List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

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George

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Aug 17, 2015
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Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.
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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley


Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

www.bigfooty.com

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)
 
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It's a pretty disappointing end all round. I don't mean this to be a post that overly condemns Dunstan, but I think it is reasonable to paint both sides of this situation. Much of this post is recycled from one I made a couple of months ago, but I think the timing makes it relevant.

This idea that Luke has been starved of opportunities and undervalued by the club is based on very little and takes next to no accountability for a lack of improvement over seven seasons prior to this one.

Before 2020, Luke played 103 games by the age of 24. Pretty much every one of these games was in his preferred position - an inside midfield role. In these 103 games, he got a total of five brownlow votes. He came top ten in the best and fairest on one occasion, in which case he came eighth. He showed very little development between his first year and his sixth year, and was still given close to a permanent midfield role throughout those years. I don't mean that as a criticism of him, but he was given plenty of opportunity.

It is entirely reasonable that the club decided to bring in some midfield recruits a the end of 2019 on the back of a decade's mediocrity and no signs of an improving midfield.

In the lead up to 2020, we recruited Jones so midfield spots were going to be slightly harder to get. Dunstan played round one and whilst he tackled well, he kicked the ball at 30% efficiency. The competition then shut down for months and Dunstan was dropped upon its resumption. Two weeks after being dropped, he got injured and missed about two months of football. By the time he was available, it was the cusp of finals and there was no spots available.

This year we recruited Crouch, again making competition for spots higher. That isn't undervaluing Dunstan, it is simply raising the bar and improving the midfield. Dunstan was given a chance in round five and didn't take it. He then played four VFL games before winning a spot. He wasn't left in the wilderness for eight weeks or a whole season.

To then go and claim that you feel undervalued and want to go to Essendon, is so nonsensical. He'll be behind Parish, Merrett, Stringer, Shiel, McGrath, Langford and probably Caldwell.
 
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Premium said:
Fully expect they have the cash for a good player and will not offer a player overs or a long contract unless he is worth it - like they did with Draper last year , if Ladhams is available I would expect they might open the the purse strings a bit more or a Caldwell type.
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Draper was a few years back now. We offered him money before we knew how good Marshall was.

I could see us offering Ladhams enough money nits just whether we'd also be happy paying Port the draft picks they'd want in return.

Marshall and Ladhams are both very similar types.
 
ScrappyDo said:
That's all true enough. We don't have the luxury of being cautious though. As Lethers said a while back, We are in pursuit of the club's next premiership, and we are proceeding with upmost haste.
Now I'll take that over the previous 8 or 9 years of SFA..
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The problem with us Saints supporters we rate every player more than what they are probably worth and at least now we are showing some ruthlessness which has been needed for years - keep upgrading sooner or later you will get diamonds in the rough like Sharman , Connolly step up.
 
AirWinmar said:
You'd hope our management don't view a 100 game + player of the club like that.

We're backing in our youth of Clark, Bytel and Byrnes to have more midfield time and will add 2 or 3 mids through the draft who can develop at Sandy. That's fair enough. Hopefully we don't get many injuries to the likes of Steele, Crouch, Jones and Gresh and also our yound mids - Clark and Bytel live up to their in midfield potential, which I am very bullish on.

I don't get why we wouldn’t at least offer him a low ball contract, but wish Spook all the best and hope he gets a decent gig at a new club.
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Why not? How did Hawthorn view Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Jordan Lewis when it was their time to be moved on? It's all well and good to want to hold onto any player who's been with us for 8 years but we've achieved zero in those 8 years and he's achieved zero personally.
If anyone is worried about us losing Dunstan watch his game against Richmond earlier this year and your worries will be alleviated!
 
shlong said:
In summary:
Dunstan wants to go to the dons
Would've left even if offered a contract
Rats didn't rate him, it is hard to change opinions

“He didn’t rate me”: Dunstan “disappointed” with way St Kilda treated him

“I think it’s pretty clear that he didn’t rate me.”
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
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He’s bitter. Not a good way to leave the club. It’s a shame.

Surely we haven’t delisted him yet. The article says he has been. That would mean no compensation pick as a departing UFA.
 
Premium said:
He is making out as though it has only happened when Ratten arrived but even Richardson dropped him a couple times and we didn't have any depth at that time.
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Big difference between being dropped from time to and being excluded.

Reflects very badly on the club if a 100 game player is made to feel like this.
 
Former Saint Luke Dunstan had levelled some heavy accusations at St Kilda, hinting that he didn’t feel valued or happy at the club and saying coaches had formed opinions of him that couldn’t be changed.

The 26-year-old has been delisted despite a career-best year in 2021 and expressed his disappointment with the way the Saints handlded his situation.


After being on the outer to begin 2021, Dunstan worked his way into the seniors following strong VFL form to be one of the Saints’ best players in the back half of the season.

That was reflected in Sunday night's Brownlow Medal count, where he polled 11 votes to be a clear second on the club’s leaderboard behind superstar captain Jack Steele.

Dunstan said he felt like he had much more to give, but wasn’t afforded enough opportunities by his former club and his coaches.

“I think I still have a lot to give as a player and I just didn’t get the opportunity that I wanted last year,” he told Sportsday.

“I guess the injury didn’t help, but at times certain coaches get opinions of players and once they get opinions it’s pretty hard to change them.

“If I was to get offered a contract I probably wouldn’t have taken it anyway, I was probably ready to move on with my life.

“I wouldn’t say I didn’t get on with (Brett Ratten, but) I think it’s pretty clear that he didn’t rate me, which is fine, it’s hard to change opinions.

“It’s been pretty tough mentally over the last couple of seasons, having to work so hard to get back into the team and to play some good footy and then get dropped for the last round was pretty disappointing.”

Coming off his best season in the AFL, Dunstan is obviously keen to keep his career going.

When asked what the most important aspect he’d look for in a team, he responded that he wants to be “valued”.

“For me it’s just about being in a happy environment where you feel valued as a player and as a person, and just feel a part of something would be the biggest thing,” he said.

“I’ve had a fair bit of time to think about it over the season, knowing that I was on the outer at the start of this year I was pretty keen to move on and try and get an opportunity elsewhere.

“I’m really keen to try and go somewhere else and get a bit of a new lease on life.

“I’d love to go (to Essendon), my good friend Nick Hind went there last year.”

He played 116 games for the Saints after being drafted with pick 18 in 2013.

The Saints' struggles in the first half of the year cost them a spot in the top eight in 2021, failing to live up to expectations after making the semi finals the previous year.


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bird_man said:
Unlike Ross though, Clark looks a very good contested ball winner.

He also doesn't have a lot pace which to me says he'll be suited more inside.

He's extremely good in traffic. I think we should be trying to turn him into a Pendlebury style inside outside mid.

Happy to see him spend more time on the wing in part of a rotation that see he move more into the middle but I think he'd be wasted played as a genuine wingman.
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here's is Seb's contested possession over his career:
1632133799647.png

now here is Hunter:
1632133724259.png

i don't think you can say Hunter is better at the contested side of his game. they look pretty similar. but Hunter is going to need a big jump if he's going to stay with what Ross did over his career.
 

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TBH i don't think Dunstan is bitter or his words are wrong. I think he's absolutely nailed the situation he was in.

Problem for Luke is i think Ratten has also nailed the assessment of Luke's footballing capability.

I can see this going down like Acres, unless Luke addresses some big weaknesses in his game.
 
Premium said:
He is making out as though it has only happened when Ratten arrived but even Richardson dropped him a couple times and we didn't have any depth at that time.
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Besides injury he basically played 100 games without being dropped and achieved nothing worthy of note except a rising star nom in his first game.
He had plenty of opportunities to cement himself so I’m not sure why he thinks he’s hard done by.
 
For years under Richo we kept saying stop picking players that can't kick
I'm not fussed that he has been moved on
 
Ailurus said:
I remember him saying something similar when he first came back into the team.
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Yeah I remember that. At the time I thought he was talking about the fans opinions!

Ratts didn't rate him... so? Seems like Ratts is correct, but it's not hard to spot a ball butcher.

Just looks like sour grapes from Dunstan and not the way I hoped he would go. Such a shame.

He's had ample opportunities. Maybe if he worked on his major weaknesses over his many years at the club things would be different.
 
StCicatriz said:
here's is Seb's contested possession over his career:
View attachment 1241298

now here is Hunter:
View attachment 1241295

i don't think you can say Hunter is better at the contested side of his game. they look pretty similar. but Hunter is going to need a big jump if he's going to stay with what Ross did over his career.
Click to expand...
You are comparing numbers of a player that has played his whole career on ball. You'd expect them to be a lot more than that.

Clark has played 90% of his footy off a back flank which isn't really a place to get high contested numbers, but when he does go on ball his contested numbers rise.

Had 12 CP's the one game he played as a full time mid this year. Had 12 the game we moved him in the middle against WC late last year.

Was drafted on the back of his time in the middle where he was going at 50% contested.

Ross has never managed to average 10 CP's a game in a season. I have no doubt Clark would be doing that most years once we get him in there.
 
Premium said:
Dunstan being inconsistent , slow and can't kick would be how most would view him, just sour grapes like most players when they are on the outer.
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At the start of the year, absolutely remove Dunstan. Agreed with your above assessment on him at that point in time. Had him pegged as dead wood. Now i can see his worth to the team this year as it coincidently coincided with our consistant second half to the year. From round 11 onwards we stopped throwing in the towel and fought games out. Our weakest area was the midfield where Dunstan came in.

Now here's the part you don't want to accept and that is he was very good to dominant. His ability to stand up to other mids and not be pushed around helped out Steele and the other mids tremendously. Clearance and tackle work on par with Steele while racking up disposals.

My views are not landlocked and can be swayed when a player earns that right. Hill who i have hated on since his arrival started playing a role in the second half of his second season with us and become a solid contributor. Not worth 800k, never was or will be but he's a lock for a starting 22.

You say sour grapes, i say your views only weaken the club. I am not for throwing out best 22 players.
 
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