Player Watch Welcome to Hawthorn, Denver Grainger-Barras

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Jazzfan]

Because he's 20, resting rucks are still big.

No doubt, but none have really been natural forwards or overly strong in the air.

Point was more around he hasn't been given the opposition key forwards this year, which is smart.

 

[KermitJagger]

No doubt, but none have really been natural forwards or overly strong in the air.

Point was more around he hasn't been given the opposition key forwards this year, which is smart.

Sure, we've got better options for them.

He has rotated on to key forwards occasionally though, stood Naughton on the weekend a couple of times and didn't lose. He needs some time to develop and with luck he could become that Grimes or Rampe type of defender who looks undersized but is able to play on big forwards.

 

[HawthornHawk]

Denver's ceiling is huge and if he fulfills his potential we'll have a really important player on our hands.

What i've found a bit concerning is that the coaches comments from Box Hill have often commented on his inability to maintain concentration throughout a game. Hopefully this is fitness related and can be improved. It's been pretty evident a few times when more cumbersome opponents of his have managed to completely cook him on simple double back leads.

 

[toomanysquibs]

He's avoided those big key forwards you've mentioned this year mate.

He's mostly had either the medium/small types, Weightman, Cumberland, Ainsworth recently, or a resting ruckman like Soldo earlier in the year and Miller rd 22 (alongside Cumberland and ultimately Lynch).

Not posting about if he will or want make it, just saying he hasn't been ragged dolled by big forwards this year because other than a brief stint on Lynch, he hasn't stood them really.

Hopefully he has a massive pre-season.

He started on Curnow against the Blues, and was directly opposed to them all at contests at times in 2022 – it's just the way footy is played nowadays..

 

[toomanysquibs]

No need to be aggressive mate.

I'm saying I don't think posters that have posted reservations have done so based on DGB playing against key forwards.

Yes, he probably has had contests with them, but these are limited in comparison to the number he has had against medium forwards he's mostly been getting.

Fair call, cleaned it up a bit.

 

[Dewnior]

This isn't to pot DGB (I've done enough of that elsewhere) - but elite athleticism?

He's not slow, but hasn't shown a regular turn of speed on field.
He hasn't shown much of a leap - certainly not elite to overcome his lack of height on 200+ monsters.
He's outbodied by virtually all AFL players - expected of a draftee - but his build is so sleight I fear he won't ever put on significant size to handle a KPF.
He's shorter than virtually every KPF drafted - combined with his lack of leap, I struggle to see how he can be forecast to become a KPD.
He is significantly lacking in stamina, and struggles to run out games, requiring additional bench management.

If anything, his physical size and athleticism is what will hold him back.

3rd Tall interceptor is likely to be his best role - maybe replacing Sicily as the undersized 2nd KPD. Unlike Sicily, he doesn't have another attribute (long kicking) to make up for his physical shortcomings.

I don't question DGB's football ability - more the decision to spend such a high draft pick on a player that will potentially never be able to play in a KPP role due to his physical limitations. It's a big price to pay for a defensive HBF.

Do you think DGB could become a KP or 3rd tall forward?

 

[Dewnior]

What i've found a bit concerning is that the coaches comments from Box Hill have often commented on his inability to maintain concentration throughout a game. Hopefully this is fitness related and can be improved. It's been pretty evident a few times when more cumbersome opponents of his have managed to completely cook him on simple double back leads.

There's plenty of ADHD drugs that can fix that

 

[Davo-27]

There's plenty of ADHD drugs that can fix that

Or just increase your testosterone, testosterone helps with concentration/focus.

 

[TDS7]

Or just increase your testosterone, testosterone helps with concentration/focus.

I mean if we're getting really serious, I've got a mate who can get his hands on some real primo stuff. Just don't ask questions and go see Mr. Dank 'round the back when you're ready.

 

[Brishawk]

I mean if we're getting really serious, I've got a mate who can get his hands on some real primo stuff. Just don't ask questions and go see Mr. Dank 'round the back when you're ready.

Shane Charter likes this.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Do you think DGB could become a KP or 3rd tall forward?

KP Forward? No. Same issues (magnified) he has a defender, just not tall/big/strong enough.

3rd Tall (at either end) - I think this is where he ends up - similar to a Frost (or early Stratton) he can step up on some KPP's but his physical dimensions will give limitations to his suitable opponents. At best he could be a Gibson (who was exceptional btw), but don't think he has the athleticism Gibbo had to overcome his midget-ness (as a KPP)

His draft highlights show more elements of the Howe/Lever 3rd man in Interceptor, less of the McGovern/Sicily/(Lake) 1 on 1 contested intercept marks. So that means playing a FB, CHB, and DGB as the 3rd tall covering.

 

[KermitJagger]

KP Forward? No. Same issues (magnified) he has a defender, just not tall/big/strong enough.

3rd Tall (at either end) - I think this is where he ends up - similar to a Frost (or early Stratton) he can step up on some KPP's but his physical dimensions will give limitations to his suitable opponents. At best he could be a Gibson (who was exceptional btw), but don't think he has the athleticism Gibbo had to overcome his midget-ness (as a KPP)

His draft highlights show more elements of the Howe/Lever 3rd man in Interceptor, less of the McGovern/Sicily/(Lake) 1 on 1 contested intercept marks. So that means playing a FB, CHB, and DGB as the 3rd tall covering.

How many of Sicily's draft highlights show 1 on 1 contested intercept marks?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

How many of Sicily's draft highlights show 1 on 1 contested intercept marks?

Was about to go on a rant, then realised "draft" highlights. You're absolutely right. It would be great if DGB could develop into the defensive player Sicily is (despite being 2 inches taller, the younger KPP's are too so he will have the same natural disadvantage). I don't think he could be as offensive attacking.

(He's seemingly a natural at the offensive part!)

 

[Simon Crawshay]

KP Forward? No. Same issues (magnified) he has a defender, just not tall/big/strong enough.

3rd Tall (at either end) - I think this is where he ends up - similar to a Frost (or early Stratton) he can step up on some KPP's but his physical dimensions will give limitations to his suitable opponents. At best he could be a Gibson (who was exceptional btw), but don't think he has the athleticism Gibbo had to overcome his midget-ness (as a KPP)

His draft highlights show more elements of the Howe/Lever 3rd man in Interceptor, less of the McGovern/Sicily/(Lake) 1 on 1 contested intercept marks. So that means playing a FB, CHB, and DGB as the 3rd tall covering.

Gibbo is shorter than DGB by 6cm is but Gibbo was an absolute physical specimen in his playing days at 189cm and 93kg. He was such a beautiful balance of being strong enough to mix it with the big boys and hold his ground yet had panther like reflexes when the ball hit the ground.

This is what is going to break or make DGB, if he can build a body like Gibbo he can be a real asset.

Going to be a big pre season in the gym for the young fella is all I will say.

He should post this picture over his bed as inspiration

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

...

NTTAWWT

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Looking at the intra mtach highlights, a bit worried about Denver's lack of progress. He doesn't have the strength to go with the bigger forwards/resting rucks nor the speed to go with the third talls.

Expect oppo coaches will find it very easy to force a mtach up that works in their favour.

Anyone seen something during the off-season/pre-season to suggest otherwise?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Looking at the intra mtach highlights, a bit worried about Denver's lack of progress. He doesn't have the strength to go with the bigger forwards/resting rucks nor the speed to go with the third talls.

Expect oppo coaches will find it very easy to force a mtach up that works in their favour.

Anyone seen something during the off-season/pre-season to suggest otherwise?

He can't stand and wrestle to play tall defender, he is too slow on the lead for mid-size forwards and lacks the agility to play small. His disposal isn't damaging enough to be a loose rebounder, gives away lots of free kicks, and only looks really good when he has a free run and jump at the high ball. He isn't super tall either, like Dustin Fletcher who was able to overcome his lack of size/strength as a schoolboy playing against men.

He reminds me greatly of a young Timmy O'Brien at the moment, albeit with less speed, agility and terrible endurance (O'Brien would have built these over his 8 pre-seasons). The thing he does have, is the only thing TOB didn't. Sticky hands.

I hope another year or maybe two of physical growth and development might allow him to be competitive, (maybe taking Sicily's 2nd/3rd tall spot in 2026/7?) but feel he's going to at best be a late bloomer due to his physical limitations. Needing both size/strength and endurance makes his development a tricky path to navigate.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Geez kiss of death if I've ever seen one.

 

[CHUBBSS]

He can't stand and wrestle to play tall defender, he is too slow on the lead for mid-size forwards and lacks the agility to play small. His disposal isn't damaging enough to be a loose rebounder, gives away lots of free kicks, and only looks really good when he has a free run and jump at the high ball. He isn't super tall either, like Dustin Fletcher who was able to overcome his lack of size/strength as a schoolboy playing against men.

He reminds me greatly of a young Timmy O'Brien at the moment, albeit with less speed, agility and terrible endurance (O'Brien would have built these over his 8 pre-seasons). The thing he does have, is the only thing TOB didn't. Sticky hands.

I hope another year or maybe two of physical growth and development might allow him to be competitive, (maybe taking Sicily's 2nd/3rd tall spot in 2026/7?) but feel he's going to at best be a late bloomer due to his physical limitations. Needing both size/strength and endurance makes his development a tricky path to navigate.

I haven’t seen him as slow, slow by decision but the pace is their, repeat sprints definitely not yet

 

[extractasam]

For all he seems to be lacking in size/strength, he’s still a tough bastard. Probably the hardest thing to teach. The sooner he develops the better for us but it’s his 3rd year still isn’t it? Still so fresh

 

[Mojo]

He can't stand and wrestle to play tall defender, he is too slow on the lead for mid-size forwards and lacks the agility to play small. His disposal isn't damaging enough to be a loose rebounder, gives away lots of free kicks, and only looks really good when he has a free run and jump at the high ball. He isn't super tall either, like Dustin Fletcher who was able to overcome his lack of size/strength as a schoolboy playing against men.

He reminds me greatly of a young Timmy O'Brien at the moment, albeit with less speed, agility and terrible endurance (O'Brien would have built these over his 8 pre-seasons). The thing he does have, is the only thing TOB didn't. Sticky hands.

I hope another year or maybe two of physical growth and development might allow him to be competitive, (maybe taking Sicily's 2nd/3rd tall spot in 2026/7?) but feel he's going to at best be a late bloomer due to his physical limitations. Needing both size/strength and endurance makes his development a tricky path to navigate.

Out of curiosity, how come he was so successful in U18's? All those things were true back then, too.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Out of curiosity, how come he was so successful in U18's? All those things were true back then, too.

Commenting generally, as only saw his highlights, which obviously don't show enough to gauge ability over a game. The DGB we see now is essentially the same we saw in U/18s. Despite nominally being a "Key Defender", his play was that of a 3rd tall intercept/flanker. It doesn't mean he won't get there, just that the elements he is lacking in now, were also apparent in his junior football. The difference is he no longer has the freedom to play loose, and lacks any physical advantage over his opponents - shorter opponents are faster, but just as strong, whilst taller opponents are stronger, but just as quick. There's nothing DGB can use as his "1 wood" at the moment.

Junior football is much more aligned to individual players' brilliance - as you would expect with a much greater variance of performance and lower overall ability and development time. Systems are replaced by more one-on-one play, especially into the forward line, with a much higher proportion of entries being misdirected or mistimed. It's why so many junior midfielders become flankers and key forwards become defenders - in junior football you put the best players in the most important positions, but once they get to seniors they just aren't 'good enough' to do that in AFL so find other positions.

In almost all the highlights I watched, DGB was able to attack the ball without care for an opponent. There was very little in the way of actual physical contests, even in his highlights the large majority were him coming 3rd man in, or beating his opponent to the drop through better reading of the flight from opposition poor disposal.

AFL is far quicker, systems are significantly better and opposition players far more organised and familiar with their teammates. Reactionary footballers don't last unless they have other exceptional attributes. That, combined with his terrible endurance and undeveloped body leaves him unable to compete or offer anything offensively - he is literally a liability on the field, able to be exposed by almost any opponent he plays on.

I hope that in time he develops the tank and strength to become adequate (in AFL terms), and his skill at reading the play as a loose man can come into play. Think about Jeremy Howe - he was a great mark from day 1, but was the best part of five seasons and almost 100 games in before he became a reliable, successful AFL footballer.

I don't think forward is the go for DGB either, as his lack of endurance and agility will make him an eas(ier) target for opposition defenders to run off and create, without fear of him making position against them through work-rate. Similar to TOB - looks good coming in third man, but lacks the size/strength to compete under physical pressure.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Looking at the intra mtach highlights, a bit worried about Denver's lack of progress. He doesn't have the strength to go with the bigger forwards/resting rucks nor the speed to go with the third talls.

Expect oppo coaches will find it very easy to force a mtach up that works in their favour.

Anyone seen something during the off-season/pre-season to suggest otherwise?

There was a great kick to Greene's advantage. DGB was able to apply pressure but credit where it was due, it was a good mark from Greene.

A perfect spear to a leading Greene, literally no defender in the league is doing anything about that.

A kick to Reeve's advantage in a 1v1, which allowed him to use his size advantage.

 

[Coach Killer]

Kid is a star. Nobody has embarrassed him and nobody will.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

He’s 20yrs old, for the record.

It’s quite ridiculous that people are looking to draw conclusions on his development at such a young age.