Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Yeah the thing that gets me is we’ve been chasing Martin ever since Bev has been here but supposedly no one else? It’s strange, I think you’re right in that we wayyy overrate what we need out of a ruck. He wouldn’t be my first choice for a ruck but I’m shocked we’re not into Ladhams. As a slightly more first ruck version of Timmy together you’d think they’d be ideal for Bevs wants but look maybe we worry about his off field attitude and that’s fine, it’s just frustrating not knowing whilst we’re so quiet on this front
We definitely chased Lobbe too (famously missing out as he was in Vietnam when we wanted to organise a medical).

And for the people saying 'get the best state leaguer' - guess who the VFL ruck was in the team of the year?
 
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I'm happy with our ruck recruiting. Sweet will be the number 1 ruck and not left to rot in the twos. Martin is the back up ruck who plays in the two's mainly, English is the forward/relief ruck. And let's just hope they don't get injured.
Sweet is going to have to take a massive leap to ruck number 1 all year.
 
Do people really believe that pulling a ruckman out of a state league is going to alleviate let alone be the panacea for our ruck wants?

We only need look at how far Jordan Sweet was from being able to take on the mantle to see how much of a logical fallacy this is.

I can understand the rationale put about regarding the likes of Ceglar, Fort or any of the other untried ruckman being suggested here. What I dont understand is the argument to take a look at state leaguers if we aren't interested in the likes of Ceglar and Fort in the next 24 hours or so.
 
Probably right but his season was derailed badly by injury. It’s possible that if he has a good run and the odd planned break he can put in a good year, as long as this season wasn’t a sign his body is shot.
I think the concern is this year it was a number of different injuries that kept him out, rather than dealing with just one.
 
I understand that rationale put about regarding the like of Ceglar, Fort or any of the other untried ruckman being put about here. What I dont understand is the argument to take a look at state leaguers if we aren't interested in the likes of Ceglar and Fort in the next 24 hours or so.
Absolutely. Especially when the mid-season draft has already taken out the top 7 over 18 prospects this year as well.
 
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Yeah the thing that gets me is we’ve been chasing Martin ever since Bev has been here but supposedly no one else? It’s strange, I think you’re right in that we wayyy overrate what we need out of a ruck. He wouldn’t be my first choice for a ruck but I’m shocked we’re not into Ladhams. As a slightly more first ruck version of Timmy together you’d think they’d be ideal for Bevs wants but look maybe we worry about his off field attitude and that’s fine, it’s just frustrating not knowing whilst we’re so quiet on this front
Rightly or wrongly, I think the answer is probably that we think English is going to be an outstanding ruck and are trying to juggle being competitive with not disrupting his development or putting too many salary cap eggs in one basket - hence why we're only in the mix for old guys who are a clear and immediate upgrade.

I still hold out some hope for this universe but not nearly as much hope as I once had. I worry that if English leaves or doesn't get there as a player the consequences of this risk could be dire.
 

doggy_dog

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Watch how dominate we were the first 6 weeks he broke down when we didn't replace English against Richmond
Probably right but his season was derailed badly by injury. It’s possible that if he has a good run and the odd planned break he can put in a good year, as long as this season wasn’t a sign his body is shot.
Yep that’s all well and good. Wouldn’t you like someone else on the list who is able to play the role when/if Stef gets injured?

Ceglar would literally cost the bare minimum. And even he doesn’t play a game because Sweet goes past him, that’s a massive win for us as well. At absolute worst he’s a very cheap insurance policy
 

Foxman98

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Yep that’s all well and good. Wouldn’t you like someone else on the list who is able to play the role when/if Stef gets injured?

Ceglar would literally cost the bare minimum. And even he doesn’t play a game because Sweet goes past him, that’s a massive win for us as well. At absolute worst he’s a very cheap insurance policy
Ceglar will cost a 2nd round pick he's not worth it and will not improve us enough to justify it
 
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After the mid season draft, there wouldn't be many/any left.
Knoll if he passes a medical this time around? Was tied to Gold Coast but he failed a medical with them just prior to the draft so they passed.
This option interests me, huge unit, US basketball background so obviously athletic, great stats in the SANFL especially hit out and clearance numbers.

Reading up on it he supposedly had a dodgy PCL so of course GC passed considering they were looking for an in season instant replacement but as an off season pick up it’s probably not as big a problem, if he went in for surgery now he’s still back for early next year.
 
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When are the two players from our GF team going to announce their intention to leave?
Mate he said seriously considering their options FFS. It’s been repeated from a couple of different sources now so obviously there was talk there - he never once said it was done. Why do we have a crack at people who have a strong history of good information just because it’s not what we want to hear, we want this information posted
 
Rightly or wrongly, I think the answer is probably that we think English is going to be an outstanding ruck and are trying to juggle being competitive with not disrupting his development or putting too many salary cap eggs in one basket - hence why we're only in the mix for old guys who are a clear and immediate upgrade.

I still hold out some hope for this universe but not nearly as much hope as I once had. I worry that if English leaves or doesn't get there as a player the consequences of this risk could be dire.
I think this and the fact that we just don't have the draft capital to satisfy another clubs demands for a ruck who will immediately improve our list sums up the debate in a nutshell.

I also think that Ceglar was dangled by the hawks with us specifically in mind in the hope that we bite big. We have thus far chosen not too.
 
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He's got the build and the aggression if he works on his tank he will be fine
I agree he has some tools but the tank needs serious work. It doesn’t appear to have improved that much and he struggled to run out a shortened vfl season. The jump is still big to get to where he needs to be.
 

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Do people really believe that pulling a ruckman out of a state league is going to alleviate let alone be the panacea for our ruck wants?

We only need look at how far Jordan Sweet was from being able to take on the mantle to see how much of a logical fallacy this is.

I can understand the rationale put about regarding the likes of Ceglar, Fort or any of the other untried ruckman being suggested here. What I dont understand is the argument to take a look at state leaguers if we aren't interested in the likes of Ceglar and Fort in the next 24 hours or so.
For me, it's about having depth and coverage in case of injuries, especially given the next couple seasons are years we should be challenging for a flag.

Do we have someone who can step up and compete to a somewhat adequate level if needed? Or could our season be derailed if we're forced to use a Lewis Young type in a pivotal match? I'd argue we didn't have sufficient depth (that we were willing to play) this year. English rucked solo, our performances dropped, Young was brought in to let English stay forward and maintain our preferred forward structures.

Next year we don't even have Lewis Young as our break glass in emergency option. Even if we play Sweet, getting in another guy who is 200cm+ and has an AFL-ready body IMO seems like prudent risk management given we are in the running for a flag.
 

hard at it

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Ideal world how many rucks would you have in your list
Personally I probably wouldn’t want more than three so counting Tim as purely a ruckman we are done
Counting Tim as a forward who can ruck then I reckon we can add another of the same profile which is probably Cox provided he was cheap
Reckon overall we get more value from a player of that profile than Cav or Hayes for example
 

footscray1973

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Sorry, I don't agree with this premise that we have 3 rucks on our list (as multiple posts on recent pages have alluded to, not arguing with anyone in particular).

Martin will be 35 in November, and I can't see him playing more than the 8 games he played in 2020 or the 9 this year in 2022.
English may become a #1 ruck, but I'm far from convinced, I still see his role as a forward/ruck.
Sweet has the makings of a #1 ruck, but as a minimum needs to extend his tank significantly.

From where I sit, at this stage not one of them will be our #1 ruck for the majority of next season (happy to be proven wrong by English or Sweet,
confident on my read of Martin).

I'm not enamoured with the Ceglar option, but I can see the merit if it is used to tide us over for a season or two. If Sweet shows he is ready for longer stints, give him first shot, with Ceglar (or someone) as backup, like Sweet was this year for Martin. English plays forward/ruck, and Martin is ruck coach, and there for a break glass in case of emergency. By the end of 2022, we'd be back to 3 rucks anyway, as Martin would be off the main list.

And I'm not professing to say Darcy will not be a ruckman, but given he has played almost exclusively KP in under age, unlike Luke who was an under-age ruck, the expectation that he would provide ruck backup in the next year or two with even less under age exposure to ruck than English is, let's say, a long shot.
 
This guy has just won the Fothergill-Round-Mitchell Medal for Best Young Player in the VFL. He's 19, 195cm, plays CHB and is a marking interceptor. Better still, he's a Williamstown player so right in our back yard. Meet Charlie Dean.
 
Jun 19, 2016
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Ideal world how many rucks would you have in your list
Personally I probably wouldn’t want more than three so counting Tim as purely a ruckman we are done
Counting Tim as a forward who can ruck then I reckon we can add another of the same profile which is probably Cox provided he was cheap
Reckon overall we get more value from a player of that profile than Cav or Hayes for example
3 is fine but not when one is 35 and struggled with injuries for 2 years.
 
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