NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Kram]

What about advising abortion culture to win a game of footy.

The ends justify the means.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Of course the HFC and AFL didnt want the report to go public. No organisation in its right mind would put out a report which makes allegations of human rights abuses against individuals who havent been interviewed as part of the investigation or given any notice of or opportunity to respond to any of the allegations. Interesting though the report got leaked and Jackson tipped off to write his article. Wonder who did it (I think the answer is most likely contained within your post)

No, I never mentioned the victims who are the ones who are most likely to have tipped of Jackson.

 

[nineteen eighty]

There has been numerous mention of the 9 indigenous peoples that have come forward. I wasn't aware that it was 9. Can someone provide me with a breakdown of the 9 (no names of course) please.

 

[Royce Hafey]

I thought it was 3 people
Alot of which seems to be the partner of one of the players.

It's hard to know what to make of the allegations when they are hidden in anonymity.
At the moment to me they are just claims/allegations yet to be proven.

It was 3 people and three partners for a start. Releasing their identity to the likes of you. That wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Royce Hafey]

I'm old enough to remember Bolte. He was the premier who, when asked about appalling conditions faced by residents in mental hospitals, responded: "There's no votes in nuts."

 

[Festerz]

A bit of context here. Cleary is quoting Jeff Kennett at the Hawthorn B&F on allegations against the club.

Jeff Kennett channelling Eddie McGuire's 'this is a great day for the Collingwood Football Club' faux pas:

“The one thing the investigation showed, was we have a safe cultural workplace now. These are issues of the past…”

Jeff Kennett destroying all the good work of his Board in commissioning the Egan Report in the first place.

No Jeff, these are NOT issues of the past. Not for the people who have to keep living them...

 

[Royce Hafey]

A bit of context here. Cleary is quoting Jeff Kennett at the Hawthorn B&F on allegations against the club.

Jeff Kennett channelling Eddie McGuire's 'this is a great day for the Collingwood Football Club' faux pas:

“The one thing the investigation showed, was we have a safe cultural workplace now. These are issues of the past…”

Jeff Kennett destroying all the good work of his Board in commissioning the Egan Report in the first place.

My reply to your former post was not meant as an attack on you. To be honest, I had no idea what you were quoting or why. But I still hold by my comment. "Golliwog" Kennett citing as a mentor the second most egregious premier of a state since the Second World War (second only to Askin as Bolte was not corrupt, simply a reactionary a-hole). BTW, in reply to some of the demented attack monkeys who have accused some of us of being driven by a desire to destroy Clarko (because of Cultural Marxism or something - go check out my avatar!), until these allegations I attributed all the nastiness at Hawthorn to Kennett and suspected that part of the tension between Clarko and Kennett was due to Clarko being a decent bloke about this racism stuff. It would appear that the same was the case for Rioli and his missus. Hence she witnessed "Hawthorn officials" intervening at her own home to separate a player from his partner and blamed it on Jeff. Presumably Clarko was not present. He was too clever for that.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I can understand Hodge wanting to show support to people who were good to him, but there are at least three things wrong with how he approached this.

Firstly on priorities, Hodge has just learnt that the experiences of some of his team mates, and players he captained, were horrific (whether perceived or actual). So what has he chosen to do? He has come out publicly to support the men who allegedly caused so much harm to his team mates and their families. Whether intentional or not, his post would be te-traumatising for the players and their families who were not believed or rightly didn’t feel like they would be believed, and his post had sowed doubts about their experiences.

Secondly, Hodge is white and was about as talented and alpha male as they come. Did he not stop to reflect that maybe, just maybe, people who were different to him had different experiences to him?

Finally, his post shows what an impossible situation those players were in at the time. If this is how their captain responds 10 years later, did they have any chance of being believed or being able to access support at the time?

I think Hodge thought his heart was in the right place when he wrote this, but his heart was only with the coaches who were so good to him, and not at all with the players he captained who had vastly different experiences. I hope he has time to reflect on this choice and grow through the process.

 

[jj15]

Did the player stay with the partner? Or did this end the relationship?

 

[EconomicDecline]

Of course the HFC and AFL didnt want the report to go public. No organisation in its right mind would put out a report which makes allegations of human rights abuses against individuals who havent been interviewed as part of the investigation or given any notice of or opportunity to respond to any of the allegations. Interesting though the report got leaked and Jackson tipped off to write his article. Wonder who did it (I think the answer is most likely contained within your post)

Fundamental misunderstanding of the report you have. Here. I’ll lay it out. And expand on it for all the simpletons

HFC: Hmm. There seems to be some rumblings that our indigenous players historically have felt unwelcome at the club. Let’s investigate that by asking the thoughts of past players so that we can go about creating a more welcoming environment and culture so they feel better supported. Oh gees. There’s some worse things in the report than we anticipated. They may have some issues that may escalate. Better notify the relevant AFL integrity commission to handle that.

In the mean time

Jackson: Just been given a tip off that there’s been some disturbing findings from a report commissioned by the HFC involving indigenous players. I haven’t seen the report but I’ll use the very basics of investigative journalism to determine who those played might be and interview them. Oh you’re happy to share what you’ve gone through in order to bring light to the situation in order for the truth not to be buried by the AFL, but you’d like a degree of anonymity so that you don’t have to relive your trauma by having other less scrupulous journalists harass you, and for the adversarial members of the general public cast aspersions about your character. I can do that. Also to let you know I will have to offer a right of reply to the people with whom you’re making these accusations. Clarkson, Fagan, Burt, et al would you like to comment on this? Hello? Hello? You wish to give no statement at all? Not even that you’re readying a reply? You’re just going to blank me? Ok then. Off to press it is.

Every bloody nuffie

What about Clarko’s feelings??

 

[myblueroan]

We’ll you’ve convinced me. Must be 100% true then. No need to interview Clarkson, just throw the book at him.

Celebrating superiority since 2021.
That's your tag under 'Dee Train'.
Pretty apt.

 

[Ginnivans Island]

Fundamental misunderstanding of the report you have. Here. I’ll lay it out. And expand on it for all the simpletons

HFC: Hmm. There seems to be some rumblings that our indigenous players historically have felt unwelcome at the club. Let’s investigate that by asking the thoughts of past players so that we can go about creating a more welcoming environment and culture so they feel better supported. Oh gees. There’s some worse things in the report than we anticipated. They may have some issues that may escalate. Better notify the relevant AFL integrity commission to handle that.

In the mean time

Jackson: Just been given a tip off that there’s been some disturbing findings from a report commissioned by the HFC involving indigenous players. I haven’t seen the report but I’ll use the very basics of investigative journalism to determine who those played might be and interview them. Oh you’re happy to share what you’ve gone through in order to bring light to the situation in order for the truth not to be buried by the AFL, but you’d like a degree of anonymity so that you don’t have to relive your trauma by having other less scrupulous journalists harass you, and for the adversarial members of the general public cast aspersions about your character. I can do that. Also to let you know I will have to offer a right of reply to the people with whom you’re making these accusations. Clarkson, Fagan, Burt, et al would you like to comment on this? Hello? Hello? You wish to give no statement at all? Not even that you’re readying a reply? You’re just going to blank me? Ok then. Off to press it is.

Every bloody nuffie

What about Clarko’s feelings??

“You have 24 hours to process and formulate a response to this potentially untrue and defamatory allegation before I print a story that will destroy your life.

Sincerely, Alfred A. Prick, ABC News. Click”

 

[myblueroan]

So Caro is taking things out of Sam Mitchell’s book from 4 years ago and trying to pass it off as news. Spare me

It has been added to. And the past quotes are acknowledged. If you don't read the articles why bother commenting?

 

[EconomicDecline]

“You have 24 hours to process and formulate a response to this potentially untrue and defamatory allegation before I print a story that will destroy your life.

Sincerely, Alfred A. Prick, ABC News. Click”

Personally I would have replied that these are very serious allegations and I’d appreciate some time to process what’s been said and formulate a reply that’s considerate of both how the aggrieved feel and how I feel. If this statement is “my statement” that you’ll be printing due to time constraints then I understand as it states that I will reply.

Instead they said * all and were dead silent. But what do I know about making a humble statement. I’m not a coaching messiah.

 

[myblueroan]

I can understand Hodge wanting to show support to people who were good to him, but there are at least three things wrong with how he approached this.

Firstly on priorities, Hodge has just learnt that the experiences of some of his team mates, and players he captained, were horrific (whether perceived or actual). So what has he chosen to do? He has come out publicly to support the men who allegedly caused so much harm to his team mates and their families. Whether intentional or not, his post would be te-traumatising for the players and their families who were not believed or rightly didn’t feel like they would be believed, and his post had sowed doubts about their experiences.

Secondly, Hodge is white and was about as talented and alpha male as they come. Did he not stop to reflect that maybe, just maybe, people who were different to him had different experiences to him?

Finally, his post shows what an impossible situation those players were in at the time. If this is how their captain responds 10 years later, did they have any chance of being believed or being able to access support at the time?

I think Hodge thought his heart was in the right place when he wrote this, but his heart was only with the coaches who were so good to him, and not at all with the players he captained who had vastly different experiences. I hope he has time to reflect on this choice and grow through the process.

It's going to cause a lot more pain and it amplifies how far we have to go with educating ourselves.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Did the player stay with the partner? Or did this end the relationship?

Why do you keep posting this? People have answered you already.

 

[Ginnivans Island]

Personally I would have replied that these are very serious allegations and I’d appreciate some time to process what’s been said and formulate a reply that’s considerate of both how the aggrieved feel and how I feel. If this statement is “my statement” that you’ll be printing due to time constraints then I understand as it states that I will reply.

Instead they said * all and were dead silent. But what do I know about making a humble statement. I’m not a coaching messiah.

I’m sure the journalist that is part of a co-ordinated attack on your character will respond to your kind request in the affirmative.

 

[Bombermania]

I can understand Hodge wanting to show support to people who were good to him, but there are at least three things wrong with how he approached this.

Firstly on priorities, Hodge has just learnt that the experiences of some of his team mates, and players he captained, were horrific (whether perceived or actual). So what has he chosen to do? He has come out publicly to support the men who allegedly caused so much harm to his team mates and their families. Whether intentional or not, his post would be te-traumatising for the players and their families who were not believed or rightly didn’t feel like they would be believed, and his post had sowed doubts about their experiences.

Secondly, Hodge is white and was about as talented and alpha male as they come. Did he not stop to reflect that maybe, just maybe, people who were different to him had different experiences to him?

Finally, his post shows what an impossible situation those players were in at the time. If this is how their captain responds 10 years later, did they have any chance of being believed or being able to access support at the time?

I think Hodge thought his heart was in the right place when he wrote this, but his heart was only with the coaches who were so good to him, and not at all with the players he captained who had vastly different experiences. I hope he has time to reflect on this choice and grow through the process.

Bring white doesn't stop someone from experiencing discrimination and for that reason Hodge should have an awareness, if a person is entrusted with a leadership role then they should have interpersonal skills. The reports about Clarko micromanaging Sam Mitchell and Hodges comments would suggest that he supported Clarko's management style and has a lack of awareness of the negative effects of Clarko's management style on these players and their partners.

 

[PrinceCharles]

I’m sure the journalist that is part of a co-ordinated attack on your character will respond to your kind request in the affirmative.

He literally offered them more time...

 

[The_Gambler]

how long until someone sells their story? There’s got to be more than just lawyers to make a profit here

 

[JDavey]

I call it what it is
You all just want blood and to see someone destroyed.

We all want to find the truth too... But the key difference is most tend to believe victims are acting in good faith and are therefore not providing completely fabricated stories.

This combined with multiple separate accounts as well as email and text evidence that all seem to support the same view that Clarko and others frequently overstepped their boundaries as coaches into players personal life's that despite "best intentions" at best resulted in a number of misunderstandings that harmed individuals and at worst is a string of workplace bullying, harassment and racism.

There are few (if any?) that think they should be completed canned without further investigation - you're arguing to a strawman and the pretending to "see it like it is" while ignoring all available evidence we currently have at our disposal.

Conveniently no one is yet to he cancelled. In fact were all waiting to hear what they have to say...

 

[EconomicDecline]

I’m sure the journalist that is part of a co-ordinated attack on your character will respond to your kind request in the affirmative.

More unhinged conspiracy thinking that started from your very first post. So it’s obviously an alt you’re running. The question now is; which Hawthorn or North supporter you are.

 

[yeahmate]

Fundamental misunderstanding of the report you have. Here. I’ll lay it out. And expand on it for all the simpletons

HFC: Hmm. There seems to be some rumblings that our indigenous players historically have felt unwelcome at the club. Let’s investigate that by asking the thoughts of past players so that we can go about creating a more welcoming environment and culture so they feel better supported. Oh gees. There’s some worse things in the report than we anticipated. They may have some issues that may escalate. Better notify the relevant AFL integrity commission to handle that.

In the mean time

Jackson: Just been given a tip off that there’s been some disturbing findings from a report commissioned by the HFC involving indigenous players. I haven’t seen the report but I’ll use the very basics of investigative journalism to determine who those played might be and interview them. Oh you’re happy to share what you’ve gone through in order to bring light to the situation in order for the truth not to be buried by the AFL, but you’d like a degree of anonymity so that you don’t have to relive your trauma by having other less scrupulous journalists harass you, and for the adversarial members of the general public cast aspersions about your character. I can do that. Also to let you know I will have to offer a right of reply to the people with whom you’re making these accusations. Clarkson, Fagan, Burt, et al would you like to comment on this? Hello? Hello? You wish to give no statement at all? Not even that you’re readying a reply? You’re just going to blank me? Ok then. Off to press it is.

Every bloody nuffie

What about Clarko’s feelings??

Wheres my misunderstanding of the report in my post, thats exactly how it went. I have no doubt HFC thought they would do the report as a PR piece to look proactive over the very public spat with Rioli and generally lots of supporters unhappy with Kennett and the way the club looked over Rioli's exit. They probably thought they'd hear some historic complaints and grievances that they could then wave around to members and the public and say look how progressive we are as a club and how they'd put in place better welfare, etc, etc. Instead they get back a hand grenade alleging human rights abuse and demanding immediate compensation be paid to numerous victims. I can just imagine the board meeting after they get back that draft report haha. No doubt legal advice would have told them do not release the report without further investigation and interviewing Clarkson and other accused to allow them to respond. I suspect HFC had no real appetite at that point to commission a follow up investigation of it ex employees and prior favorite sons Clarkson, Fagan and Burt (imagine how that would have gone down) so they tossed it over to the AFL to handle as all too hard. Someone at that point wasnt happy with that as an outcome and has promptly leaked it to Jackson. Not too hard to guess who i would suggest.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

The Burgoyne not knowing being sone smoking gun is ridiculous.

Do people assume all aboriginals talk to each other about everything and are some homogenous mass that all think and act the same?

1. You have had several aboriginal players/ex players saying it's true despite having no relationship with the alleged parties. Eddie Betts even said he will "always believe a brother." Is that ok?

2. Burgoyne was an indigenous leader not just at hawthorn, but in the AFL. The fact he didn't know is pretty telling that there is a fair bit of smoke and mirrors coming from the media about this story.

 

[EastcoastDocker]

Not just putting out a statement but putting a statement out on social media with restrictions on who can respond and comment.

View attachment 1523394


A statement that deliberately ignores both the context of why Hawthorn Football Club engaged an independent reviewer to seek the views of past first nations players in the first place and the findings it contains (and subsequently explored in depth by an ABC report) about the experiences while at the Hawthorn Football Club between 2010 and 2016.

A statement that does nothing but seek to direct attention away from the subject matter of the review - to listen and learn from the experiences of first nations people within the AFL Club environment and to take action to improve the Hawthorn Football Club to make it a culturally safe place for First Nations players and staff in the future.

A statement that ignores the broader context of documented racism within AFL Clubs by officials, players, coaches, commentators and supporters going back decades.

'My experience with these men is that they only ever wanted the best for me and my family'. Hodge tells the world.

FFS it's statement that not just 'fans the flames' but shines yet another spotlight on the fact that many within the AFL still don't get it.

Luke Hodge has one of the greatest footy minds in modern AFL history, one of the most decorated captains of all time. Nothing can take away from his onfield leadership and results.

The fact that a lot of these happening occur during his time as captain and his statement today does ask the question, where was the Captain in all of this? In 2013 a player 'allegedly' tells his teammates he's having a kid, has an engagement party to occur during the week. Next minute he's cancelled the engagement party, is living with one of the coaches and reportedly has a deterioration in his mental health. I find it surprising that the club captain is none the wiser. Was there any 'hey mate bit of a hectic week is everything ok?'

Where was the support for Cyril. I would have thought that the club captain is often a conduit between the coaches and the playing group and perhaps to a lessor extent the administration and the playing group. Why did players not feel comfortable going to the skipper?

Why has a players partner contacted so many different people at the club but not the club captain. Where is the support for former indigenous teammates now? Has Hodge reached out to his former teammates or has he chosen loyalties already? Because if he's done that now it should come as no surprise that the players did not come to him in his capacity as captain.

North Melbourne find themselves in a position where they maybe choosing between perceived chance of onfield success or doing what is right in light of a major controversy. This has happened once before at North. They chose to step away from the best player in the comp and arguably the GOAT in Carey. I admire Glenn Archer to this day for the way he conducted himself throughout and North Melbourne for the way they conducted themselves. I admire the way Jason McCartney was given every chance to play just one last game. North haven't won a flag since the King left, they may not win one for another 30yrs, but they have stood for something.

And because of that they didn't fold, they didn't get relocated, they got themselves out of a hole off field.. because they stood for something. On field success comes and goes in varying degrees. Equalization through the draft and salary cap makes sure of that. Clarko may get you a few extra wins in the short term but is it really worth being on the wrong side of this over?