List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[RJKTiger]

People going on about the pick swap deal, these are the type of players taken between pick 26 to 32 over the past decade

Pick 26-32 - Elliot Yeo, Daniel McStay, Tim Obrien, Zach Merrett, Rory Lobb, Toby McLean, Tourk Miller, Josh Dunkley, Shai Bolton, Parfitt, Balta, L.Ryan, De Koening, Bailey Fritsch, Brad Hill, Joel Hamling,

If you stretch then the type of players found between

pick 38-52....
Jacob Kozitche, Tom Worple, Sean Darcy, Tom Stewart, Jack Graham, Willie Rioli, Bailey Dale, Mitch McGovern, Caleb Daniel, Tom Barrass, Allir Allir, Jake Kolojaknni, Tim Membrey,


From this group i have BOLDED the top 15 (in my opinion)

Essentially even with turning 3 bites at the cherry into 1, we are still twice as likely to find an elite talent at 27 than 38-52

The other obvious benefit here is that we are now much more equipped to possibly trade up in the first & 2nd rounds if a player we have the hots for starts to slip. I am ok with the deal, I think crying about a future 3rd being included in the deal is akin to crying over spilt milk. Statistically over the decade - the results speak for themselves. Even if we do not trade up, we now have the envious position of 3 picks in a row. If we feel that there are only 2 players left we think are worth a pick in the 20's - we may be able to trade the pick 27 for another teams future 2nd + and additional 3rd in the current draft, if they want it enough.

I think its hard to argue that the deal doesn't make us better equipped to trade up + find an elite talent - or even invest back into 2022 draft if we feel that is the right call. It seems a clear win for me, even if "3 for 1" is hard for some peeps to fathom.

I love it when you actually take 20 minutes of your time up to go gather all the stats of the past decade of something people are just arguing about - show them the history of A Vs B - in a completely impartial way - and someone STILL gives you a lil thumbs done thingy.

You can disagree with opinions, but you cant disagree with the facts. This isn't a convo on vaccines fella's - facts are just facts!

 

[THE THIN MAN]

You'll never convince some people on here. It's the equivalent if they had a hot girlfriend they'd excuse her cheating on them with their best mate or stealing from their wallet straight after sex. How dare anyone criticise the club in any way shape or form!!!! The only good thing about some of the views on here about negotiating skills is I'll be selling 2 townhouses next year and fools and their hard earned are easily parted.

 

[shaky]

Because picks you aren't going to use have no value to you.
If we're planning to use 5 picks this year for example, pick 40 is worth 0 points to us. So the total value of the picks TO US is in the range of 685-948 depending on where we finish next year. Much closer to equal value and when you consider points are a guide only and don't take into account players in the draft and where they are likely to be taken, its perfectly reasonable.

I still don’t get it as we have effectively given away our points next year which we potentially could have used to upgrade another pick or traded in for another future pick we may have needed.
If we were going to lose the pick because we didn’t have the list spots I would understand, but we still have pick 83.
What has more value to us, this years pick 83 or a third round pick next year?

 

[Tortured Tiger]

Just had a quick look at the 26 and under thread on the MB. We reckon we've got issues. Damn some teams don't have a KP under 27. Geelong doesn't even have 22 under 27 players (before draft).

It's always good to get some context. We are in a solid spot given that we've been on top for so long.

But some teams look like they have major issues coming up with holes in their lists.


And Melbourne had 5 guy over 26 in their premiership team - very good players. But their squad is fairly youngish.

Good post. The draft and salary cap is designed so that clubs who have had sustained success will run into list problems eventually so we have done pretty well to have the depth we have got. Obviously nailing the next two or three drafts will be critical as to how well we plug those holes with hopefully a good trade or free agent thrown in for good measure when the salary cap loosens a bit for us.

 

[tiger_tough]

38 or PSD wasn't it Norf fans?

Roos boss unpacks complex trade for Tiger, flags plans for list hole

‘Doesn’t work that way’: Roos boss explains how club could’ve botched huge trade coup

www.foxsports.com.au

North Melbourne football boss Brady Rawlings

Brady Rawlings

Age

42

Ht

184cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

8.7

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.8

3star

says Callum Coleman-Jones

21

Callum Coleman-jones

Age

24

Ht

200cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.0

1star

wouldn’t have come to the club if it elected to force him through the pre-season draft

“It sounds quite simple as you can walk someone to a pre-season draft - it doesn’t quite work that way,” he said.

 

[Tortured Tiger]

38 or PSD wasn't it Norf fans?

Roos boss unpacks complex trade for Tiger, flags plans for list hole

‘Doesn’t work that way’: Roos boss explains how club could’ve botched huge trade coup

www.foxsports.com.au

North Melbourne football boss Brady Rawlings says Callum Coleman-Jones wouldn’t have come to the club if it elected to force him through the pre-season draft

“It sounds quite simple as you can walk someone to a pre-season draft - it doesn’t quite work that way,” he said.

Interesting comment, it sounds like North have a bit more class than the Crows and Blues then who obviously didn't care about any fallout when they did that in the last couple of years.

 

[bananatigz]

Interesting comment, it sounds like North have a bit more class than the Crows and Blues then who obviously didn't care about any fallout when they did that in the last couple of years.

To be fair to CCJ, sounds like he made it quite clear that he wasn't willing to go down that path either. Good on him if so.

 

[Muddiemoose]

To be fair to CCJ, sounds like he made it quite clear that he wasn't willing to go down that path either. Good on him if so.

It was reported pretty early on that he wanted to make sure Richmond were fairly compensated in the trade

A lot of the s**t canning over the bloke over his decisions were completely over the top and unwarranted

 

[Tygrys]

It was reported pretty early on that he wanted to make sure Richmond were fairly compensated in the trade

A lot of the sh*t canning over the bloke over his decisions were completely over the top and unwarranted

Yep as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't be booed when Richmond plays North next year beyond him simply being a North Melbourne player. It sounds as if he acted honourably, as did North Melbourne. And I say this as someone that wrote some nasty things about North Melbourne at the time (although not about CCJ). True some of their fans were needlessly provocative, so no sympathy for them, but yeah I'll put my hand up and say as a club they didn't deserve it.

 

[Pomsta]

I don’t think West Coast value Brander’s work in defence by the looks of it. So I don’t think they’d replace him with Hurn.

In the forward line though, they still have Oscar Allen, Waterman, and Darling ahead of him for a while. For next year, Josh Kennedy is also included. If West Coast is looking to play less talls in the future (maybe they’re looking at 2 talls), then Brander just doesn’t have a place in their A side for years. No point in keeping him on if the position he plays best in is occupied by 3 others ahead of him.

I don’t mind if people disagree with my view on it, but I think the circumstances surrounding his delisting means that he may not actually be a bad pick-up for whoever has (or will have) a spot free to play him as a second or third tall forward. For us, we will have a spot free after Riewoldt retires, so I wouldn’t mind it because it means we can properly develop KPFs we pick up in the draft through our VFL program and play them when they are ready.

Well we'll find out during the draft how they rated Brander if they pick a KPP early.

 

[Bojangles17]

I love it when you actually take 20 minutes of your time up to go gather all the stats of the past decade of something people are just arguing about - show them the history of A Vs B - in a completely impartial way - and someone STILL gives you a lil thumbs done thingy.

You can disagree with opinions, but you cant disagree with the facts. This isn't a convo on vaccines fella's - facts are just facts!

Good research 99 , it’s undeniable the closer you get to pick 40 the prospects of that player playing 100 games diminish

 

[Bojangles17]

Interesting comment, it sounds like North have a bit more class than the Crows and Blues then who obviously didn't care about any fallout when they did that in the last couple of years.

Good on them, they’re students of history, no successful clubs act with a scorched earth policy

 

[bd3_]

You reckon we pick up any of the delisted free agents? Constable, brander etc

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

38 or PSD wasn't it Norf fans?

Roos boss unpacks complex trade for Tiger, flags plans for list hole

‘Doesn’t work that way’: Roos boss explains how club could’ve botched huge trade coup

www.foxsports.com.au

North Melbourne football boss Brady Rawlings says Callum Coleman-Jones wouldn’t have come to the club if it elected to force him through the pre-season draft

“It sounds quite simple as you can walk someone to a pre-season draft - it doesn’t quite work that way,” he said.

When a supporter says we hold leverage and we can just take him in the PSD - I have found that village idiot that knows SFA about football / trading and list management.

I spoke to an ex player a few years ago and the discussion went to players leaving clubs via PSD and he said thats not a great example to set for the club
if you are not concerned about getting a player via PSD that just indicates to your players that if they wanted to leave that is an acceptable option

 

[tiger_tough]

You reckon we pick up any of the delisted free agents? Constable, brander etc

No. Although I've been assured on the drafts broad that Blake Schlensong can be selected as a DFA in the upcoming DFA window so maybe him? Reckon he'll go back to Geelong though.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

To be fair to CCJ, sounds like he made it quite clear that he wasn't willing to go down that path either. Good on him if so.

Im not buying too much into that spin , How else was rawlings going to justify the rogering blair gave him

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

You reckon we pick up any of the delisted free agents? Constable, brander etc

Only if Dusty decides to retire.

 

[acr2751]

Yep as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't be booed when Richmond plays North next year beyond him simply being a North Melbourne player. It sounds as if he acted honourably, as did North Melbourne. And I say this as someone that wrote some nasty things about North Melbourne at the time (although not about CCJ). True some of their fans were needlessly provocative, so no sympathy for them, but yeah I'll put my hand up and say as a club they didn't deserve it.

good luck with that

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

It was reported pretty early on that he wanted to make sure Richmond were fairly compensated in the trade

A lot of the sh*t canning over the bloke over his decisions were completely over the top and unwarranted

No it is 100% warranted
We invested pick #20 and gave him 4 years and developed him slowly protecting him from the VFL hack Ruckman , He won a VFL premiership and would have had a AFL premiership if he didnt stuff up. Cost the club $100k sof cap and games whilst suspended. When available he got games

He will never be 1st ruck at Norf or at Richmond and will always be Fwd / Ruck and with Jack finishing soon he should have waited 2 more years. he is only 22 and there re not many Fwd/Rucks that are 1st ruck's in their team

He owed us 2 more year

 

[DontArgue4]

Only if Dusty decides to retire.

Where you been?

Hes already retired

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Where you been?

Hes already retired

Been parked out Arden st waiting for his arrival.

 

[Bojangles17]

To be fair to CCJ, sounds like he made it quite clear that he wasn't willing to go down that path either. Good on him if so.

Fairly apparent that was the case , well done to him, clearly weighed on him the support the RFC provided after the 10w wack from afl

 

[Bojangles17]

You reckon we pick up any of the delisted free agents? Constable, brander etc

Unless we were to significantly consolidate our picks , no I don’t think we do

 

[SunshineBoy]

But you’re not providing any solutions. Of course I’d love a half decent quality forward in the VFL ready to step in if injuries hit … but guess what, they don’t exist! Casboult has been that ‘back-up’ key forward to McKay, McGovern and Curnow for 4-years …. and with Curnow and McGovern out he STILL was playing VFL … for the putrid Blues who haven’t made finals for 8-years. But you think he’d be a handy back-up for us…?? Mason Cox is one of the Pies only key forwards with any size …. Yet he was so bad they chose to move Moore up forward. These are the sort of back-ups you are advocating we pick-up - blokes who can’t even get a game in bottom teams who desperately need key forwards.

Not a single piece of evidence I’ve seen can convince me a player who is willing to accept playing in the VFL is worth us picking up. Ceglar is going to be Geelong’s number 1 ruck. Stef Martin was the Dogs number 1 ruck. There’s no-one of half decent quality going to come to Richmond to play as a 3rd string ruck…. why do you think both Chol and CJ have left ….?!?!

If we could have got Ceglar to come as a 3rd stringer and pay him $200k then great, I’m all for it. Was never going to happen. Even Xerri wanted out of North because he was 3rd string behind a 33yo Goldy and an 8-gamer. Lynch left the Pies as he was behind Grundy and Cameron. Fort left Geelong as he was behind Ceglar and Stanley and only had McInerney in front of him at Brisbane …. you catching on to any form of pattern here..??

The Saints had a couple of these patch job senior back-up rucks in the last 24-months in Hunter and McKernan …. both pickups absolutely laughable when they played.

So it’s well and good to say we should have replacements ready for ruck/fwd if we get injuries … we did, and they both left for more senior opportunities. Why do you think there are more like them ready to fall out of the trees to come to Richmond, where with Soldo returning there’ll be Even LESS opportunity than there was in 2021..???

So like you I do like the theory … but the reality of what’s realistically available who is decent enough that we’d want on our list (ie NOT casboult) and who’d be willing to play VFL at Richmond is pretty thin on the ground.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

the only thing Levi is known for is being handcuffed by Chris judd on a big night out

 

[THE THIN MAN]

the only thing Levi is known for is being handcuffed by Chris judd on a big night out

The father of Carlton rookie Levi Casboult had to pick up his drunken son after a boozy boat cruise with fellow players on Saturday night.

Leigh Casboult said he received a call from another Carlton player telling him he needed to pick up his 19-year-old son.

He arrived to find his son inebriated after the Yarra River cruise, an end-of-season celebration believed to have been organised by the players and not the club.

"To be honest, Levi has some hazy memories of the cruise, I guess what I'm prepared to tell you is that he went on a cruise with the Carlton football players which he was very chuffed about being invited to ... in the course of the cruise he consumed far too much alcohol and one of his football buddies gave us a call and said 'probably a good idea if you come and pick him up'," he told Radio 3AW.

Mr Casboult said his son was not usually a drinker as he was focused on his health and football career.

He said he could not comment on reports that Levi had been bound or handcuffed to another player and pressured into participating in drinking games by senior players.

Mr Casboult said he had faith that Carlton would deal appropriately with the fallout from the cruise.

"I don't like the thought of my kids going out drinking that much alcohol, I think it's dangerous in any situation," he said.

Carlton officials yesterday declared that the aftermath of the alcohol-fuelled Christmas celebration would have "serious consequences" when training resumes next month, after it was revealed that Eddie Betts was arrested in the CBD for drunken behaviour.

After spending another day apologising to sponsors for the behaviour of certain players yesterday, the club confirmed that Betts was arrested in Queen Street just before 4am on Sunday, fined $234 and locked up for a "short period" for drunkenness following a boozy boat cruise on Port Phillip Bay to mark the end of pre-Christmas training.

News of his arrest, which he notified the club about on Sunday, came after Carlton fined Ryan Houlihan and Andrew Walker $5000 - the maximum under the AFL players' code of conduct - for a post-cruise confrontation they had with staff at Crown Casino, which police also attended.

The scuffle followed an argument between Houlihan - who was wearing only his underpants in the Crown Promenade foyer at the time of the altercation - and his girlfriend, with whom he had booked a room at the hotel.

Walker and Houlihan have been banned from the casino as a result of the incident.

Carlton took the drastic move of trading star forward Brendan Fevola at the end of last season following his drunken antics at the Brownlow Medal count at Crown in September.

The president, the board, the chief executive and coach were yesterday furious about the latest indiscretions and have declared there will be "serious consequences" for all concerned when training resumes on January 4.

"This is the second incident that has been brought to the club's attention as a direct result of the players' unofficial end-of-year celebrations on Saturday," Carlton chief executive Greg Swann said in a statement.

"We understand a number of players drank excessively during a cruise in the afternoon.

"This is clearly the most disappointing manner to end the year as the club has embarked on a number of initiatives and programs with the playing group outlining the negative effects of binge drinking in the community.

"This issue will be re-addressed by the club with the players and the AFLPA when all players return to commence pre-season training [next month].

"It is unfortunate that the actions of a few players have had such a negative impact on the Carlton Football Club and all associated with the club."

Swann added that police had dealt with Betts as they would with any member of the community and while the forward was "officially on leave he still has a responsibility, like all players, to maintain the standards that are required of all Carlton players".

"On this occasion he has not done so," he said. "As a result he will be disciplined and fined the maximum penalty [$5000] on his return from leave in January."

Betts, who is understood to be distressed about the incident, was suspended for a game in August - along with former Carlton player Cameron Cloke and young forward Jeff Garlett - for arriving late to a recovery session.

Swann added that allegations that another player, 10-gamer Mitch Robinson, was involved in an altercation in Tasmania over the weekend have been "vehemently denied" by Robinson, who was with his family in Tasmania for Christmas.

Mr Casboult said the drunken night out had been a "learning curve" for his son.

'Hazy memories': Carlton rookie's booze-cruise bender

The father of Carlton rookie Levi Casboult had to pick up his drunken son after a boozy boat cruise with fellow players on Saturday night.

www.theage.com.au