Autopsy Round 21, 2022: Geelong v St.Kilda

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Mowman said:
I was listening to this when he said that

Think when Lyon gets another go at coaching he will be very good
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I think he's always been a pretty good coach but I think he is also of poor character.
 
The Punter said:
Isn't the footy department cap just a tax on spending past a certain amount? If so, clubs should just go get who they want and spend what they can.
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Apparently no one has done that yet which is surprising for the big clubs. I’d suggest you must need afl permission which must be hard to get. No way we would get it so we don’t want other clubs going over it.
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
Leadership.
Gehrig pissing on someone.

Milne, Sexual assault charges.
Gram, retired after stalking a woman.
Fisher?

Luke Ball, rat deserting the ship for money.
His building the team, consisted of two good drafts. Nearly every other draft or trade was a fail.

The Structure of the club consisted of:

Coked up Alcoholic in charge.
I
Grant
I
Trainee receptionist

Players like Thompson and Lenny and Hudgton predated him.
We go nowhere near the 2009 GF without players like like Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner, even Dawson and Ray.

He gave up pick17 in the best draft ever to get Heath Black for 3 years. Worse deal than Hannebery IMO Way worse.
2 picks ( including pick 6 ) for already injured Barry Brooks ( another worse than Dan ). He also traded pick 17 for a guy who only had 3 years left.
First round pick for Watts? Corruption not?

I didn't want Thomas sacked at the time, but i sure as hell can't look back on things and think he was the messiah.
And if anyone mentions "luck" then they should include it when they talk about Richo as well.
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I have a mate who was traded to the saints. He flew to SOuth Africa for sort of camp and has to get a taxi from the airport and arrives at the hotel at 11am. He rings the manager and finds out that they are at the pub, who wanders over and the manager introduces to him a few guys and gets him a beer.

Along comes Thomas who snatched his beer and drinks it and the tells him that’s so he knows who the ******* boss is.

No big surprise GT did himself in despite being a winning coach.


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Geelong v St Kilda​

6 Max Holmes (GEEL)
6 Brandan Parfitt (GEEL)
6 Sam De Koning (GEEL)
5 Cameron Guthrie (GEEL)
4 Isaac Smith (GEEL)
2 Zach Guthrie (GEEL)
1 Sam Menegola (GEEL)
 
NZ_Tiger said:
I have a mate who was traded to the saints. He flew to SOuth Africa for sort of camp and has to get a taxi from the airport and arrives at the hotel at 11am. He rings the manager and finds out that they are at the pub, who wanders over and the manager introduces to him a few guys and gets him a beer.

Along comes Thomas who snatched his beer and drinks it and the tells him that’s so he knows who the ******* boss is.

No big surprise GT did himself in despite being a winning coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If it was Fiora he was never an alpha.
 
Cairnsman said:
Gresh is a midget with a crab like kick suited to attempting a goal from the boundary line deep in the fwd pocket or on the 50, he just doesn't have the physical attributes to match the modern era premier midfielders and his skill level will never be adequate as well. Best the coach find a position that suits his limitations which is probably a forward pocket or HFF with maybe the occasional run in the midfielder but if the club think he is our marquee mid (which I don't think they do) then we are stuffed.
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Gresh is actually a good short kick, probably better than a lot of mids if he is kicking within 40 meters. His team mates should be coached not to expect the ball from him 60 meters away and he should be coached on finding an option within his means. Excellent clearance and line breaking player and dangerous around goals.
 

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NZ_Tiger said:
I have a mate who was traded to the saints. He flew to SOuth Africa for sort of camp and has to get a taxi from the airport and arrives at the hotel at 11am. He rings the manager and finds out that they are at the pub, who wanders over and the manager introduces to him a few guys and gets him a beer.

Along comes Thomas who snatched his beer and drinks it and the tells him that’s so he knows who the ******* boss is.

No big surprise GT did himself in despite being a winning coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Damn i forgot Peckett, confessed alcoholic at that time.
 
Hope Steele studies his second quarter on the weekend. If he can embed that level of desperation back into his game look out
 
Simon Templar said:
You can't repair a car without the right tools. As a football club, the question is... Do we have the right tools, as in, players & staff? Mid year we were 8 - 3 & most Saints fans were more than happy the team. Then we lost to Essendon & everybody sank their boots into the club & our collective team confidence plummeted. I had a far different opinion of the Essendon game than everything I read on this board. I believe The Don's played an exceptional game, by far their best game the year thus far. We had a poor start to that game & that gave our opponent some confidence & they just took off from there. I definitely though they soundly beat us rather than us capitulating. I think most of us recognise that game as a turning point in our season.

At 8 - 3 & sitting in 4th spot on the ladder I thought we be had been punching above our weight & at some stage things we level out a bit & we would have some sort of reality check. After the Essendon game... everybody sank their boots into the Saints. Commentators, Saints fans, fans of all stripes. Is it any wonder the players & the team as a whole lost confidence. We have not been the same team since.

All teams & players have lulls in confidence. You can see it within a game with momentum swings. Who's job is it to instil or reignite confidence? I don't really know the answer to that but I will presume it's part of a coaches job whether it be the head coach. I presume teams have psychologists.

We, as fans, can knock players for not performing & that's just part of sport but I really think our ongoing poor form is due mainly to a lack of confidence in ourselves. We proved, earlier in the season, that a bunch misfits could mix it with the best.

So, it is my firm belief, even though I've never set foot in a clubhouse, that it's the coaches that have failed us. It's the coaches that need to lift the players, get their heads right for a game. Every player will react differently so it needs to be individually tailored. There are people at the club that haven't done their job... Identify the dodgy tools & replace them.
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I disagree with you but can appreciate the effort you put into this - awesome. Keep it up mate.
 
Simon Templar said:
I have often wondered how some clubs seem to be able to afford buying players the way they do eg Geelong with Dangerfield Cameron & Smith etc
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I’d accept less money to play in a club that wins. If you offered me two jobs and one was at a miserable looking dead end workplace where everyone is a bit incompetent and you’ll likely do all the work or another job that pays less but has a great manager, excellent co-workers and more opportunities for success I’d pick the lower paying one every time
 
Simon Templar said:
You can't repair a car without the right tools. As a football club, the question is... Do we have the right tools, as in, players & staff? Mid year we were 8 - 3 & most Saints fans were more than happy the team. Then we lost to Essendon & everybody sank their boots into the club & our collective team confidence plummeted. I had a far different opinion of the Essendon game than everything I read on this board. I believe The Don's played an exceptional game, by far their best game the year thus far. We had a poor start to that game & that gave our opponent some confidence & they just took off from there. I definitely though they soundly beat us rather than us capitulating. I think most of us recognise that game as a turning point in our season.

At 8 - 3 & sitting in 4th spot on the ladder I thought we be had been punching above our weight & at some stage things we level out a bit & we would have some sort of reality check. After the Essendon game... everybody sank their boots into the Saints. Commentators, Saints fans, fans of all stripes. Is it any wonder the players & the team as a whole lost confidence. We have not been the same team since.

All teams & players have lulls in confidence. You can see it within a game with momentum swings. Who's job is it to instil or reignite confidence? I don't really know the answer to that but I will presume it's part of a coaches job whether it be the head coach. I presume teams have psychologists.

We, as fans, can knock players for not performing & that's just part of sport but I really think our ongoing poor form is due mainly to a lack of confidence in ourselves. We proved, earlier in the season, that a bunch misfits could mix it with the best.

So, it is my firm belief, even though I've never set foot in a clubhouse, that it's the coaches that have failed us. It's the coaches that need to lift the players, get their heads right for a game. Every player will react differently so it needs to be individually tailored. There are people at the club that haven't done their job... Identify the dodgy tools & replace them.
Click to expand...

George said:
I disagree with you but can appreciate the effort you put into this - awesome. Keep it up mate.
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There is absolutely something to say that the fans are partially responsible for the club’s slump in form. You see big clubs backing in the players 110% every single week win or loss. We’re so broken that we understandably melt or cry at the first sign of a disappointment but this reverberates through to the players weak mentality and makes them play even worse knowing the fans aren’t really behind them (the pessimism infects them). They lose more and we’re even more disappointed in them which makes them play even worse. So on and so on.

We need to be cheering them and behind them so much more if we want them to have that extra % that might turn a game. It’s fake and lying and rose tinted but if we don’t this team won’t ever believe in themselves.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
There is absolutely something to say that the fans are partially responsible for the club’s slump in form. You see big clubs backing in the players 110% every single week win or loss. We’re so broken that we understandably melt or cry at the first sign of a disappointment but this reverberates through to the players weak mentality and makes them play even worse knowing the fans aren’t really behind them (the pessimism infects them). They lose more and we’re even more disappointed in them which makes them play even worse. So on and so on.

We need to be cheering them and behind them so much more if we want them to have that extra % that might turn a game. It’s fake and lying and rose tinted but if we don’t this team won’t ever believe in themselves.
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You are taking the piss surely. I think we have little to no influence on any of that. It's the football department's responsibility to create a successful football program and that responsibility is shared by the coaches, players and support staff.
 
gringo2011 said:
Or learn to use him to maximise his best elements. If people think Taranto is any better they are going to be disappointed. Gresham is a line breaker and in tight player. He's usually dumping kicks out because he's playing swarmed. You can pull players toward him for a get out handball or have a plan for when it happens. We look like a lot is organic not planned for. The best players are often the best because teammates cover their deficiencies and use their brilliance. We are all playing for the individual.
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Agree. I think that’s why he’s best as a small forward. I just don’t think he’s the midfield answer to many questions. I’d love to be wrong.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
I’d accept less money to play in a club that wins. If you offered me two jobs and one was at a miserable looking dead end workplace where everyone is a bit incompetent and you’ll likely do all the work or another job that pays less but has a great manager, excellent co-workers and more opportunities for success I’d pick the lower paying one every time
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You didn't mention any geographical lure... Not that anyone, in their right mind, would want to live in Geelong but a lot of players like to return to their roots after being at other clubs, especially interstate clubs.

We're not comparing a Mcdonalds Drive-Thru with 5 star michelin restaurants here but I do actually agree with what you are saying, It's not always about money.
 
George said:
You are taking the piss surely. I think we have little to no influence on any of that. It's the football department's responsibility to create a successful football program and that responsibility is shared by the coaches, players and support staff.
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No effect on the management of the club obviously. And partially taking the piss but I think our club is like Kyrgios in that final. Needing the fans to be constantly cheering to have any bit of mental resilience. It shouldn’t be like that but it’s sort of a fact. They can’t deal with a hostile crowd so if we want them to have the best chance of winning we need to show up in huge numbers and be loud.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
No effect on the management of the club obviously. And partially taking the piss but I think our club is like Kyrgios in that final. Needing the fans to be constantly cheering to have any bit of mental resilience. It shouldn’t be like that but it’s sort of a fact. They can’t deal with a hostile crowd so if we want them to have the best chance of winning we need to show up in huge numbers and be loud.
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We did better in 2020 with no crowds
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
There is absolutely something to say that the fans are partially responsible for the club’s slump in form. You see big clubs backing in the players 110% every single week win or loss. We’re so broken that we understandably melt or cry at the first sign of a disappointment but this reverberates through to the players weak mentality and makes them play even worse knowing the fans aren’t really behind them (the pessimism infects them). They lose more and we’re even more disappointed in them which makes them play even worse. So on and so on.

We need to be cheering them and behind them so much more if we want them to have that extra % that might turn a game. It’s fake and lying and rose tinted but if we don’t this team won’t ever believe in themselves.
Click to expand...


This is not true, I have friends that follow Melbourne and Richmond, if people think I'm negative you can't even fathom how much they raged when they were s**t. I went to games where the crowd actively booed their own players, particularly the Tigers. Fans pessimism probably has very little influence. I think big crowds can bring energy to a side but the pessimism probably doesn't even register.
 
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