He will be the Michael Chang/Anastasia Myskina of the AFL world (aka one slam wonder)
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The thing you're ignoring is: if your club decided to develop a strong intake of youth at that 2015 point and build a quality young team around Dangerfield, Geelong would be much better primed to challenge right now with Dangerfield, Selwood and Hawkins still playing.Yes and at that stage they start again, and look to compete again in 3-4 years. Which if we rebuild now is exactly what we would try and do.
The thing you're ignoring is: if your club decided to develop a strong intake of youth at that 2015 point and build a quality young team around Dangerfield, Geelong would be much better primed to challenge right now with Dangerfield, Selwood and Hawkins still playing.
Instead, you have a best 22 with half of the spots occupied by 30+ year olds (which will include both Guthrie and Menegola next year) and by far the worst contingent of players aged in the 18-27 year old bracket.
It's easy to say "rebuild then, rebuild now, same thing", but when you neglect youth for as long as Geelong have, you're going to end up with a list demographic to Melbourne's in 2008, or Brisbane's in 2010. It's not a pretty sight, and it can take up to a decade to dig your way out of the mire.
Harry Taylor was in that group until he retired last year, and the Cats reshuffled with Blicavs down back but they didn't really properly replace Taylor.They kind of have to until Cameron, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Selwood and Stewart are on their last legs. Personally I think they are in a hole and need a clean out, but hey, they know what they’re doing.
We literally led a grand final, the last game of the season, that decides a oremiership at half time. In what sphere of competitive sport is that not contending.
I don’t want to bore people because we have had this discussion before. But I will simply say if you think Geelong being 15 points ahead against a team with 2 gun half backs crocked in the opening minutes…..at a point that would equate to 8 minutes remaining to half time in a full length match….. then losing 9.7 v 2.3 thereafter….and being totally cooked at what would be the 16 minutes remaining mark in a full length game….is truly contending, then I disagree. Like tonight(key player May injured early,) if the match was played 10 times over the Cats would be lucky to win once.
Winning one of their last 15 finals matches against teams finishing top 4 post finals gives the real answer to whether Geelong have been contending or pretending from 2012 onwards.
The thing you're ignoring is: if your club decided to develop a strong intake of youth at that 2015 point, and build a team around Dangerfield, Geelong would be much better primed to challenge right now with Dangerfield, Selwood and Hawkins still playing.
Instead, you have a best 22 with half of the spots occupied by 30+ year olds (which will include both Guthrie and Menegola next year) and by far the worst contingent of players aged in the 18-27 year old bracket.
It's easy to say "rebuild then, rebuild now, same thing", but when you neglect youth for as long as Geelong have, you're going to end up with a list demographic that resembles Melbourne's in 2008, or Brisbane's in 2010. It's not a pretty sight, and it can take up to a decade to dig your way out of the mire.
Says who?If we made that decision in 2015 we wouldn’t have recruited Dangerfield though would we?
They need to change. I was really bullish on them tonight but my god, Melbourne were phenomenal. It’s the inability to keep up with the flow of the game when playing a younger and fresher side. The time is now to accept that it won’t happen with this group.
Selwood
Dalhaus
Henderson
Higgins
All have to go. They need currency at the trade table. Cam Guthrie and Miers should be considered for trade. I genuinely don’t know what else. Ratugolea? They absolutely need currency at the trade table and they don’t have it.
They’re a very well run club. Off field is solid. They’ll be down for the next 2-3 years and back into it by 2025-2026. A bit like late nineties to 2004. They just have to set themselves up now, rebuild and bounce back. A good rebuild shouldn’t take long. Good club like Geelong will be back up.
Like Selwood a lot but jeez this is bordering on a delusional take after that.
It’s the last game of the season, two teams left standing, I don’t give a toss who is injured, we are leading, and you think that is not being in contention. So basically unless you are the team that wins the grand final you were never in contention.
Whingeing percentage more like itYeah but…but…but ‘winning percentage!’
Says who?
Being plodders for four years didn't stop Brisbane from selling the farm for Dayne Beams. I doubt they regret it either, he was a really good player for them, captained the club, then helped them score Collingwood's two first rounders.
There's no rule that says you can't both recruit Dangerfield and still prioritize youth. Instead Chris Scott decided to keep throwing away first and second rounders for guys like Tuohy, Henderson, Ablett and Stanley.
If you are nowhere near as good as the team who wins the GF, then yes, you are not genuinely in contention. If you were nowhere near as good because you were decimated by injuries or other misfortune, then maybe this wouldn’t point to any weakness in the list management or other strategies, but the Cats cannot say that.
If you are nowhere near as good as the team who wins the GF, then yes, you are not genuinely in contention. If you were nowhere near as good because you were decimated by injuries or other misfortune, then maybe this wouldn’t point to any weakness in the list management or other strategies, but the Cats cannot say that.
Didn't you once used to write essays justifying Hawthorn's list management philosophy? That didn't turn out so well.I'm not a big fan of Scott's coaching, but you don't start a rebuild when you can still make prelims (and last year a GF). Flags are very hard to win, and they are a damn side harder to win from the bottom 8 than the top 4. Also, Geelong has in fact not completely ignored the draft, they did get some decent kids in around the time Dangerfield joined. Obviously it wasn't their main focus, but they probably didn't ignore the draft to the extent Hawthorn did for example. I don't at all agree that it is clear they'd be better placed if they rebuilt earlier
I don't think Carlton or any club care about "making prelims". You build a team to give yourself the best chance of winning flags. It's the end of 2021, and it's pretty obvious in hindsight Geelong picked the wrong option in 2015, even if recruiting Dangerfield was still correct., how many prelims have Carlton played after 3 or more rebuilds?
Again, prelims mean nothing. Most supporters would much rather see their club spend 3 years near the bottom if it meant having a very serious chance of winning a flag later, rather than making 3 successive prelims, but not actually having that good of a chance to win the flag and being left with a horrible list profile.Melbourne have had several goes at it, and before tonight the closest they'd got to a flag during those rebuilding years was a massive prelim flogging.
Didn't you once used to write essays justifying Hawthorn's list management philosophy? That didn't turn out so well.
I don't think Carlton or any club care about "making prelims". You build a team to give yourself the best chance of winning flags. It's the end of 2021, and it's pretty obvious in hindsight Geelong picked the wrong option in 2015, even if recruiting Dangerfield was still correct.
Again, prelims mean nothing. Most supporters would much rather see their club spend 3 years near the bottom if it meant having a very serious chance of winning a flag later, rather than making 3 successive prelims, but not actually having that good of a chance to win the flag and being left with a horrible list profile.
Whether or not those players are busts is not the point.You can debate the merit of whether we should have rebuilt or not endlessly but all those players have played fairly important roles in getting us to the deep parts of the season in the meantime and all four were out there on grand final night last year so I don’t know that those specific deals are the busts they’re being made out to be
Sorry but that’s the stupidest theory I’ve ever heard.
The only year in the last 6 years that qualifies as a "good chance" would be 2020, but that was a season with shortened quarters and everything was out of whack. You were still convincingly beaten by Richmond in the Grand Final, and probably would've lost to us too, just like in the qualifying final.We did have a good chance of winning a flag. We didn’t, that’s how it goes
Didn't you once used to write essays justifying Hawthorn's list management philosophy? That didn't turn out so well.
I don't think Carlton or any club care about "making prelims". You build a team to give yourself the best chance of winning flags. It's the end of 2021, and it's pretty obvious in hindsight Geelong picked the wrong option in 2015, even if recruiting Dangerfield was still correct.
Again, prelims mean nothing.
Most supporters would much rather see their club spend 3 years near the bottom if it meant having a very serious chance of winning a flag later,
rather than making 3 successive prelims, but not actually having that good of a chance to win the flag
They were smashing Melbourne in the final round before an unlikely comeback. Obviously tonight they were nowhere near it, but that's the problem, they are not universally bad against the top teams, just that when it counts they haven't been able to produce. That's why I'd consider a new coach over an immediate full rebuild at this point in their cycle.
They win that every year by far...Whingeing percentage more like it
If you think they were smashing Melbourne in the Rd 23 team, do yourself a favour, go to the AFL site, watch the first half in forensic detail and see if you think Geelong were actually smashing Melbourne….my assessment was with a normal run based on the balance of play, Melbourne would have been not more than about 2 goals down at half time. We saw what happened after that.
They are “universally bad” against top teams in finals. Winning one of their last fifteen finals against top 4 teams has to tell you that, surely?
Didn't you once used to write essays justifying Hawthorn's list management philosophy? That didn't turn out so well.