Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Bigger]

It's not going to wreak havoc. From memory, the WA governments own modelling is at 90% vaccination there will be 100-200 deaths. Mainly iin unvaccinated people with severe existing diseases. But even most of them will survive.
100-200 is sad, but not havoc

I don't think you understand how rooted our health system is.

If you're only counting the deaths from Covid, then, yair, let the *er rip - who cares about 200 of the unvaccinated or the elderly or the weak - but you're ignoring all the other people whose surgery is being delayed or whose care is compromised as Covid patients monopolise our already woefully inadequate ICU resources.

I'd wager you are one or all of the following: (1) healthy (2) without unhealthy or otherwise compromised relatives or loved ones (3) not a frontline healthcare worker or related to one. Even if you aren't, you need to conisder the following :

Up to April 2020, there were 2988 people in NSW who had Covid. Of them, 372 required hospitalisation. 12.4% required hospitalisation. 124 needed ICU care. So 4% needing ICU care.

If there are now 2000 confirmed cases in Sydney a day, let's say we're looking at getting between 500 and a thousand. A day. If it's 750 and only 2% of them require ICU care, that's, what, 130-ish people a week.

How many ICU beds do you reckon we have here in sunny Perth where the sun always shines?

And, by "beds" I mean sufficent shifts of suitably trained staff, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for however many ******* months it takes for you cats to no longer be bored of not being able to travel - to all the other places where new variants of Covid are kicking the s**t out of things.

Sure, I understand that these April 2020 figures are pre-vaccination, but the numbers aren't good. They especially aren't good when our public health system can't cope right now, when there is no pandemic.

I get that we need to open the doors at some point and, given the frighteningly large number of absolute dickheads we have around here, 90% vaccination has to be good enough, but, man, I hope we are prepared for it to be a fair bit shittier than a couple of hundred annoying boomers dying.

 

[Taylor]

but you're ignoring all the other people whose surgery is being delayed

Important to note that this is already happening before we get this covid rush.

We are in for a world of hurt because once the door opens we will have everyone with a sniffle showing up at ER thinking they are going to die.

 

[Square Peg]

I don't think you understand how rooted our health system is.

If you're only counting the deaths from Covid, then, yair, let the f***er rip - who cares about 200 of the unvaccinated or the elderly or the weak - but you're ignoring all the other people whose surgery is being delayed or whose care is compromised as Covid patients monopolise our already woefully inadequate ICU resources.

I'd wager you are one or all of the following: (1) healthy (2) without unhealthy or otherwise compromised relatives or loved ones (3) not a frontline healthcare worker or related to one. Even if you aren't, you need to conisder the following :

Up to April 2020, there were 2988 people in NSW who had Covid. Of them, 372 required hospitalisation. 12.4% required hospitalisation. 124 needed ICU care. So 4% needing ICU care.

If there are now 2000 confirmed cases in Sydney a day, let's say we're looking at getting between 500 and a thousand. A day. If it's 750 and only 2% of them require ICU care, that's, what, 130-ish people a week.

How many ICU beds do you reckon we have here in sunny Perth where the sun always shines?

And, by "beds" I mean sufficent shifts of suitably trained staff, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for however many ******* months it takes for you cats to no longer be bored of not being able to travel - to all the other places where new variants of Covid are kicking the sh*t out of things.

Sure, I understand that these April 2020 figures are pre-vaccination, but the numbers aren't good. They especially aren't good when our public health system can't cope right now, when there is no pandemic.

I get that we need to open the doors at some point and, given the frighteningly large number of absolute dickheads we have around here, 90% vaccination has to be good enough, but, man, I hope we are prepared for it to be a fair bit shittier than a couple of hundred annoying boomers dying.

I'm two of your three, so you are right there.
Our health system is not ****ed. We have one of the greatest, if not the greatest, health systems in the world. Your catastrophising is representative of how utterly skewed the view of the average punter in WA is. On a global level, there is hardly a better system.
The WA government produced the modelling, they've not been known for their recklessness to date.

 

[oldgoat]

Important to note that this is already happening before we get this covid rush.

We are in for a world of hurt because once the door opens we will have everyone with a sniffle showing up at ER thinking they are going to die.

And everyone who tests +ve and is low risk will need to be "managed" in the community.
Translation ...gp appointments to monitor and medically clear to leave isolation.
Add gp services to ER and elective surgery , all not coping prior to pandemic.

 

[Bigger]

I'm two of your three, so you are right there.
Our health system is not f’ed. We have one of the greatest, if not the greatest, health systems in the world. Your catastrophising is representative of how utterly skewed the view of the average punter in WA is. On a global level, there is hardly a better system.
The WA government produced the modelling, they've not been known for their recklessness to date.

As a recent beneficiary of our health system, I agree with your assessment in principle. You don't need to tell me how fantastic it is that you can chuck a big hearty, like I did recently, and wander into ED, be immediately looked after and literally be given an extension of life. If that had happened in the glorious US of A, I would be destitute. I saw recently the bill some yank dude who had been bitten by a rattlesnake received for the healthcare he required - 152K all up, 90K of which was for pharmaceuticals. I get a stent put in my ******* heart and I pay nothing.

We are BLESSED, I tells ya. Absolutely the luckiest people on God's green earth.

But you are blind if you don't think the actual nuts and bolts of our public ED and ICU facilities are under incredible strain. Now, as we speak.

The WA government did their modelling pre Omicron outbreak. I acknowledge I am going high with my numbers, and I acknowledge that post-vaccination the effects of the virus may be lessened, but you need to acknowledge that we don't really have that many ICU beds in WA. And we have *-all in the bush.

I am not saying we need to remain locked off forever. I am just saying we need to be prepared, that we need to understand that this will not be just a couple of hundred people dying, no sweat off my balls.

 

[Square Peg]

As a recent beneficiary of our health system, I agree with your assessment in principle. You don't need to tell me how fantastic it is that you can chuck a big hearty, like I did recently, and wander into ED, be immediately looked after and literally be given an extension of life. If that had happened in the glorious US of A, I would be destitute. I saw recently the bill some yank dude who had been bitten by a rattlesnake received for the healthcare he required - 152K all up, 90K of which was for pharmaceuticals. I get a stent put in my ******* heart and I pay nothing.

We are BLESSED, I tells ya. Absolutely the luckiest people on God's green earth.

But you are blind if you don't think the actual nuts and bolts of our public ED and ICU facilities are under incredible strain. Now, as we speak.

The WA government did their modelling pre Omicron outbreak. I acknowledge I am going high with my numbers, and I acknowledge that post-vaccination the effects of the virus may be lessened, but you need to acknowledge that we don't really have that many ICU beds in WA. And we have fu**-all in the bush.

I am not saying we need to remain locked off forever. I am just saying we need to be prepared, that we need to understand that this will not be just a couple of hundred people dying, no sweat off my balls.

I think the system is under strain and always will be. But big heartys like yours will still get treated, thank goodness. We need to maintain perspective. I don't know how many deaths there will be directly due to covid. I do know most deaths will occur in people that already have life limiting illness. We can go back 100s of pages into this thread and find long discussions about how health funding decisions are made, based on cost per QALY saved. It's not a discussion people like to hear, because they prefer the fantasy of life being priceless and rationing of health care never happening. But it happened before any of us had ever heard of covid, and it will happen long after covid is just a cold. In fact although we do rationing better than most in Aus, the general trend with population aging is not a positive one. I wish it weren't so, but I prefer to deal in reality.

 

[Wilksyy]

All I'll say is, I have no idea who I'm going to vote for next year, none of the parties so far have done anything worth securing a vote. Liberals are garbage, Labor are slightly less garbage, but still garbage nonetheless, I won't be seen dead voting Greens or Nationals either.

I feel I've just become so disillusioned by the political landscape that I just don't give a sh*t anymore, I know I should, I just find it hard to when every party is full of scum.

Im the same but when both parties are s**t pick the one that’s less s**t. That’s politics

 

[Spitty_the_alpaca]

 

[Purple_Turtle]

 

[gungho]

I don't think you understand how rooted our health system is.

If you're only counting the deaths from Covid, then, yair, let the f***er rip - who cares about 200 of the unvaccinated or the elderly or the weak - but you're ignoring all the other people whose surgery is being delayed or whose care is compromised as Covid patients monopolise our already woefully inadequate ICU resources.

I'd wager you are one or all of the following: (1) healthy (2) without unhealthy or otherwise compromised relatives or loved ones (3) not a frontline healthcare worker or related to one. Even if you aren't, you need to conisder the following :

Up to April 2020, there were 2988 people in NSW who had Covid. Of them, 372 required hospitalisation. 12.4% required hospitalisation. 124 needed ICU care. So 4% needing ICU care.

If there are now 2000 confirmed cases in Sydney a day, let's say we're looking at getting between 500 and a thousand. A day. If it's 750 and only 2% of them require ICU care, that's, what, 130-ish people a week.

How many ICU beds do you reckon we have here in sunny Perth where the sun always shines?

And, by "beds" I mean sufficent shifts of suitably trained staff, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for however many ******* months it takes for you cats to no longer be bored of not being able to travel - to all the other places where new variants of Covid are kicking the sh*t out of things.

Sure, I understand that these April 2020 figures are pre-vaccination, but the numbers aren't good. They especially aren't good when our public health system can't cope right now, when there is no pandemic.

I get that we need to open the doors at some point and, given the frighteningly large number of absolute dickheads we have around here, 90% vaccination has to be good enough, but, man, I hope we are prepared for it to be a fair bit shittier than a couple of hundred annoying boomers dying.

Go have a look at data from South Africa. Cases exploded but hospitilsations and deaths didn't go up by much. Also, cases with Omicron stayed in hospital for a much shorter time than delta. If it's not going to overwhelm the health system there then it's not going to here.

 

[Taylor]

View attachment 1301098

I think the current data shows 12 deaths from omicron in the last month across the whole word.

Unless Omicron has a longer delay between cases and deaths then the graphs have diverged significantly.

None of the articles are pushing the severity of the variant, just the case numbers. So expect big testing numbers to find bulk cases, such as requiring people with no symptoms to get tested to travel, and we will have a surge in case numbers that amount to nothing.

Fingers cross the data holds because at this rate we are three months away from the end of the pandemic. As in totally finished. We will have millions of surplus alpha variant vaccines, but oh well.

 

[TheLastCall]

Go have a look at data from South Africa. Cases exploded but hospitilsations and deaths didn't go up by much. Also, cases with Omicron stayed in hospital for a much shorter time than delta. If it's not going to overwhelm the health system there then it's not going to here.

You can’t compare South Africa’s data. The average age is much lower and they have relatively few people over 65 in compared to a western society.

 

[Taylor]

You can’t compare South Africa’s data. The average age is much lower and they have relatively few people over 65 in compared to a western society.

They are also at a 25% vaccination rate, and I wouldn't suggest their health care system is at all comparable.

But if we compare apples with apples, the SA data is showing 1.7% of omicron cases hospitalised compared with 19% of previous wave of delta.

Given the US data for delta was between 2 and 5% for hospitalisations, then a similar ten fold improvement with omicron would be pandemic ending.

If only 0.5% of cases need the hospital then we are fine.

 

[Bicco]

I had one polio jab as a kid, ONE. Israel is starting on there 4th covid jab.

And kids only read about Polio now.
Everyone in Australia has had multiple vaccinations/immunisations from birth.
If you refuse the COVID vaccine and end up in hospital (BTW you never answered my question if you would go to hospital if you got really sick from COVID, would you?) You'll get a whole heap more injections.
Getting injections has been completely normal in our society for generations. And that includes mandated vaccines. There's no loss of liberty or child abuse involved at all.

 

[Big Animal]

You can’t compare South Africa’s data. The average age is much lower and they have relatively few people over 65 in compared to a western society.

No but you can learn from it and I have been following the data as omicron has quickly spread around the world, and similar results are now been seen in other countries as each day passes since omicron was first identified (9 Nov which is now over 6 weeks ago).

There are many thousands of cases across the world and only 14 recorded deaths to date.

An Omicron oddity: The number of cases doesn't predict the number of deaths

With Omicron, we not only don't see the rise in death rates that were associated with the first waves, but we actually see a continuing decline in death rates, despite a radical increase in cases.

www.statnews.com

Israel death: "The Israeli hospital, where the death was reported, said the patient was a male in his sixties with a number of serious pre-existing conditions. "His morbidity stemmed mainly from pre-existing sicknesses and not from respiratory infection arising from the coronavirus,” the hospital said."

If Omicron is milder than Delta, what Covid deaths in UK, US, Israel indicate

Though Omicron is believed to be milder than Delta and it is not impacting the lungs, three countries have now recorded Omicron deaths.

www.hindustantimes.com

US death: "The individual was at higher risk of severe complications from Covid-19 due to his unvaccinated status and had underlying health conditions," the release said. County Judge Lina Hidalgo announced the death on Monday, saying the man was in his 50s. The case is the first known confirmed Omicron-related death in the US."

First confirmed US death related to Omicron variant was unvaccinated and had been infected before

Health experts are urging people to get vaccinated as the Delta and Omicron coronavirus variants spread across the globe. Follow here for the latest news updates.

edition.cnn.com

Yes, the hospitals will likely get extra busy as the omicron variant rushes through the population and some older and sicker people struggle with the symptoms, but with every passing day, the data just keeps showing in countries with population characteristics more like ours that the deaths and ventilation associated with delta is just not the same as with omicron.

Still need to get vaxxed, still need to make smart decisions re masks AND washing hands etc. and gatherings, but, the apocalyptic data some (media) appear to be waiting for just doesn't seem to be coming.

 

[Big Animal]

No but you can learn from it and I have been following the data as omicron has quickly spread around the world, and similar results are now been seen in other countries as each day passes since omicron was first identified (9 Nov which is now over 6 weeks ago).

There are many thousands of cases across the world and only 14 recorded deaths to date.

An Omicron oddity: The number of cases doesn't predict the number of deaths

With Omicron, we not only don't see the rise in death rates that were associated with the first waves, but we actually see a continuing decline in death rates, despite a radical increase in cases.

www.statnews.com

Israel death: "The Israeli hospital, where the death was reported, said the patient was a male in his sixties with a number of serious pre-existing conditions. "His morbidity stemmed mainly from pre-existing sicknesses and not from respiratory infection arising from the coronavirus,” the hospital said."

If Omicron is milder than Delta, what Covid deaths in UK, US, Israel indicate

Though Omicron is believed to be milder than Delta and it is not impacting the lungs, three countries have now recorded Omicron deaths.

www.hindustantimes.com

US death: "The individual was at higher risk of severe complications from Covid-19 due to his unvaccinated status and had underlying health conditions," the release said. County Judge Lina Hidalgo announced the death on Monday, saying the man was in his 50s. The case is the first known confirmed Omicron-related death in the US."

First confirmed US death related to Omicron variant was unvaccinated and had been infected before

Health experts are urging people to get vaccinated as the Delta and Omicron coronavirus variants spread across the globe. Follow here for the latest news updates.

edition.cnn.com

Yes, the hospitals will likely get extra busy as the omicron variant rushes through the population and some older and sicker people struggle with the symptoms, but with every passing day, the data just keeps showing in countries with population characteristics more like ours that the deaths and ventilation associated with delta is just not the same as with omicron.

Still need to get vaxxed, still need to make smart decisions re masks AND washing hands etc. and gatherings, but, the apocalyptic data some (media) appear to be waiting for just doesn't seem to be coming.

and now from our own ABC: "Victoria's Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton said there was some evidence suggesting the Omicron strain was "maybe a fifth" as virulent as the Delta variant, but warned that higher case numbers would still bring risk. The numbers are big with Omicron," he said, noting NSW had 15 times as many cases as they had a few weeks ago. So a fifth as severe, but 15 times as many cases is going to be a challenge to a health system so we need to do everything we can, boosters being at the backbone of that," he said."

'The interval needs to be shortened immediately': Victoria pushes for booster change as mask mandate expands

Victoria's Acting Premier James Merlino ramps up calls for the period between second and third COVID-19 vaccine doses to be shortened from five to four months, as the state introduces an indoor mask mandate in a bid to slow the spread of the Omicron variant.

www.abc.net.au

 

[stax on the mull]

Apart from the age demographics of the population comparison, and the level of vaccination rate comparison, the would be also a difference in how omircon might affect a country like South Africa that has previously had delta running rampant in the community compared to how omicron might effect a state like ours which has pretty much been Covid free from any of the strains.

 

[Purple Jesus]

3rd vaccine feels as good as expected

 

[Spirit Level]

Mark McGowan is a ****ing tyrant who is going to ruin this state.

Why would any event organiser bring anything fun into this state again when that when that egotistical ****head can just pull the string at any moment

 

[Clems Knee]

Mark McGowan is a ****ing tyrant who is going to ruin this state.

Why would any event organiser bring anything fun into this state again when that when that egotistical ****head can just pull the string at any moment

Festival events over the New Years have been cancelled because they are likely to be spreader events, especially as there are still dozens of young people who were at the Mess Hall who have avoided being tested, and they are likely to go to such an event. Are you blaming Mark McGowan because those people haven’t got tested?

Do you think the fact McGowan and his health policies have enabled the state’s economy to kick along for the last two years is ruining the state? Sounds contradictory to me.

And yes, festival events have taken a hit, thanks to Delta (alas not Goodrem) reaching our state. The fact is organisers across the world have had to live with uncertainty since the pandemic arrived.

I think you are having a tantrum. Perhaps you should use your reason and suppress your own ego right now.

 

[Taylor]

Counter point..

The races are going forward with crowds because the government allows them to. The festivals weren't allowed under any conditions and I think it would be a difficult task describing how one is different to the other in terms of close proximity, substance induced intimacy etc.

The festivals wanted to have passport and vaccine tracking to get in, they wanted measures to work within but weren't given that chance. They wanted the same measures the races were given to continue.

 

[Spirit Level]

Festival events over the New Years have been cancelled because they are likely to be spreader events, especially as there are still dozens of young people who were at the Mess Hall who have avoided being tested, and they are likely to go to such an event. Are you blaming Mark McGowan because those people haven’t got tested?

Do you think the fact McGowan and his health policies have enabled the state’s economy to kick along for the last two years is ruining the state? Sounds contradictory to me.

And yes, festival events have taken a hit, thanks to Delta (alas not Goodrem) reaching our state. The fact is organisers across the world have had to live with uncertainty since the pandemic arrived.

I think you are having a tantrum. Perhaps you should use your reason and suppress your own ego right now.

So it's OK to ban the arts but it's fine to make deals with the horse racing association?

Do you honestly believe there won't be a bunch of basic b*tches dancing and not wearing masks at the Perth races on new years day?

Do you think before you post?

 

[Taylor]

I think the demographic going to the races will be of a more wealthier and influential sort and as we have seen with special treatment for the likes of Stokes coming back from a birthday trip to the US at the height of their first wave being let off quarantine here in WA and then attending a ALP fundraiser, clearly the medical advice is that covid doesn't infect the rich.

 

[Kram]

Festival events over the New Years have been cancelled because they are likely to be spreader events, especially as there are still dozens of young people who were at the Mess Hall who have avoided being tested, and they are likely to go to such an event. Are you blaming Mark McGowan because those people haven’t got tested?

Do you think the fact McGowan and his health policies have enabled the state’s economy to kick along for the last two years is ruining the state? Sounds contradictory to me.

And yes, festival events have taken a hit, thanks to Delta (alas not Goodrem) reaching our state. The fact is organisers across the world have had to live with uncertainty since the pandemic arrived.

I think you are having a tantrum. Perhaps you should use your reason and suppress your own ego right now.

If you aren't already being paid by the Labor party over the years then I really think you should be

 

[Square Peg]

Mark McGowan is a ****ing tyrant who is going to ruin this state.

Why would any event organiser bring anything fun into this state again when that when that egotistical ****head can just pull the string at any moment

It's hard to fathom why anyone under the age of 40 would vote Labor again. You've been asked to make all the sacrifices for a virus that will do you no harm.
Labor has become the party to support the lifestyle and health of rich boomers. Has any party ever drifted further from its roots than the once great ALP?