkson would bring along Chris Newman over who is currently coaching the Box Hill Hawks, and in fairness, I think he would be a terrific choice as our VFL coach. I could live what that if it happens, if not be reasonably happy.

I actually rate Newman quite highly myself and defintley keen on our reserves/VFL team to build a winning culture.

I think if he's sacked we can pay him out of this years if we wanted to, I think. Not 100%

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

This isn't true in boxing.

Headgear doesn't prevent concussion and likely causes more trauma.

Check out the AIBA if you don't believe me

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I've done that research and what you presented isn't the accepted theory, it's a possible theory discussed along with 2 others but I think from reading the two others are theleading ones are that headgear in boxing makes the head a bigger target and easier to hit, therefore more hits and that boxers aren't so focused on protecting their head once they put it on like they should be.

 

[gab213]

Not at all true. The instances of concussion with an without headgear have been heavily studied recently. Per head knock there is way less concussion with head gear than without. The issues come into it with players subconsciously or on purpose even becoming more reckless when they play with head gear, increasing the number of at risk actions.

Have read many medical experts in this fields opinions that back up exactly what he stated in his post.

 

[Malifice]

The thing with Clarko becoming coach is that it removes the unknown of “is it the players or the coach?” (IMO). Clarko is nowhere near past it - he’s proven that many times this year IMO.

If he comes in and we’re still sh*t = rebuild 3.0

Baby with the bathwater there though, and a really silly thing to say.

I mean we're likely going to have 3 AAs (at least two) this year aged 21, 23 and 23.

In addition to them we have a decent bunch of youth in Curnow, Stocker, Honey, Dekoenig, Cuningham, Fisher the eternally injured Marchbank etc, plus Cripps and Docherty, Saad, Jones etc plus untried but highly rated players in Carroll, Kemp etc who we havent even sighted yet.

Disappointing for me has been Dow, Setterfield, SPS, Obrien and Kennedy and although the latter has shown a bit (as has SPS in patches) they're our underperformers. We only really need 1 or 2 of them to come on and we're looking good.

Main delistings this year are going to be Betts, Murphy, Casboult and Newnes and we arent really losing anything with those guys (with all due respect to their efforts over the years). We'll actually be a younger side next year than this year (assuming Ed gets tapped on the shoulder as well).

We definitely need a skilled dedicated mid or two (and hopefully one of Dow, Setters, SPS, Carroll or Kennedy can step up next year), and another key defender (with Jones getting on, and Marchy nearly done via repeated injuries) and a decent small forward, but we're a million miles away from torch the list and start again like we were 5 years ago.

We just need to target a few gaps in the list. We're losing more than we're winning, but arent getting blown away, have had a pretty big injury list, and clearly a problematic game plan and lack of a team defence.

We're not that far off.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Also on Clarkson (again), I know the AFL have no banned the practice, but does anyone else have an issue with Clarko and his brutal boxing training practices putting one of his young players out for a while with concussion ?.

Maybe not an real problem now that the AFL have banned it, but I still think it's worth discussing in the debate of the pros and cons of hiring Clarko.

Our own Robert Walls has done similar

 

[Matty411]

The great man enters..
View attachment 1200808

Delivers..
View attachment 1200826

The faithfull follow..
View attachment 1200819

He acknowledges his handiwork..
View attachment 1200824

Knows his job here is done for now..
View attachment 1200815

And walks away till next time..
View attachment 1200842

Miss you.

 

[Worm4]

If Clarkson comes, I fear he would want full autonomy over trade and list management decisions. And as we have seen in recent years at Hawthorn (bringing in Wingard, Patton, Scully etc) and most likely would bring Gunston with him, as great as he has been, is well past his prime.

That More than anything makes me nervous about us hiring Clarkson.

Carlton appointed supercoach Denis Pagan , everyone was happy, and the joint turned to schit. Not primarily his fault.
Carlton appointed supercoach Mickey Mouse, people were hi fiving, joint turned into more schit.
Now people are getting exited over a Clarkson appointment. He is coaching a bottom 4 side with a list he has moulded from scratch. I fear that these coach types having already achieved success with other clubs, are now focused on retirement funds from good ole Carlton who are willing to fork out extraordinary amounts of money to appease the members. Its bullschit.
Would much rather a Ross Lyon or Nafan who would be chasing hard for a flag with us, not some flog who is only in it for himself.

 

[Worm4]

Reckon Clarko would see someone like LOB as being his Isaac Smith on the wing.

LoB wont be at the club next year. He is a bust. Would be gross mismanagement if he is offered a contract. He is not even worthy of steak knives.

 

[blue healer]

Totally agree "shop has been shut" out of respect to Teague and the incoming coach.

Trouble is that someone put the lollies on the step before shutting.

 

[myblueroan]

was it asked if he has a book release or tour coming up?

Or a life sized portrait of himself in his loungeroom?

 

[slashin_velvet]

Wouldn’t the Hawks have breached their contract to him? Obviously not privy to details, but if he was asked to leave, then wouldn’t he then be entitled to a full payout?

My understanding:
- Clarkson had a contract to end of 2022
- Hawthorn announced he would not be renewed as head coach after 2022 and announced the succession plan
- Clarkson (and others) werent happy with this proposal
- Both parties mutually agreed to an arrangement which will see Clarkson depart the head coach position in 2021, but still be remunerated for 2022

As such, he'd likely still be under contractual obligations to the Hawks - there would be specific provisions about the things he can and cant do in 2022.....if he wants to still get paid by the hawks. Part time media gigs are probably fine, full time media probably results in a discount from what the Hawks have to pay. Working for another club in any capacity would likely be a negotiation between his management and the club.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Clarkson is very much interested.

I'm late to the party but... for real

 

[gadj1976]

Can think of one reason, club culture.

I think that's been downplayed here. Last time we tried to appoint a coach the media called Carlton the career killer, coach graveyard etc, etc. So why would you try and take it on given that off field we're still a mess? That doesn't look likely to sort itself out any time soon either.

Any coach with a clue would want some surety that they're not working against the board. Something Carlton aren't able to promise and deliver.

Pagan's legacy damaged. Malthouse too. None of our previous coaches bar Ratten have gone on elsewhere. And he was the one that was hardest done by... by the board.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Baby with the bathwater there though, and a really silly thing to say.

I mean we're likely going to have 3 AAs (at least two) this year aged 21, 23 and 23.

In addition to them we have a decent bunch of youth in Curnow, Stocker, Honey, Dekoenig, Cuningham, Fisher the eternally injured Marchbank etc, plus Cripps and Docherty, Saad, Jones etc plus untried but highly rated players in Carroll, Kemp etc who we havent even sighted yet.

Disappointing for me has been Dow, Setterfield, SPS, Obrien and Kennedy and although the latter has shown a bit (as has SPS in patches) they're our underperformers. We only really need 1 or 2 of them to come on and we're looking good.

Main delistings this year are going to be Betts, Murphy, Casboult and Newnes and we arent really losing anything with those guys (with all due respect to their efforts over the years). We'll actually be a younger side next year than this year (assuming Ed gets tapped on the shoulder as well).

We definitely need a skilled dedicated mid or two (and hopefully one of Dow, Setters, SPS, Carroll or Kennedy can step up next year), and another key defender (with Jones getting on, and Marchy nearly done via repeated injuries) and a decent small forward, but we're a million miles away from torch the list and start again like we were 5 years ago.

We just need to target a few gaps in the list. We're losing more than we're winning, but arent getting blown away, have had a pretty big injury list, and clearly a problematic game plan and lack of a team defence.

We're not that far off.

Agree with all this, its very Melbourne 2020. They were incredibly active at the trade table with regard to picks - picked up a gap filler in Brown, dropped some OK but not amazing players, Brought in Adem Yze, Mark Williams, Greg Stafford to their coaching ranks.

That combination of young players clicking combined with gap filling the needs and having the right coaching and structure has taken them from missing finals on % to top of the ladder. No reason that with a solid offseason, we could be in the same position.