Opinion Hawthorn - Clarkson - Fagan Racism Investigation

[Geoffa32]

This shouldnt be about race though..

If whats alleged has actually occured then its closing in on fxxkin kidnapping!

Regardless of the skin colour of those involved.

How can you take a sim card off someone, force them to live with someone they dont want to, control just about every aspect of their lives including who they are allowed to see and talk to even if it is family and expect that this should just be brushed under the carpet by attending a couple of training courses!..

And thats without even considering they may have told someone to have their unborn fetus aborted.

If any of this is found to have occured how can the police not be involved in the investigation into it?

That should be the case regardless of the skin colours of those involved.

Agree.

Just my sarcasm/cynicism in how the AFL will frame this outcome.

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[Geoffa32]

I would suggest, that the bits in parentheses are verbatim.

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner. I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I’d be living with one of the other coaches from that night onwards."

In a state of shock and confusion, Ian phoned Amy, by then at work herself, and in a conversation that lasted only seconds, relayed information she could barely fathom.

"I just remember that he could barely get the words out and he seemed to be crying, and he quickly said that we needed to terminate the pregnancy and end the relationship," Amy says.

"Just like that. I will never forget that phone call or the heartbreak I felt in that moment. I was frozen on the spot, completely numb from what I had just heard Ian say. I had no idea what was happening.”

Amy says worse was to come. With Ian's phone disconnected and his whereabouts unknown, she had to somehow stay calm for her toddler and her unborn baby and hunt down club staff she barely knew.

People are so used to tabloid clickbait generation, and forgotten (or not know) that when a proper journalist uses quotes it is verbatim as said to them.

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[Ramify]

I would suggest, that the bits in parentheses are verbatim.

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner. I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I’d be living with one of the other coaches from that night onwards."

In a state of shock and confusion, Ian phoned Amy, by then om.

"I just remember that he could barely get the words out and he seemed to be crying, and he quickly said that we needed to terminate the pregnancy and end the relationship," Amy says.

"Just like that. I will never forget that phone call or the heartbreak I felt in that moment. I was frozen on the spot, completely numb from what I had just heard Ian say. I had no idea what was happening.”

Amy says worse was to come. With Ian's phone disconnected and his whereabouts unknown, she had to somehow stay calm for her toddler and her unborn baby and hunt down club staff she barely knew.

I get it(How quotes are meant to work).

Ive tried, but unless scripted or conducted via written correspondence, I struggle to picture two or more people spontaneously using such similar language, sentence structure, tone etc, in separate live interview settings.
Not saying they didn't, or that the interviews were face to face(I wouldnt know)just that I find it hard to imagine.

I admittedly do suck very much at English.

 

[Bearded Clam]

A lot of people seem to feel they have the right to condemn a situation when they have no understanding of the context, especially when it comes to aboriginal family backgrounds. Many aboriginal families are strong and supportive, but there are also many that have suffered enormously from inter-generational trauma of racial abuse, the repercussions of the stolen generations and the generational impoverishment that has come from losing their land and being pushed onto reserves.

It's great that so many people want to throw their support behind the aboriginal situation, but blindly choosing an issue to do so, and being prepared to destroy the lives of people who have done so much good for so many people, is another travesty and it will not help anyone.

One widespread result of intergenerational trauma is drug abuse, broken families, domestic abuse, and downward spirals that lead to crime and often jail time (this is true for white families also).

Football clubs have done a huge amount to support young aboriginal men, to give them a positive community, purpose and a good livelihood should they succeed. It could definitely do more in that space but the positive role models for young aboriginal men that have come out of footballl clubs has no parallel in Australian society. If the partner and extended families of a player uses drugs like ice, amphetamines, and alcohol, that young player's future is going to be torpedoed. If (and I don't know what has happened at Hawthorn, if anything) senior leaders at a football club try to guide players toward a more positive future, and avoid things like foetal alcohol syndrome, domestic violence, loss of direction and wasted talent for young promising kids, and they did so at a time when there were few other support structures in our society as a whole available, how can you condemn them so blatantly and self-righteously?

Its just a fashion trend anyway--this woke, cancel culture, that many people follow like sheep--and it serves no positive purpose at all. it might make you feel good for a while, but you are not good. You are just being lazy and self-righteous. My apologies for putting it so bluntly. If you really want to help aboriginal people, stop racism in the police force, stop racism in government, do something to help young men and women find a purpose and avoid drugs and self-destructive behaviour.

We are subjecting some good men to trial by media and trial by the public, when both groups do not even know what has happened yet. Shame, Australia, shame.

Wow.. what a load of complete an utter nonsense..

So.. basically what you are saying is..

Because some indigenous people have a tendancy to have issues with drugs and alcohol, some have domestic violence issues and some have self destructive behavioural tendancies..

That would give the Hawthorn football club, and its coaching staff at the time, the right to take complete control over the lives of some of their indigenous players and confiscate their sim cards, remove them from their families and friends including partners.. and even, if the allegations are correct, demand they terminate a pregnancy.

All in the name of “a few good men looking after them” just incase they become one of these “self destructive behavioural types”..

Fxxk me thats a bad take. Basically a “Lets just all assume that all indigenous people are trouble that we white fella’s need to save from themselves” ideology/.

And people wonder why the stolen generation occured.

You do realise that some white people have drug and alcohol, DV issues and display self destructive behavours too dont you?… maybe our football clubs should take full control of the lives of every player employed by them.. just in case.

 

[Ramify]

People are so used to tabloid clickbait generation, and forgotten (or not know) that when a proper journalist uses quotes it is verbatim as said to them.

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Nah I don't really do Tabloids.

I'm basing my imaginings on nothing more than my own real life interactions with people.

 

[GameofSloanes]

Is it just me or is this story already petering out? Seems like less media than the camp despite the comparative severity of the allegations.

#VICBIAS or is it just lost in the GF media and will rear its head again in a few days?

 

[bootrossbootross]

Is it just me or is this story already petering out? Seems like less media than the camp despite the comparative severity of the allegations.

#VICBIAS or is it just lost in the GF media and will rear its head again in a few days?

The usual vultures parading as journalists stoking the flames for money have now had time to reflect and realise they may be in a tad of strife if the claims turn out to be unfounded, or explained in a reasonable manner. Or more likely their lawyers have demanded for zips on lips.

The vacuum in any new, useful information this creates allows the keyboard warriors to keep their endorphins running through threads such as these, which are completely worthless and do more harm than good, and will naturally die down.

The only appropriate response is to wait and see what an investigation unfolds, which might be hard for those with a need to add their pointless ramblings to the public record on a situation they know nothing about. Much like the Eddie at the pool drivel.

Hopefully the incompetence and lack of transparency of the AFL administration is also targeted in the investigation, as this is the cancer that is eating aussie rules football.

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/hawthorn-racism-investigation-afl-coaches-association-makes-panel-request/news-story/7237d788015857ff8aa6515e41f3c278?fbclid=IwAR2MHBPiLZ_CuzyDV6rDhVYI6cbNwccCkrndelWZA6RVYO1VjpPNTaewC7M

Hawthorn racism investigation: AFL Coaches Association makes panel request​

The AFL Coaches’ Association has called for a football figure to be included on the panel that will investigate the explosive claims surrounding Hawthorn’s alleged treatment of First Nations players.
The league continues to consult with representatives for those who have levelled the startling claims, the AFL Players’ Association and the AFLCA as to the four people - which will include two men and two women who will oversee the external investigation.

The AFLCA - which represents all coaches in the game, including those at the centre of the reported claims Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan - wants people with understanding of football environments to be considered on the panel.

“Football clubs are unique environments. They become a second home for players and coaches are often required to be much more than just football mentors,” AFLCA chief executive Alistair Nicholson

Alistair Nicholson

Age

46

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197cm

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100kg

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Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

3.2

1star

HB

4.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.1

3star

No current season stats available

D

3.6

1star

K

1.4

1star

HB

2.2

2star

M

1.4

2star

T

0.2

3star

said on Monday.

“Coaches are regularly called on to provide advice and support on non-football related issues, particularly with younger players who have left home to join an AFL club.

“It would significantly enhance the investigation if someone who intimately understands that environment and has deep experience in managing the wellbeing of players was included on the panel.”

Both North Melbourne and Brisbane have firmly backed their respective senior coaches over the last 48 hours.

The AFLCA said it supported the league’s call, announced last Wednesday, to initiate an external investigation into “the confronting allegations raised”.

The AFLPA said last week that the investigation should be “well-resourced and wide-ranging in scope”.

Nicholson said both coaches - who have strongly denied the allegations that have been made - had the backing of the association.

“Our thoughts are with the players and their families who have shared their stories, as well as other First Nations people who have been directly or indirectly affected by the publicity around this situation,” he said.

“We also note that both Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan have strongly denied the allegations made. The investigation will allow both coaches to share their version of events and until that investigation is complete and due process has been followed they should be afforded natural justice.

“The AFLCA is continuing to offer both coaches our support with a focus on their personal wellbeing.”

The AFL had hoped to announce the panel last Friday but the process has been delayed because of the consultation negotiations.

 

[Bearded Clam]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/hawthorn-racism-investigation-afl-coaches-association-makes-panel-request/news-story/7237d788015857ff8aa6515e41f3c278?fbclid=IwAR2MHBPiLZ_CuzyDV6rDhVYI6cbNwccCkrndelWZA6RVYO1VjpPNTaewC7M

Hawthorn racism investigation: AFL Coaches Association makes panel request​

What a fxxking joke..

At this point it should be the police, workcover (or worksafe) and fair work Australia doing the investigation now..

If the allegations being made have any truth to them then criminal charges should be layed.. and it should be the police and government agencies doing the investigating..

 

[Ramify]

What a fxxking joke..

At this point it should be the police, workcover (or worksafe) and fair work Australia doing the investigation now..

If the allegations being made have any truth to them then criminal charges should be layed.. and it should be the police and government agencies doing the investigating..

I agree it's a joke, but what Criminal charges do you think could be brought?

 

[Bearded Clam]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/hawthorn/hawthorn-racism-investigation-afl-coaches-association-makes-panel-request/news-story/7237d788015857ff8aa6515e41f3c278?fbclid=IwAR2MHBPiLZ_CuzyDV6rDhVYI6cbNwccCkrndelWZA6RVYO1VjpPNTaewC7M

Hawthorn racism investigation: AFL Coaches Association makes panel request​

From the article;

“Football clubs are unique environments. They become a second home for players and coaches are often required to be much more than just football mentors,” AFLCA chief executive Alistair Nicholson said on Monday.

“Coaches are regularly called on to provide advice and support on non-football related issues, particularly with younger players who have left home to join an AFL club.”/ end quote


Wow.. now if the allegations are true then its definitely a “unique” situation.. a club deciding it should step in and control a young mans life to the point they are controlling every aspect of his life, removing his ability to even contact friends, family and his intimate partner.. and even providing parenting planning advice.. thats fxxkin unique alright.. cult like levels of unique.

And as for “coaches are regularly called on”… more like “coaches may decide to take it upon themselves”..

The lengths some are going to try and rationalise these allegations and somehow make them sound like, if they are true, something close to normal is simply astounding.

Can anyone here actually say they wouldnt be absolutely mortified and bewildered if they turned up to work with good news to share on a pregnancy with workmates and their employer only to end up having to hand over their sim card, being told to leave their missus and also being told to tell her to abort the pregnancy?.. once they shared that news..

 

[Ramify]

From the article;

“Football clubs are unique environments. They become a second home for players and coaches are often required to be much more than just football mentors,” AFLCA chief executive Alistair Nicholson said on Monday.

“Coaches are regularly called on to provide advice and support on non-football related issues, particularly with younger players who have left home to join an AFL club.”/ end quote


Wow.. now if the allegations are true then its definitely a “unique” situation.. a club deciding it should step in and control a young mans life to the point they are controlling every aspect of his life, removing his ability to even contact friends, family and his intimate partner.. and even providing parenting planning advice.. thats fxxkin unique alright.. cult like levels of unique.

And as for “coaches are regularly called on”… more like “coaches may decide to take it upon themselves”..

The lengths some are going to try and rationalise these allegations and somehow make them sound like, if they are true, something close to normal is simply astounding.

Can anyone here actually say they wouldnt be absolutely mortified and bewildered if they turned up to work with good news to share on a pregnancy with workmates and their employer only to end up having to hand over their sim card, being told to leave their missus and also being told to tell her to abort the pregnancy?.. once they shared that news..

I'd be bewildered, mortified, Angry and I'd tell them to straight up go and get ****ed.
No way I'm complying with any of it, at any age or under any circumstance.

Edit Bearded Clam

 

[Bearded Clam]

I agree it's a joke, but what Criminal charges do you think could be brought?

So if you went to work tomorrow and your boss said “look, I’ve got concerns about your family life, and I think we need to make some changes for the betterment of the company… so, handover your personal phone, tell your missus and family you cant see them anymore, oh, and tell her to have an abortion because you are gonna be living with another one of our employees from now on and we’ll tell you who you can see, talk to, where you can go and what you can do”..

You’d be fine with that?..

I can tell you I’d be telling them to get fxxked and I’d be ringing the police to report it.. followed by ringing fair work australia/workcover/my union if I was in one..

 

[macdaddio]

How so? You’ve lost me

He was booed all year

 

[Big Crow]

Is it just me or is this story already petering out? Seems like less media than the camp despite the comparative severity of the allegations.

#VICBIAS or is it just lost in the GF media and will rear its head again in a few days?

Adelaide Camp: Rumours reported as facts twice daily, hanging people out to dry, calling for draft sanctions, fines, you name it.

Hawthorn Scandal: Comparatively less reporting, and a lot of things said about “due process” and “hearing the other side of the story” - Which was never really pushed for by the media in any of the camp stuff.

 

[Ramify]

So if you went to work tomorrow and your boss said “look, I’ve got concerns about your family life, and I think we need to make some changes for the betterment of the company… so, handover your personal phone, tell your missus and family you cant see them anymore, oh, and tell her to have an abortion because you are gonna be living with another one of our employees from now on and we’ll tell you who you can see, talk to, where you can go and what you can do”..

You’d be fine with that?..

I can tell you I’d be telling them to get fxxked and I’d be ringing the police to report it.. followed by ringing fair work australia/workcover/my union if I was in one..

Lol Snap. Read my last post.

No, I was genuinely interested in what Criminal charges you think could be laid? Could easily be something I've overlooked.

 

[Mutineer]

From the article;

“Football clubs are unique environments. They become a second home for players and coaches are often required to be much more than just football mentors,” AFLCA chief executive Alistair Nicholson said on Monday.

“Coaches are regularly called on to provide advice and support on non-football related issues, particularly with younger players who have left home to join an AFL club.”/ end quote


Wow.. now if the allegations are true then its definitely a “unique” situation.. a club deciding it should step in and control a young mans life to the point they are controlling every aspect of his life, removing his ability to even contact friends, family and his intimate partner.. and even providing parenting planning advice.. thats fxxkin unique alright.. cult like levels of unique.

And as for “coaches are regularly called on”… more like “coaches may decide to take it upon themselves”..

The lengths some are going to try and rationalise these allegations and somehow make them sound like, if they are true, something close to normal is simply astounding.

Can anyone here actually say they wouldnt be absolutely mortified and bewildered if they turned up to work with good news to share on a pregnancy with workmates and their employer only to end up having to hand over their sim card, being told to leave their missus and also being told to tell her to abort the pregnancy?.. once they shared that news..

Why you quoting me, I'm not interested in your ranting and raving...

Quote the bloody article FFS.

 

[1970crow]

If that forms part of the investigation so be it.

Right now it isn't.

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That’s why conclusions cannot yet be drawn. What’s occurred wasn’t an investigation, it was merely a collection of experiences from one perspective. Basically these are just complaints at this moment, very serious complaints, but there’s been no form of investigation as it wasn’t in the scope provided by the HFC.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Lol Snap. Read my last post.

No, I was genuinely interested in what Criminal charges you think could be laid? Could easily be something I've overlooked.

I was about to say that!.. you answered my question whilst I was asking it!..

I’m not really the person to comment on exactly what the charges would be.. maybe someone here could.. something like deprevation of liberties or the like?..

Anyway.. that would be up to the police and workcover to decide.. and it would probably be more an investigation workcover would lead..

 

[Bearded Clam]

Why you quoting me, I'm not interested in your ranting and raving...

Quote the bloody article FFS.

Geez, and here I was thinking I was quoting the article and not you..

It was only linked back to you because you linked the article on here for us all to read.. I dont have a newscorp subscription so I cant open it.. had to rely on your comment.

So ease up would ya old fella..

 

[Mutineer]

Geez, and here I was thinking I was quoting the article and not you..

It was only linked back to you because you linked the article on here for us all to read.. I dont have a newscorp subscription so I cant open it.. gad to rely on your comment.

So ease up would ya old fella..
View attachment 1518873

So you have the link to the article and what was contained in the article inside the quote..use it not me for your rants..

 

[Ramify]

I was about to say that!.. you answered my question whilst I was asking it!..

I’m not really the person to comment on exactly what the charges would be.. maybe someone here could.. something like deprevation if liberties or the like?..

Anyway.. that would be up to the police and workcover to decide.. and it would probably be more an investigation workcover would lead..

All good.

It's a tricky one. Vic sports Minister pretty much washed his hands of it immediately, which I thought was a bit weak.
I have a feeling there will well be Safe work involvment and maybe some Employment laws tested, if there isn't already, but I'm not real confident there is any Criminal case to answer based on what's known. I'm sure VicPol will ask some questions but I'm not convinced they will amount to much, unless there exists some more shocking details that have yet to be made public.

 

[1970crow]

This shouldnt be about race though..

If whats alleged has actually occured then its closing in on fxxkin kidnapping!

Regardless of the skin colour of those involved.

How can you take a sim card off someone, force them to live with someone they dont want to, control just about every aspect of their lives including who they are allowed to see and talk to even if it is family and expect that this should just be brushed under the carpet by attending a couple of training courses!..

And thats without even considering they may have told someone to have their unborn fetus aborted.

If any of this is found to have occured how can the police not be involved in the investigation into it?

That should be the case regardless of the skin colours of those involved.

Exactly, how could this not already have been a police investigation years ago?

 

[1970crow]

People are so used to tabloid clickbait generation, and forgotten (or not know) that when a proper journalist uses quotes it is verbatim as said to them.

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I wouldn’t be doubting the journo, he’s just reporting the words spoken to him. It’s the memory of the player/partner that will be subject to further investigation. And context may end up providing some background as to why these kinds of events took place.

 

[1970crow]

Wow.. what a load of complete an utter nonsense..

So.. basically what you are saying is..

Because some indigenous people have a tendancy to have issues with drugs and alcohol, some have domestic violence issues and some have self destructive behavioural tendancies..

That would give the Hawthorn football club, and its coaching staff at the time, the right to take complete control over the lives of some of their indigenous players and confiscate their sim cards, remove them from their families and friends including partners.. and even, if the allegations are correct, demand they terminate a pregnancy.

All in the name of “a few good men looking after them” just incase they become one of these “self destructive behavioural types”..

Fxxk me thats a bad take. Basically a “Lets just all assume that all indigenous people are trouble that we white fella’s need to save from themselves” ideology/.

And people wonder why the stolen generation occured.

You do realise that some white people have drug and alcohol, DV issues and display self destructive behavours too dont you?… maybe our football clubs should take full control of the lives of every player employed by them.. just in case.

I’ve been telling you that you and your type are part of the problem. You make it much easier for the misery to continue.