Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[BFew]

The foster parents did not stalk or intimidate the bio parents during visitation in 2013/2014.

I just found what must have triggered this thought for me today.
It was the below claims from a post in here 7 weeks ago.

There was also an incident where the FFC was reported to have been watching from a distance the interaction between the parents and the children during access and intervened when the children were offered lollies or some sugar treat that she did not permit them to have. So she was effectively spying on their access visits. FFC was also trying to have the access visits stopped or at least less frequent or of shorter duration, on the basis that it was causing behavioural issues with the children. Presumably the spying on these visits was to gain evidence of the parents wrong doing with regards to their children to support this.

If legit, these claims (that someone in another forum claimed they thought came from claims an interview with the bio-grandmother)
and might be considered for potential propensity evidence in prosecuting any relevant charges against the foster mother.

I'm not sure if the above claims could be categorised as stalking or intimidation though.

Were you aware of these claims kat1234 ?

 

[31550]

Not hard to discover someone's digital identity if they use either

• their real name
• a digital identity that they have used before that you know

Or they react to social media posts of someone's posts that there was a good chance they would be viewing and possibly reacting to, and following the trail of who reacted, it takes you to a digital ID of someone that is clearly who you were looking for, from either pictures of themselves, or pictures, videos, or posts, and other things at that site that can only mean, or make you fairly confident, that that digital ID is, or most likely is who you were looking for.

In the case above it would be difficult to argue that contact was unwelcome.

 

[31550]

I just found what must have trigged this thought for me today.
It was the below claims from a post in here 7 weeks ago.



If legit, these claims (that someone in another forum claimed they thought came from claims an interview with the bio-grandmother)
and might be considered for potential propensity evidence in prosecuting any relevant charges against the foster mother.

I'm not sure if the above claims could be categorised as stalking or intimidation though.

Were you aware of these claims kat1234 ?

In this case the alleged victim would be bio family not FD.

 

[BFew]

In this case the alleged victim would be bio family not FD.

Don't foster kids usually have the right to not having their foster parents present during their bio-family visitations.

If foster kids in this type of situation are not victims of stalking or intimidation, are they victims of any other crimes under NSW laws?

 

[BFew]

In the case above it would be difficult to argue that contact was unwelcome.

I was referring to the person being stalked reacting to posts
Not the person doing the stalking reacting to posts

The post was all about finding out someone's digital ID.

Not whether reacting to someones post constituted stalking or intimidation

Maybe you are confused when I use the term react/reactions.

By react, I mean that when you or someone reads and "likes" one of my posts in here, you sometimes leave the post one of the seven different "Like" icons. Most often just the thumbs up one, that other posters can publicly see (and see who reacted in what way to each post).

By posting reactions in forums and on social media, leaves a digital trail of who is reading/viewing what, and usually indicates what they think about what they are reading/viewing. These 'reactions' can be used/abused to assist confirm/determine the ID, or likely real ID of someone.

 

[31550]

Don't foster kids usually have the right to not having their foster parents present during their bio-family visitations.

If foster kids in this type of situation are not victims of stalking or intimidation, are they victims of any other crimes under NSW laws?

The access visit arrangements vary from placement to placement. Usually they have time alone with their bios, and usually there is no interaction between foster carers and bios (e.g. the transportation is done by FACS or the care agency). Sometimes the visits are supervised. But sometimes carers drop off or collect from access visits.

 

[31550]

I was referring to the person being stalked reacting to posts
Not the person doing the stalking reacting to posts

The post was all about finding out someone's digital ID.

Not whether reacting to someones post constituted stalking or intimidation

Maybe you are confused when I use the term react/reactions.

By react, I mean that when you or someone reads and "likes" one of my posts in here, you sometimes leave the post one of the seven different "Like" icons. Most often just the thumbs up one, that other posters can publicly see (and see who reacted in what way to each post).

By posting reactions in forums and on social media, leaves a digital trail of who is reading/viewing what, and usually indicates what they think about what they are reading/viewing. These 'reactions' can be used/abused to assist confirm/determine the ID, or likely real ID of someone.

Yes you can discover someone's ID by devious means. That doesn't amount to stalking, until you actually use that ID to stalk them, e.g. by sending lots of threatening messages.

 

[Kurve]

The charge is stalk-intimidate. Harassment or contact which causes the recipient to fear for their safety. This does not necessarily mean violence. And it's Stalk OR Intimidate - doesn't necessarily mean both.

How do you know the specifics of the charge? Have you seen the charge sheets?

 

[BFew]

How do you know the specifics of the charge? Have you seen the charge sheets?

I wouldn't rely on the media to accurately report what's on the charge sheet.

We'd need something direct from the Police or Courts for that.

 

[Kurve]

I wouldn't rely on the media to accurately report what's on the charge sheet.

We'd need something direct from the Police or Courts for that.

I'm pretty sure the charge should be 'stalking and intimidation' on the FM. A charge of intimidation I think can stand alone without the stalking element?

 

[Kurve]

Yes you can discover someone's ID by devious means. That doesn't amount to stalking, until you actually use that ID to stalk them, e.g. by sending lots of threatening messages.

I think you're guessing here and you sound so certain that it might be a bit misleading. Stalking behaviour can include evidence of ringing a victim's school asking for information about them constantly for example, in that case the stalker doesn't have to make contact with the victim.

Successful prosecutions of stalking and intimidation chargges can be made on the intent. The victim doesn't have to prove they were made fearful, a prosecution only has to prove the intent.

 

[31550]

How do you know the specifics of the charge? Have you seen the charge sheets?

Please refer to Section 13 of the Crimes (Domestic and Personal Violence) Act 2007:
It is one and the same offence:

CRIMES (DOMESTIC AND PERSONAL VIOLENCE) ACT 2007 - SECT 13​

Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm

13 Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm​

(1) A person who stalks or intimidates another person with the intention of causing the other person to fear physical or mental harm is guilty of an offence.

: Maximum penalty--Imprisonment for 5 years or 50 penalty units, or both.

(2) For the purposes of this section, causing a person to fear physical or mental harm includes causing the person to fear physical or mental harm to another person with whom he or she has a domestic relationship.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a person intends to cause fear of physical or mental harm if he or she knows that the conduct is likely to cause fear in the other person.

(4) For the purposes of this section, the prosecution is not required to prove that the person alleged to have been stalked or intimidated actually feared physical or mental harm.

(5) A person who attempts to commit an offence against subsection (1) is guilty of an offence against that subsection and is punishable as if the offence attempted had been committed.

 

[31550]

I think you're guessing here and you sound so certain that it might be a bit misleading. Stalking behaviour can include evidence of ringing a victim's school asking for information about them constantly for example, in that case the stalker doesn't have to make contact with the victim.

Successful prosecutions of stalking and intimidation chargges can be made on the intent. The victim doesn't have to prove they were made fearful, a prosecution only has to prove the intent.

Yes the intent must be proven. In the example given, where someone obtained someone's digital ID, how would you prove intent if it (the ID) was never used?

 

[Kurve]

Yes the intent must be proven. In the example given, where someone obtained someone's digital ID, how would you prove intent if it (the ID) was never used?

I havent referred to a digital ID, I don't think it's relevant to my point.

 

[BFew]

William Tyrrell's foster parents hold sale of kids' bikes and clothes

Days after being hit with stalking and intimidation charges, William Tyrrell's foster parents are holding a massive fire sale of goods, including children's bikes, car seats, cars, tools and a water tank.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Kurve]

CRIMES (DOMESTIC AND PERSONAL VIOLENCE) ACT 2007 - SECT 13​

Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm

13 Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm​

This isn't proving your argument that the charge is 'stalking OR intimidation'.

CRIMES (DOMESTIC AND PERSONAL VIOLENCE) ACT 2007 - SECT 8​

Meaning of "stalking"

8 Meaning of "stalking"​

(1) In this Act,
"stalking" includes the following--

(a) the following of a person about,

(b) the watching or frequenting of the vicinity of, or an approach to, a person's place of residence, business or work or any place that a person frequents for the purposes of any social or leisure activity,

(c) contacting or otherwise approaching a person using the internet or any other technologically assisted means.

(2) For the purpose of determining whether a person's conduct amounts to stalking, a court may have regard to any pattern of violence (especially violence constituting a domestic violence offence) in the person's behaviour.

CRIMES (DOMESTIC AND PERSONAL VIOLENCE) ACT 2007 - SECT 7​

Meaning of "intimidation"

7 Meaning of "intimidation"​

(1) For the purposes of this Act,
"intimidation" of a person means--

(a) conduct (including cyberbullying) amounting to harassment or molestation of the person, or

Note : An example of cyberbullying may be the bullying of a person by publication or transmission of offensive material over social media or via email.

(b) an approach made to the person by any means (including by telephone, telephone text messaging, e-mailing and other technologically assisted means) that causes the person to fear for his or her safety, or

(c) any conduct that causes a reasonable apprehension of injury to a person or to a person with whom he or she has a domestic relationship, or of violence or damage to any person or property.

(2) For the purpose of determining whether a person's conduct amounts to intimidation, a court may have regard to any pattern of violence (especially violence constituting a domestic violence offence) in the person's behaviour.

Edit: Until I see something firmer, I'm going with 'Stalking AND Intimidation'.

 

[Kurve]

William Tyrrell's foster parents hold sale of kids' bikes and clothes

Days after being hit with stalking and intimidation charges, William Tyrrell's foster parents are holding a massive fire sale of goods, including children's bikes, car seats, cars, tools and a water tank.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Surrender.

And I hope they've surrendered their passport/s.

 

[BFew]

In the example given, where someone obtained someone's digital ID, how would you prove intent if it (the ID) was never used?

Who are you saying suggested that only obtaining someone's digital ID can in itself constitute stalking?

 

[BFew]

Edit: Until I see something firmer, I'm going with 'Stalking AND Intimidation'.

Today's Daily Mail article on the fosters, still states stalking and intimidation.

William Tyrrell's foster parents hold sale of kids' bikes and clothes

Days after being hit with stalking and intimidation charges, William Tyrrell's foster parents are holding a massive fire sale of goods, including children's bikes, car seats, cars, tools and a water tank.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Days after they were hit with stalking and intimidation charges, William Tyrrell's foster parents have held a massive fire sale of goods including children's bikes and car seats.'

 

[31550]

Today's Daily Mail article on the fosters, still states stalking and intimidation.

William Tyrrell's foster parents hold sale of kids' bikes and clothes

Days after being hit with stalking and intimidation charges, William Tyrrell's foster parents are holding a massive fire sale of goods, including children's bikes, car seats, cars, tools and a water tank.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'Days after they were hit with stalking and intimidation charges, William Tyrrell's foster parents have held a massive fire sale of goods including children's bikes and car seats.'

Yes, because the charges will be pursuant to Section13 of the NSW CRIMES (DOMESTIC AND PERSONAL VIOLENCE) ACT 2007, which is titled "Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm"

Whether the nature/particulars of the charge allege stalking, intimidation, or both, they will be charged pursuant to Section 13: "Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm".

Reporter: What are the charges?
Informant: "They are charged under Section 13"
Reporter: "What's that?"
Informant: "Stalking and Intimidation".

 

[kat1234]

Stalking and intimidation is behaviour that can be and almost always is, a well-established precursor to violence among parties known to each other. This has had a lot of attention recently.

Stalking and intimidation especially in the context of family violence is very dangerous. There is a very sad story of a family in Queensland, Hannah Clarke and her children. Don’t want to talk much about the situation as it’s very sickening but forum members can Google it.

 

[Kurve]

Stalking and intimidation especially in the context of family violence is very dangerous. There is a very sad story of a family in Queensland, Hannah Clarke and her children. Don’t want to talk much about the situation as it’s very sickening but forum members can Google it.

Police take this stuff seriously. *

We have a thread here

Brisbane Car Fire Deaths

What horrible news. The alleged perpetrator of a car being set alight along with its occupants. “He’s poured petrol on me.” https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/multiple-people-have-reportedly-died-following-a-car-fire-in-brisbane/news-story/b3150c84e7ef94a85b8c20bfeb4c3b6f Such a...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[31550]

Gotta pay those lawyers fees. Korn doesn't come cheap. And might as well get rid of the kid stuff. Their fostering days are over.
The pressure tactics continue, but still no evidence that leads to solving William's case.

 

[Coastie19]

Gotta pay those lawyers fees. Korn doesn't come cheap. And might as well get rid of the kid stuff. Their fostering days are over.
The pressure tactics continue, but still no evidence that leads to solving William's caIs anyone lese

Is anyone else not thinking selling potential evidence from the house?

 

[Kurve]

Is anyone else not thinking selling potential evidence from the house?

Yep, I was thinking of the Mac computer 'That's one the cops might not have got .. yet."